MCT Moms - When do you begin and other ??s

[abrightmom]

Do you begin MCT in 3rd or 4th grade? From the outside looking in it seems ideal to wait until 4th for the full benefit.

 

What do you use in K-3 then? I'm thinking WWE and ???? for grammar (FLL or GWG?).

 

Do you use anything else for writing and grammar WITH MCT? Is MCT missing anything that WTMers consider important?

 

4 level analysis vs diagramming? Do these accomplish the same purpose or are they different in their intent? I don't know a lot about either one other than perusing MCT samples of 4 level analysis and listening to SWB explain the benefits of using diagramming as a diagnostic tool. :001_smile:

 

Thanks! Still fleshing it allllllll out...

[Surfside Academy]

I'm using Grammar Island with a 4th grader and a bright 2nd grader, although I didn't begin until 1/2 through our school year. My 2nd grader hasn't had any problems with it. In fact, he seems to be thriving. He's retaining so much more than when we used GWG.

 

I will say that we do most of the exercises orally. We'll finish out Island next year and definitely continue on to the Town level. I know at some point soon however the writing especially will be a little too advanced for him so I'll have to slow him down.

 

I use WWE with them all and I'll probably supplement FLL 3 with him next year. My oldest went through FLL 4.

[walkermamaof4]

My 2nd grader loved it and learned so much. He did WWE and FLL first.

[Penelope]

Do you begin MCT in 3rd or 4th grade? From the outside looking in it seems ideal to wait until 4th for the full benefit.

We used much of Island for third grade. The content was no problem for third. We had done FLL and WWE 1 and 2. We did some of the MCT writing assignments from Sentence Island. They tended to be on the creative side, though, and early in the year my son wasn't as ready for those. Now I pick out one every now and then and give it to him, and he enjoys it. That said, see comments below. ;)

 

 

Do you use anything else for writing and grammar WITH MCT? Is MCT missing anything that WTMers consider important?

 

The consensus seems to be that it is missing some things at the first two levels. I have only used the first, read through the books of the second (Town) and read all over the boards about Island, Town, and Voyage.

 

It is more a grammar program than a writing program at this level IMO. Perhaps it is assuming naturally organized writers, or maybe it assumes the children have had other instruction in mechanics (punctuation, capitalization) and in organizing paragraphs. It could be that since it is written for a classroom, it is assuming more of the teacher. But, for example, Paragraph Town talks a lot about what makes a good paragraph, but there is not much in the way of instruction or exercises in how to write one.

 

This year I tried several things, but mainly used WWE3 and other WTM style summaries, and a bit of Writing Strands and Killgallon. The writing of Sentence Island would never be enough writing for third grade for an entire school year for us.

 

4 level analysis vs diagramming? Do these accomplish the same purpose or are they different in their intent? I don't know a lot about either one other than perusing MCT samples of 4 level analysis and listening to SWB explain the benefits of using diagramming as a diagnostic tool. :001_smile:

 

 

I agree with SWB on this one. One thing I'm not sure on, though, is if it is necessary to do beginning diagramming with third and fourth graders. I guess the theory is that if you start it that early, the children won't be hit with it all at once in sixth grade. I did not have any trouble with diagramming in grammar beginning in middle school, but I remember that lots of kids did. I'm kind of on the fence about doing the super slow incremental approach with diagramming.

 

Either way, it's easy enough to add a diagramming book, or if you know how to diagram, to also diagram the sentences in the MCT Practice books.

[abrightmom]

Thanks for the replies ladies...still trying to figure this MCT thing out. It looks fantastic but boy oh boy is it expensive!!!! I think the format is a superb fit for my oldest son....

 

We are going to try The Sentence Family first as we're wrapping up FLL 2. I hear that's a GREAT lead in to MCT. It will give me some time to ponder and pray for funds :D.

[....]

Do you begin MCT in 3rd or 4th grade? From the outside looking in it seems ideal to wait until 4th for the full benefit.

 

What do you use in K-3 then? I'm thinking WWE and ???? for grammar (FLL or GWG?).

 

Do you use anything else for writing and grammar WITH MCT? Is MCT missing anything that WTMers consider important?

 

4 level analysis vs diagramming? Do these accomplish the same purpose or are they different in their intent? I don't know a lot about either one other than perusing MCT samples of 4 level analysis and listening to SWB explain the benefits of using diagramming as a diagnostic tool. :001_smile:

 

Thanks! Still fleshing it allllllll out...

 

I strongly believe that late 3rd/early 4th is the best time to start the Grammar Island series. There is a lot of information in those books. I could see a 2nd grader or even a 3rd grader just forgetting all the terms/content :D (even I forget the content :tongue_smilie:).

 

Here's the LA sequence for my 6 yro up to 5th gr:

 

1st grade: SWO A or B, WWE 1 (start in Jan)

2nd grade: SWO, WWE 1 and 2 (Jan), PLL, GWG 2

3rd grade: SWO, WWE2 and 3, PLL, GWG 3

4th grade: SWO, MCT Grammar Island series, Writing Tales 1

5th grade: SWO, MCT Town series, Writing Tales 2

 

We also do a lot of WTM writing (notebooking, 5th gr should start literary essay-one level outline - nonfiction summary - throughout the week).

 

As far as diagramming, I hate diagramming. I was a science major in college. :D Growing with Grammar covers diagramming, so we add that in. Also, GWG takes my kids 5-10 minutes - no kidding. And, it's a little extra writing for them (which is good).

[....]

