Don't want to push DD...

[Calliope84]

Maybe I shouldn't be posting in this forum just yet, but I will anyway.

DH and I know we want to homeschool our kids. We only have one DD so far and she is only 4 months. I am reading The Well-Trained Mind on my Kindle. It talks about starting from birth when it comes to teaching your child, but I am worried about pushing DD.

 

DD is only 4 months, but she LOVES books, loves being read to and wants to try to turn the pages (and put them in her mouth, of course.) She sits completely unassisted, rolls both ways, likes me to help her pull to stand and is trying to crawl already. She was very alert at birth and has been ever since. She has this cone sorting toy and she sits there and takes every one of the shapes off of it, one and a time and puts them down. That toy and books are her favorite. She babbles, but not that much. So, in short, she seems to be somewhat advanced for her age.

 

I tested as gifted when I was a child, but my parents decided to keep me in the regular class because they were worried I'd be too challenged / frustrated. They decided they'd rather I be the best in the class. School was a really horrible experience for me and it killed my love for learning until I had an amazing humanities teacher at a community college when I was 22. I don't want this to happen to my kids. I often feel like 13 years of my life were wasted and that I have so much catching up to do.

 

I also don't want to be a pushy mom. How can I strike a balance between showing / teaching my DD things that are developmentally appropriate for her (and challenging enough) while avoiding pushing her? I worry about accidentally holding her back, too, like my parents did to me.

[Jenny in Florida]

Those are very big questions, and ones for which I suspect each family needs to find its own answers for each child.

 

My husband and I were both "gifted" kids. Neither of us had parents who were especially interested in our educations. And, in my case, my parents kept me in public school essentially as a political statement. (My father taught at a community college that was part of the county school district, and they worried they would look like hypocrites if their own child was in a special or private school.)

 

So, when we had our daughter, we knew she was bright, but we didn't really have any frame of reference for understanding exactly how gifted she is/was. What we opted to do was just play every day by ear, give her as many opportunities as we could to explore things that interested her while letter her be a kid as much as possible.

 

We started homeschooling lightly with kindergarten-level materials (because that seemed like where she was) when she was three, working just an hour or so just two or three mornings a week. We read aloud from the time she was born. We chose good quality books and limited the kinds of media she watched. (We censored less for content than for quality.) We always spoke to her as though we respected her intelligence (which we did and do), played good music, took her on field trips, etc. For the most part, we stopped as soon as any of it wasn't fun.

 

She was reading Harry Potter before her sixth birthday, and the first CDs she begged to buy were Mozart. She loved Shakespeare by age four or five and had her own season tickets for the local classical theatre when she was eight. She had an early, intense interest in history, especially ancient Egypt, ancient China and imperial Russia. We took her to visit a museum exhibit of Faberge eggs when she was five, and she ended up (gently, politely) correcting one of the guides who mis-identified portraits of the royal family. Two years later, we had a similar experience touring an exhibit of ancient Egyptian artifacts.

 

When she went through a phase of having trouble sleeping when she was seven-ish, she used to love to sit up in the middle of the night listening to me read aloud from whatever adult-level books I had available about any of those subjects. She joined the local anthropology society when she was eight and was an active member for the next three or four years.

 

At age 12, she left home for a residential early entrance college program 800 miles away. She's done well and is graduating next month.

 

My son is an entirely different animal. He had no patience with any seat work at all until he was maybe seven and didn't manage Frog and Toad until about that same age. He never enjoyed museums except the children's areas.

 

Nonetheless, we've consistently tried to meet him where he is and encourage him to stretch. His favorite thing to do when he was younger was take apart old electronics. From what I can tell, he has never played with a toy in the way it was intended to be used, choosing instead to take apart and re-make them for his own purposes.

 

He turned 13 in March and is now doing a mix of middle and high school courses. He reads more than anyone I know other than me and is currently rehearsing to perform in his fourth opera. He's also a pretty fantastic tap dancer and sings with a classical choir. (But his true love is musical theatre.)

 

He now loves museums if the exhibits include weaponry or technology. He's gone to the arms and armor hall at the Metropolitan Museum twice (at his request, and he's begging to go again when we return to NYC this June) and can speak knowledgably enough to answer questions from other guests, even when the information is not shown on any of the plaques.

