pgr Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I have read that the MCT series was written for children starting in 3rd (and advanced children at that); do the books just go in sequence through the elementary and middle years? Is grade 3 when most start with this series? What about Killgallon? It seems there is a grammar book and a writing book, but I can't find the level that the elementary version is geared at. Are there certain skills/concepts that should be mastered before starting (either or both of) these books? (I'm not sure how I think I'm going to teach this if I'm having so much trouble figuring out how the programs even work. Ahem. :blushing:) Thank you! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) We started MCT in 3rd and had no problems after the grammar foundation from FLL1/2. We use Sentence Composing for Elementary. It does introduce grammar terms such as participial phrases, appositive phrases, that we have not covered in grammar yet. I don't think it is necessary to fully understand these terms to use them in sentences, but at the same time, I don't think this book is geared toward the average lower elementary child. We are using it in third and doing well with it, yet I would not want to have used it any earlier than this year, and I have a feeling that even next year would be fine and maybe even preferable. But I will follow this book with Story Grammar for next semester. Edited April 24, 2011 by Penelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satori Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 We started MCT last weekend. I was a bit leery to start so early, as it says its for "gifted" 3rd grade or 4th grade, but I heard a few other families who started it early. My daughter was at about a 3rd grade (or more) grammar/writing/spelling level. I have the whole MCT Island books and think it will work out great! She loves reading these books with me! I also have Killgallon, but I want a little more grammar work and then we'll probably start that this summer or next fall, or perhaps even wait later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCamper Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 We started in 3rd grade with children who were advanced in reading and almost no grammar background. It is a terrific fit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'm planning to start my younger kids in MCT "island" whenever they finish FLL 1/2. They'll start Killgallon Sentence Composing for Elementary after they finish MCT "island" or perhaps after Grammar Town. My oldest didn't do the "island" level so I'm not 100% sure if it covers enough of the grammatical concepts needed for Killgallon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I have them start MCT LA at the end of 3rd. There's a ton of information in his books and I'm afraid it's info overload for a younger kid and also, there's the "need to know" theory. Do they really need to know how to do 4 level analysis any earlier? :D We like the program so far, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 If you want to take a peek, I wrote a review of Killgallon elementary covering that... http://nancextoo.livejournal.com/190396.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I base the start of Killgallon on the level of grammar introduced. R&S3 would allow for you to start mid-year or end-year. However, you will not complete the entire workbook based on the grammar needed from R&S4. Actually, the workbooks will be completed over more than one grade level in elementary if you start this early. If you are in R&S 5 (or equal rigorous grammar study), you can begin Killgallon Elementary Sentence Composing and complete within that same year. The grammar student needs an understanding of clauses in addition to being familiar and able to identify the parts of speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I just started Island last week with 7.5 yo dd (and 5 yo tag along brother - I'm sure we will redo when he is older). So, I don't have much experience but a couple thoughts. DD knew how to write sentences. She understood subject/predicate, proper capitalization and end marks. After reading through Sentence Island, I decided she should also know how to write paragraphs and dialogue so I taught those things, in a very basic way, first too. JMO and no actual experience yet, but I believe these things will be my prerequisites for starting Island, not age. I *plan* to use Town after Island, then go to Killgallon's Sentence Composing. CrimsonWife, do you have Island yet? I haven't seen SC but looking at NanceXToo's review, I'm thinking it might be better to go through Town first. I'm sort of copying your plan:blush: so I'll be :bigear: to see what you decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgr Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Thank you so much for all the replies - that gives me a much better idea of how to plan this! I'm almost wondering if I should buy the Island series at some point and wait for it to be a good/appropriate point to introduce it... Hmmm. Is it worth getting the "set"? As far as incorporating Killgallon - am I understanding this correctly? Sentence Composing should come before Story Grammar? MCT Island should come before Sentence Composing? A basic foundation in grammar should come before Island? Finally, I've seen so many posts about trying to find Killgallon used in order to save money. Saving money always makes sense, but the books I'm finding on Amazon are under $20 - am I looking at the right resources? It seems other resources cost a similar amount, but there seems (to me) to be more people talking about trying to find Killgallon cheaper... :confused: Thank you, everyone!!