Thanks for the replies ladies...still trying to figure this MCT thing out. It looks fantastic but boy oh boy is it expensive!!!! I think the format is a superb fit for my oldest son....

 

We are going to try The Sentence Family first as we're wrapping up FLL 2. I hear that's a GREAT lead in to MCT. It will give me some time to ponder and pray for funds :D.

 

It's expensive, but you only buy it once and you can pass it down to all the kids. You could buy a couple of books at a time until you have them all, too. You use the grammar book first and start the others later. They have a schedule on their website.

[whitestavern]

Do you begin MCT in 3rd or 4th grade? From the outside looking in it seems ideal to wait until 4th for the full benefit.

 

What do you use in K-3 then? I'm thinking WWE and ???? for grammar (FLL or GWG?).

 

Do you use anything else for writing and grammar WITH MCT? Is MCT missing anything that WTMers consider important?

 

4 level analysis vs diagramming? Do these accomplish the same purpose or are they different in their intent? I don't know a lot about either one other than perusing MCT samples of 4 level analysis and listening to SWB explain the benefits of using diagramming as a diagnostic tool. :001_smile:

 

Thanks! Still fleshing it allllllll out...

 

I began Island level with my ds in third and he loved it, and he did really great with it. Once we finished that and began the Practice book, I did start FLL3 2x/week so he could learn diagramming. I think the 4 level analysis and diagramming are both important. I don't think the writing is enough is MCT so we're doing WT1, which he also likes and does well with. This is important for me to note because he is my math/science kid; language arts are not his strong suit. So finding something he likes and does well with is wonderful!

[Dana]

We used Island level in 3rd grade. We'll be starting Town with 4th.

I'm also doing WWE and think it picks up some of the mechanics that aren't in MCT.

 

I like diagramming.

With Practice Island, I had my son draw arrows from each adjective and adverb pointing to the word they modified. I had him put prepositional phrases in parentheses and draw an arrow to what it modifies as well. I have Rex Barks (can get at amazon) for additional diagramming practice.

 

I think the 4-level analysis is a great first step towards diagramming. Doing the analysis first leads right into a diagram. I do think indicating modifiers should be done with MCT but it isn't.

 

My son was always pleased when I pulled out MCT last year. He's sad that Mud isn't in the next level.

[catz]

 

My son was always pleased when I pulled out MCT last year. He's sad that Mud isn't in the next level.

 

I bet he'll love Queequack! :D

 

I think there's real value in having a child being able to read and write very comfortably before starting MCT. I did Island level with my oldest at 3rd grade who was well beyond grade level in everything and we had a great year - we just added in more writing/journalling. My kindergartner tagged along and loved the story, but she couldn't apply the principals to her writing so it didn't stick. We are finishing Town level now and are set to move to next level in the fall. The other thing about starting too early is then you'll need to fill in because it ramps up fast. I have no regrets about starting in 3rd grade with a kid that could have started sooner. I think it has "stuck" better and he's been able to apply more. I just invent more writing assignments based on the principals we're covering in MCT.

[abrightmom]

I strongly believe that late 3rd/early 4th is the best time to start the Grammar Island series. There is a lot of information in those books. I could see a 2nd grader or even a 3rd grader just forgetting all the terms/content :D (even I forget the content :tongue_smilie:).

 

Here's the LA sequence for my 6 yro up to 5th gr:

 

1st grade: SWO A or B, WWE 1 (start in Jan)

2nd grade: SWO, WWE 1 and 2 (Jan), PLL, GWG 2

3rd grade: SWO, WWE2 and 3, PLL, GWG 3

4th grade: SWO, MCT Grammar Island series, Writing Tales 1

5th grade: SWO, MCT Town series, Writing Tales 2

 

We also do a lot of WTM writing (notebooking, 5th gr should start literary essay-one level outline - nonfiction summary - throughout the week).

 

As far as diagramming, I hate diagramming. I was a science major in college. :D Growing with Grammar covers diagramming, so we add that in. Also, GWG takes my kids 5-10 minutes - no kidding. And, it's a little extra writing for them (which is good).

 

This is my thinking as well and why I decided to start The Sentence Island this summer and wait on MCT. My plan is looking very similar to yours actually.... it involves WWE, MCT, WT and something else for grammar for now. I pulled out PLL yesterday in fact (MFW ECC is on the table for fall) because it is lovely and I adore it. I am hoping to do WTM style writing within MFW.

 

Then again, maybe none of that will pan out :001_smile:. I did order The Sentence Island though and told DH that MCT will require selling a body part so to plan on that for the New Year.

[fourcatmom]

I have a question about starting MCT as well. My girls are going into 4th and 5th next year. I was thinking of Grammar Island for my 4th grader and Grammar Town for my 5th grader. Is that reasonable or are you suppose to start with Island and work through each book regardless of grade level?

 

Also if I supplement with WT1 and 2 can I start the 4th in book 1 and the 5th in book 2 or do I start them both in book 1?

 

Also, do any of these programs cover cursive? If not, is there a specific program/book that you use to continue to teach and practice.

 

Thanks,

Edited May 26, 2011 by fourcatmom

[abrightmom]

Michele,

 

I have NO experience to offer you at this point so listen in for more sage advice. However, I would be inclined to start my kiddos at the same level and then assess. It's a lot of work to teach two huge programs at two different levels unless you NEED to. Perhaps you should try WT1 and the Island Level with both kids and then see how they handle it. :001_smile:

[fourcatmom]

Thank You,

 

I guess I just assume that since they are different grades, I should use different products and that maybe some of it is repeat but I could start with level 1 in each and move forward to level 2 as needed.