 

I'm dead sure that he is every bit as smart as our daughter, in terms of sheer mental horsepower. But he's taking his own path, and we have no interest in pushing. We try not to let them stagnate, intellectually, but childhood, as far as I'm concerned, shouldn't be a race. I always tell my kids they're going to be adults a lot longer than they get to be kids, so there's no need to hurry.

 

I'm sure you'll find what works for your family and your child. I am utterly convinced there is no "right" way.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[Calliope84]

Wow! It sounds like you provided a lot of opportunities for them to learn more about what they are interested in. I hope we can do that for our kid(s). I am actually really excited to learn with DD because there is so much I don't know and so many books (classics) I want to read. :)

 

Was it hard to let your daughter go away like that? I don't know if I could do it! I have 80 college credits and have no intention of going back any time soon. I was bored out of my mind and couldn't settle on one major. I don't want to waste any more money. If DD wants to go to college, I hope she can attend classes when she is ready instead of having to do it later.

 

Did you use the classical method to formally teach things like grammar?

What kind of stuff do you and your husband do now to stimulate your minds? I think my husband is like me, too. School was bad for him.

 

I feel like I missed out and maybe didn't do all that I could have. I dreamed about getting a PhD before I got pregnant, but I'm not interested anymore and can't pick a subject anyway. I pursued a singing career before I got married, but I am happy I left that industry. I'm teaching myself a bunch of things right now. I'm focusing on making websites, organic gardening, learning about teaching DD, learning to cook better and take care of our new house, and making homemade cleaning products. I'm really interested in "radical homemaking" at the moment. ;)

[AK_Mom4]

How can I strike a balance between showing / teaching my DD things that are developmentally appropriate for her (and challenging enough) while avoiding pushing her? I worry about accidentally holding her back, too, like my parents did to me.

 

Sounds like you have the right attitude! You question is one I ask myself regularly and you would think that with the ages of my kids, I should have this figured out already. But the fact is that it's a work in progress - some days I find myself pushing a bit, other times I'm stepping back and easing off.

[Jenny in Florida]

Was it hard to let your daughter go away like that? I don't know if I could do it!

 

It was tough at first, but once she was okay, I was, too. We're close, and she still calls more or less every day just to chat. I love her, which means I have to be okay letting her do what is right for her.

 

 

Did you use the classical method to formally teach things like grammar?

What kind of stuff do you and your husband do now to stimulate your minds? I think my husband is like me, too. School was bad for him.

 

We didn't really "discover" classical homeschooling / TWTM until our daughter was nine. And I was an English major, editor and technical writer before kids. So, we never really followed the WTM recommendations for grammar and such with her. She just learned to write by writing.

 

I've made a stab at something more formal with our son, but still haven't been terribly strict about it. Every couple of years, I panic and decide he's not writing enough or well enough, and we buy a curriculum and do some work. And somewhere along the way, he got pretty good at it. He's taking an online language arts class this year and is currently running a 100% grade point average in that course. He reads ALL. THE. TIME. So, he knows how it's supposed to go.

 

I feel like I missed out and maybe didn't do all that I could have. I dreamed about getting a PhD before I got pregnant, but I'm not interested anymore and can't pick a subject anyway. I pursued a singing career before I got married, but I am happy I left that industry. I'm teaching myself a bunch of things right now. I'm focusing on making websites, organic gardening, learning about teaching DD, learning to cook better and take care of our new house, and making homemade cleaning products. I'm really interested in "radical homemaking" at the moment. ;)

 

It sounds like you're happy where you are.

 

I, too, feel like I didn't get the education I could have. But I've become an avid autodidact as an adult. And I've learned so much teaching my kids. You know all of those phases I mentioned that my kids have gone through? Well, most of the time I end up getting dragged along and learning with them. After all of those years reading books about Egypt and forensic anthropology and attending meetings and lectures with my daughter, I got so I could hold my own in conversations about those subjects and ask intelligent questions.

 

I learned about ballet being a dance mom for my son during his five years with the pre-professional dance school. And I get to go to all kinds of wonderful dance and theatre performances all of the time, because someone has to drive the kids! And I do lots of research about performers and genres and styles and playwrights and historical figures so that I can answer questions.