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 CrimsonWife, do you have Island yet? I haven't seen SC but looking at NanceXToo's review, I'm thinking it might be better to go through Town first. I'm sort of copying your plan:blush: so I'll be :bigear: to see what you decide. My DS is still in the first half of FLL 1/2 so I probably won't get MCT "island" until at least 2nd semester of next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The issue w/ starting Island early, in 2nd or 3rd grade is that then you don't have a book each year. Most 3rd/4th graders are not ready for Town level writing. And most 4th/5th graders are not ready for Voyage level writing. Heck, many have bought Voyage level for their 7th graders and had to drop down to Town level for the writing. My then 1st grader did all of Island level only b/c his older brother, then 4th grade was doing it. He had no issues what so ever. The only grammar he had had was about a fourth of FLL1/2. He is advanced. This year, as a 2nd grader, he did all of the Town level materials including 4level analysis mostly on his own, except Paragraph Town. He sat in on the discussion/reading of Paragraph Town and had no issue w/ the concepts, I just didn't require him to do that level of writing. He's writing very simple paragraphs right now - topic sentence, 3 supporting details, and a closing sentence as well as finishing up WWE3. So next year for 3rd grade, I'm not sure what he will do. Likely, he will go into Growing with Grammar - perhaps GWG5 given what he knows about grammar from MCT. The other option is Advanced Language Lessons once it's available and I can see what is covered in it. Probably as a 4th grader, this DS will do Paragraph Town again, reading through it and doing the writing assignments. As far as Killgallon, my 5th grader is finishing up Sentence Composing for Elementary School this year. Next year, we'll do Story Grammar for Elementary School. I wouldn't do Sent Composing before Town level so that SC isn't the first time DC is learning about participials, appositives, adj and adv phrases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Is it worth getting the "set"? As far as incorporating Killgallon - am I understanding this correctly? Sentence Composing should come before Story Grammar? I think a few have posted that SC is easier than SG, hence doing SC first makes a good idea. SG doesn't use the parts of the sentence like SC does. It just calls everything tools. MCT Island should come before Sentence Composing? Personally, I'd do Grammar Town before SC. I'd prefer my DC to have an introduction to participles, gerunds, adj/adv phrases, and appositive phrases before doing SC. I don't recall those being introduced in Island level but I could be mistaken. A basic foundation in grammar should come before Island? My DC only did about 1/4 of FLL1/2 prior to starting Island. He was fine with it. I think a few here have done it w/out any prior grammar and was fine. I think it would depend on the child. Finally, I've seen so many posts about trying to find Killgallon used in order to save money. Saving money always makes sense, but the books I'm finding on Amazon are under $20 - am I looking at the right resources? It seems other resources cost a similar amount, but there seems (to me) to be more people talking about trying to find Killgallon cheaper... :confused: I didn't try to find it used. My DS didn't write in the book however so I'll have it for my next son. Thank you, everyone!!! :) hth, Capt Uhura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 9yodd started the Island series the second half of third grade. She is a strong reader, but hasn't had much exposure to grammar. She really enjoys the program. It doesn't seem challenging at all, although she has learned a lot. FWIW, my 7yo is generally in the room when we are reading aloud, and she has no interest in following along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgr Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Thank you for the advice, reviews, and replies - I'm finally understanding this! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I wouldn't do Sent Composing before Town level so that SC isn't the first time DC is learning about participials, appositives, adj and adv phrases. Yeah, I just went through Grammar Town again last night (on deck to begin soon) and saw that the phrases are introduced in this level. They definitely are not in Island. Because of Sentence Composing, though, my ds has learned what these are, even without doing Town, so I think either way can work out. Sentence Composing has been very helpful here as far as increasing sentence variety in his narrations and original writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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