Help me understand narration better, please?

[melissel]

I'm not entirely sure I understand narration as presented in the SOTW guides and WWE, and here's why:

 

Today we read a passage from WWE 2 about Alexander the Great that came from SOTW1. It talks about how he wants to conquer the Persian Empire so he meets the Persians with his cavalry and forces them back. Then he stops in a city and sees the Gordian knot, asks its purpose, and slices it in half. He goes on to fulfill the prophecy, conquering the rest of Asia Minor, traveling down to Egypt to conquer and become pharaoh, sweeping back into Mesopotamia, and truly becoming Alexander the Great.

 

DD8 narrated it like this:

 

"Alexander the Great conquered Persia. He cut the Gordian Knot in half and conquered Asia Minor. Then he conquered Egypt and was crowned pharaoh."

 

I think it's a decent summary of important points in the story--that is, the successive conquests and one part of the Gordian Knot story. But here's where I get confused though. The three sample narrations given in the WWE workbook all focus on the Gordian Knot part of the story in varying degrees of detail. Why, with all the rest of the information given throughout the passage, should DD have focused so strongly on the Gordian Knot?

 

I'm not sure I know how to teach narration correctly. I'm often confused by the examples that are given versus what I feel is a good summary of the passage we read. Am I wrong in thinking that a narration is just a summary by another name? Am I teaching DD incorrectly? Also, I've seen people say that they have their kids do narration in a variety of ways: just having them tell what the child remembers about the story, letting them narrate a long paragraph, looking for just one sentence, looking for lots of detail, looking for less detail and more overview, etc. Is there a "definitive guide" to narration somewhere that I missed seeing? Can you point me to it?

 

TIA!

[Penelope]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the summary.

 

I don't remember if the WWE2 book said they were looking for something in particular with certain stories. I think the point of that story was, though, that there was a reason that Alexander cut the Gordian Knot. It might be a good idea to tell the reader what the Gordian Knot was, before saying that he cut it. KWIM?

 

In WWE3 there is often a suggestion of what type of narration to give. Sometimes it is a narrative summary, sometimes it will be a descriptive summary or a description of one particular part of the story. Sometimes it will ask one particular question. I have not done WWE4 yet, but from looking at it and seeing the progression, the goal by the end of WWE is to write a paragraph with a main idea and supporting details. At some point in the workbooks, it transitions into asking for one sentence summarizing the passage. And then adding 3 more sentences telling more about that. I can't remember if that happens at the end of WWE2 or if it is in 3. It seems like we've been doing 3 forever, since I sidetracked us into so many other things this year!

[Critterfixer]

What a coincidence..we did that chapter yesterday!:001_smile: Not from WWE of course, just as a part of history.

 

I suspect the focus on the Gordian knot would be that is is a pronounced story element, which makes for a more literary narration. You could have a narration on the same passage with a fact-oriented student and just get a synopsis of the countries conquered and in what order.

 

I'm not sure I know how to teach narration correctly. I'm often confused by the examples that are given versus what I feel is a good summary of the passage we read. Am I wrong in thinking that a narration is just a summary by another name? Am I teaching DD incorrectly? Also, I've seen people say that they have their kids do narration in a variety of ways: just having them tell what the child remembers about the story, letting them narrate a long paragraph, looking for just one sentence, looking for lots of detail, looking for less detail and more overview, etc. Is there a "definitive guide" to narration somewhere that I missed seeing? Can you point me to it?

 

 

I have yet to find a great resource for teaching the skill of narration, but I get better ideas from Charlotte Mason sites on ways to do it. I break it down like this:

 

Descriptive narrations--these would be a retelling of the story using story form and a similar style to the author. I'm not particularly fond of this style because it requires creativity, and not every child is poetic and creative in their writing.

 

Outline narrations--focuses on the facts. Names. Places. Dates if applicable. Order of events. Eventually will get into causes of events. For the story of the Gordian Knot I told my children that the story illustrates Alexander's unique ways of solving problems, thinking outside the box, as it were.

 

Summary narrations--These can be difficult, especially if there is a lot of detail in the text. Here the child would pick out the main points only and condense the entire work into a basic two sentence statement about what the passage was about.

 

Currently I am asking for more Outline narrations from my ds7 boys. For SOTW we usually stop after a paragraph or so and I outline it for them to show them how we can condense two or three pages into one page. Then I would pick out one section and have them attempt it. It's a process.

[Virg]

:bigear:

[michelle l]

I am NO expert, but I see narration in SWB's and Charlotte Mason's terms as two different things. With WWE, I think narration is an oral summary -- it seems to focus on teaching the student how to summarize. It is in order to teach a skill. In a CM approach, narration seems to be more a retelling of all the student remembers, in his or her own words, with the idea that with the telling of it the information really becomes the student's own. He has to think it through in his own mind, decide which details to include, what order to present it in, etc. The student is having to make sense of the information and understand it more deeply The point seems to be more both cementing the information for the student, as well as providing an opportunity for the student to think more critically about the information.

 

Just my thoughts. Still fairly new and I could be wrong!

[Critterfixer]

With WWE, I think narration is an oral summary -- it seems to focus on teaching the student how to summarize. It is in order to teach a skill. In a CM approach, narration seems to be more a retelling of all the student remembers, in his or her own words, with the idea that with the telling of it the information really becomes the student's own. He has to think it through in his own mind, decide which details to include, what order to present it in, etc. The student is having to make sense of the information and understand it more deeply The point seems to be more both cementing the information for the student, as well as providing an opportunity for the student to think more critically about the information.

 

I do think that WWE leans to an oral summary approach. However, I think that the skills needed to come up with the summary do have to be taught. At least I have needed to show both of my sons how to pick up important elements to arrive at the summary.

With the CM approach there seems to be an interest in keeping the original flow and feel of the story. Nothing wrong with that, but it can be difficult to do if one's vocabulary isn't up to it.

 

My understanding is that SWB does have an audio lecture on narration, although I don't have the means to listen to it. So much of my ramblings are what I've put together on my own. It seems to work for my sons and has improved their narration skills substantially. Three weeks ago they were gnashing their teeth over narration, and now they want to do it first thing in the morning before math, even the DS who has a positive dislike of all things auditory.