 

In the next couple of weeks, I get to see how some movie magic is created. My son has been cast in a small, locally-produced short film that will have him working in front of a green screen.

 

I read a lot, too. In the last three or four years, I've made a point of tackling at least a few "classics" each year that I managed to miss before this point in my life.

 

I don't really have time to feel like I'm lacking intellectual stimulation!

[Calliope84]

It was tough at first, but once she was okay, I was, too. We're close, and she still calls more or less every day just to chat. I love her, which means I have to be okay letting her do what is right for her.

 

It sounds tough to me. I don't know what I will do if DD is ready before 18 for college. I thought I'd let her go to a local college while younger, but what if she wants to go to a really good one? I never attended a "real" college, just a military campus program and some community colleges. I tried for one semester, but it wasn't for me. 16 weeks for one class is really hard for me and so is staying interested. I want my daughter to hopefully have more self-discipline in her studies than I had at college. College also let me down, though. I thought it was going to be really challenging and that my professors would expect so much more of me. Maybe I just never went to good enough colleges. :confused:

 

 

 

We didn't really "discover" classical homeschooling / TWTM until our daughter was nine. And I was an English major, editor and technical writer before kids. So, we never really followed the WTM recommendations for grammar and such with her. She just learned to write by writing.

 

I've made a stab at something more formal with our son, but still haven't been terribly strict about it. Every couple of years, I panic and decide he's not writing enough or well enough, and we buy a curriculum and do some work. And somewhere along the way, he got pretty good at it. He's taking an online language arts class this year and is currently running a 100% grade point average in that course. He reads ALL. THE. TIME. So, he knows how it's supposed to go.

 

I thought you learned to write by reading and then writing. I do feel like I have gaps in my knowledge, though. I don't really remember anything I learned about grammar and I am sure I make errors when I write. That said, I love writing and some of my professors seemed to think I was good at it. I can write a lab report or a research report and use the voice I am supposed to use because I've read those kinds of things. I love researching and writing articles for my websites, too. The Well-Trained Mind is telling me I need to really focus on grammar and my experience has been that it is reading that really makes a good writer. This program has the child reading a lot, though, too.

 

Maybe most kids do need grammar and others can just pick it up by reading. I'm not sure. It sounds like your kids just picked it up, but they are obviously very gifted. What do you think?

 

 

 

It sounds like you're happy where you are.

 

I, too, feel like I didn't get the education I could have. But I've become an avid autodidact as an adult. And I've learned so much teaching my kids. You know all of those phases I mentioned that my kids have gone through? Well, most of the time I end up getting dragged along and learning with them. After all of those years reading books about Egypt and forensic anthropology and attending meetings and lectures with my daughter, I got so I could hold my own in conversations about those subjects and ask intelligent questions.

 

I learned about ballet being a dance mom for my son during his five years with the pre-professional dance school. And I get to go to all kinds of wonderful dance and theatre performances all of the time, because someone has to drive the kids! And I do lots of research about performers and genres and styles and playwrights and historical figures so that I can answer questions.

 

In the next couple of weeks, I get to see how some movie magic is created. My son has been cast in a small, locally-produced short film that will have him working in front of a green screen.

 

I read a lot, too. In the last three or four years, I've made a point of tackling at least a few "classics" each year that I managed to miss before this point in my life.

 

I don't really have time to feel like I'm lacking intellectual stimulation!

 

Your son will have a lot of fun. DH does that stuff as a hobby. We have yards and yards of neon green cloth, a ton of props and costumes and all the lighting sitting out in our garage. ;)

 

I am secretly really excited to homeschool because of all the things you just mentioned. I can not wait to go to more living history museums, art museums, etc. I am so excited to get to make weekly trips to the library again and get to delve deeper into interesting subjects because my kids want to learn about them. I can't wait to go on roadtrips so they can see historical places. I hope they love this as much as I do! :lol:

Edited April 10, 2011 by Calliope84

[Ester Maria]

Your daughter is four months old. Months, not years - and even if it were years, I would be cautious when it comes to "labeling" her anything, even if only in the privacy of your own mind. :001_smile:

 

This is not to sound snarky or unsupportive. She does sound advanced compared to what is a sort of established "norm" for the babies.

However, I would be extremely cautious not to run to conclusions about her intellectual capacities on the long run due to early motor skills and being more alert than most babies are. In many cases, that will be an indicator of a general acceleration in development. In other cases, it will not be. Be particularly cautious if this is your first child (I gather an implication that she is) and you have no extensive experience with other children - again, not to sound snarky or unsupportive, but you might be blowing things out of proportions, being in love with your baby who is always going to be awesome, wonderful and miraculous to you, as a mother, which is normal and nice. Happens, particularly to parents with only children or their first children. Then expectations go stellar, kids function as advanced until about 8-9 years old, when the actual differences usually start visibly kicking in between kids and when the "nurture" elements starts being slowly overrun by the "nature" element when it comes to some cognitive capacities, etc., and the usual evening out around those ages. Then kids, accustomed to high expectations and overhearing about their exceptionality, go frustrated, insecure, etc. I know more than one case in which that happened - kids are perfectly fine now, but it was a sort of childhood trauma for them when the evening out with other kids happened, as they were being given messages of their exceptionality from the very toddlerhood based on, mostly, accelerated motor skills and very good home nurture. Eve toddlers are tricky, but babies are particularly tricky to draw any intellectual conclusions from.

 

What you can and should do is "listen" to your baby, her needs, respond to her and find a balance, considering only her (and not other children, books, etc.), in what is just stretching enough when it comes to developing her skills. You have a good couple of years before I would even consider looking at "the norm" (such a problematic concept anyway) and seeing what amount of mismatch there is. I would just go with fostering a relationship with your baby on her own terms. You will certainly find a common language in the months and the years to come, plus there is a mother intuition anyway about many things. :001_smile:

 

And when it comes to formal education, which is not done only on the child's own terms - I suggest the way of thinking of "you will cross that bridge when you get there", see what amount of mismatch happens, which areas you will have to adapt to your child and how, which particular interests she develops and how to go about encouraging her on her level, and all the rest.

 

If your daughter continues to be out of sync with the norm, intellectually as well, then it will be a time to adapt schooling to that, possibly request specialist help (if her "out of sync" will be tremendous and cause difficulties), find resources and support of parents who have gone through the same - and you will find much of that here too. But most importantly, be relaxed and enjoy the baby while she is small - they grow up so quickly. :tongue_smilie:

[JudoMom]

Your daughter is four months old. Months, not years - and even if it were years, I would be cautious when it comes to "labeling" her anything, even if only in the privacy of your own mind. :001_smile:

 

This is not to sound snarky or unsupportive. She does sound advanced compared to what is a sort of established "norm" for the babies.

However, I would be extremely cautious not to run to conclusions about her intellectual capacities on the long run due to early motor skills and being more alert than most babies are. In many cases, that will be an indicator of a general acceleration in development. In other cases, it will not be. Be particularly cautious if this is your first child (I gather an implication that she is) and you have no extensive experience with other children - again, not to sound snarky or unsupportive, but you might be blowing things out of proportions, being in love with your baby who is always going to be awesome, wonderful and miraculous to you, as a mother, which is normal and nice. Happens, particularly to parents with only children or their first children. Then expectations go stellar, kids function as advanced until about 8-9 years old, when the actual differences usually start visibly kicking in between kids and when the "nurture" elements starts being slowly overrun by the "nature" element when it comes to some cognitive capacities, etc., and the usual evening out around those ages. Then kids, accustomed to high expectations and overhearing about their exceptionality, go frustrated, insecure, etc. I know more than one case in which that happened - kids are perfectly fine now, but it was a sort of childhood trauma for them when the evening out with other kids happened, as they were being given messages of their exceptionality from the very toddlerhood based on, mostly, accelerated motor skills and very good home nurture. Eve toddlers are tricky, but babies are particularly tricky to draw any intellectual conclusions from.

 

What you can and should do is "listen" to your baby, her needs, respond to her and find a balance, considering only her (and not other children, books, etc.), in what is just stretching enough when it comes to developing her skills. You have a good couple of years before I would even consider looking at "the norm" (such a problematic concept anyway) and seeing what amount of mismatch there is. I would just go with fostering a relationship with your baby on her own terms. You will certainly find a common language in the months and the years to come, plus there is a mother intuition anyway about many things. :001_smile:

 

And when it comes to formal education, which is not done only on the child's own terms - I suggest the way of thinking of "you will cross that bridge when you get there", see what amount of mismatch happens, which areas you will have to adapt to your child and how, which particular interests she develops and how to go about encouraging her on her level, and all the rest.

 

If your daughter continues to be out of sync with the norm, intellectually as well, then it will be a time to adapt schooling to that, possibly request specialist help (if her "out of sync" will be tremendous and cause difficulties), find resources and support of parents who have gone through the same - and you will find much of that here too. But most importantly, be relaxed and enjoy the baby while she is small - they grow up so quickly. :tongue_smilie:

 

:iagree: This is wonderful advice.

[stripe]

Keep reading to her.

[Calliope84]

Your daughter is four months old. Months, not years - and even if it were years, I would be cautious when it comes to "labeling" her anything, even if only in the privacy of your own mind. :001_smile:

 

This is not to sound snarky or unsupportive. She does sound advanced compared to what is a sort of established "norm" for the babies.

However, I would be extremely cautious not to run to conclusions about her intellectual capacities on the long run due to early motor skills and being more alert than most babies are. In many cases, that will be an indicator of a general acceleration in development. In other cases, it will not be. Be particularly cautious if this is your first child (I gather an implication that she is) and you have no extensive experience with other children - again, not to sound snarky or unsupportive, but you might be blowing things out of proportions, being in love with your baby who is always going to be awesome, wonderful and miraculous to you, as a mother, which is normal and nice. Happens, particularly to parents with only children or their first children. Then expectations go stellar, kids function as advanced until about 8-9 years old, when the actual differences usually start visibly kicking in between kids and when the "nurture" elements starts being slowly overrun by the "nature" element when it comes to some cognitive capacities, etc., and the usual evening out around those ages. Then kids, accustomed to high expectations and overhearing about their exceptionality, go frustrated, insecure, etc. I know more than one case in which that happened - kids are perfectly fine now, but it was a sort of childhood trauma for them when the evening out with other kids happened, as they were being given messages of their exceptionality from the very toddlerhood based on, mostly, accelerated motor skills and very good home nurture. Eve toddlers are tricky, but babies are particularly tricky to draw any intellectual conclusions from.

 

What you can and should do is "listen" to your baby, her needs, respond to her and find a balance, considering only her (and not other children, books, etc.), in what is just stretching enough when it comes to developing her skills. You have a good couple of years before I would even consider looking at "the norm" (such a problematic concept anyway) and seeing what amount of mismatch there is. I would just go with fostering a relationship with your baby on her own terms. You will certainly find a common language in the months and the years to come, plus there is a mother intuition anyway about many things. :001_smile:

 

And when it comes to formal education, which is not done only on the child's own terms - I suggest the way of thinking of "you will cross that bridge when you get there", see what amount of mismatch happens, which areas you will have to adapt to your child and how, which particular interests she develops and how to go about encouraging her on her level, and all the rest.

 

If your daughter continues to be out of sync with the norm, intellectually as well, then it will be a time to adapt schooling to that, possibly request specialist help (if her "out of sync" will be tremendous and cause difficulties), find resources and support of parents who have gone through the same - and you will find much of that here too. But most importantly, be relaxed and enjoy the baby while she is small - they grow up so quickly. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Thanks! That is very good advice. It is likely way too early to know what she will be like as she gets older. Everything I've read suggests that IQ is largely hereditary, so if that is true she *might* be a bit accelerated and I don't want to let her down! I know she is only four months, but even now I try to figure out what to give her to play with. For instance, that cone sorting toy isn't for kids her age but it is her absolute favorite now and she'll spend 15-30 minutes several times a day playing with it. I bought it early because I thought maybe she'd be ready for it soon. Otherwise she'd be bored with her rattles (which are much ignored these days.)

 

It is OK with me if she is "normal" and isn't accelerated at all. She could even need extra help in certain areas and that is OK, too. I just want to do a good job. DH and I were talking about it the other day and all we want for her is to be happy. It doesn't matter to us if she does anything really different, has any special talents, or goes to some Ivy league college.

 

I'll definitely enjoy her. I am already shocked and a little sad because of how fast she has grown in just 4 months!