YE? NE? Does it matter to you as a Christian?

[justamouse]

What I wonder about is -- if the earth's animals significantly pre-date the arrival of mankind in the form of an actual Adam and Eve, why would that be a Fallen World (with deaths, animals eating each other, disease etc.) if Original Sin had not occurred yet?

 

And if Adam and Eve fit into an evolutionary context, how?

 

Well it depends on if your an YE or an OE. To an Theistic Evolutionist, Adam and Eve are an archetype, the beginnings of a story God wanted to tell so it doesn't matter about an actual timeline, just that it started way back when.

 

If you're an YE, then you're going to get upset about all of those exact times lining up.

[Trish]

I do know that science is oftentimes turned on its head, because we don't know what we think we know. It has happened before, and will happen again. Much of what science assumes to be true may not be.

 

I believe in an all-powerful and all-loving God. Clearly such a God can make a PERFECT world. And did. This world now is clearly NOT perfect. So something interfered with God's perfection (original sin). To me, that can't be a vague point. There is no reason for disease, disaster, disharmony otherwise.

 

It's the whole point of sending his son Jesus Christ to save us, and the world. If there is no original sin, what exactly is He saving us from?

 

Science doesn't seem to have room for original sin. But if I have to make a Leap of Faith, I'm making it with Christianity and the Bible, not scientists.

[justamouse]

I do know that science is oftentimes turned on its head, because we don't know what we think we know. It has happened before, and will happen again. Much of what science assumes to be true may not be.

 

I believe in an all-powerful and all-loving God. Clearly such a God can make a PERFECT world. And did. This world now is clearly NOT perfect. So something interfered with God's perfection (original sin). To me, that can't be a vague point. There is no reason for disease, disaster, disharmony otherwise.

 

It's the whole point of sending his son Jesus Christ to save us, and the world. If there is no original sin, what exactly is He saving us from?

 

Science doesn't seem to have room for original sin. But if I have to make a Leap of Faith, I'm making it with Christianity and the Bible, not scientists.

 

I've seen so many of these battles on this board that I could care less either way because neither opinion negates my salvation.

 

Why would science have to explain original sin, anyway?

 

You might be interested in a book called THE FALL, by Stephen Taylor that explains 'the fall' of mankind as an explosion of ego that was not around in prehistory.

[Trish]

I've seen so many of these battles on this board that I could care less either way because neither opinion negates my salvation.

 

Why would science have to explain original sin, anyway?

 

You might be interested in a book called THE FALL, by Stephen Taylor that explains 'the fall' of mankind as an explosion of ego that was not around in prehistory.

 

Thanks for the link. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, since I don't feel certain myself which is more likely to be the truth. Whatever God's ultimate explanation is will suit me fine.

 

If Jesus died for an archetype, what was it that gave us our Fallen nature? What is the meaning of Jesus' sacrifice otherwise?

[Ginevra]

If Genesis is not true, how on earth can I take God at His Word in the rest of the Scriptures?

 

I'm a very simple person. I kinda believe that when God says something, He means it. I do recognize allegory. I do understand poetry. But . . . as a studied literary critic, I can find nothing in the language of Genesis 1 that suggests He might be speaking allegorically or poetically . . . or leaving gaps in the information to allow for death and destruction and millions of years of evolution.

 

*sigh* But then, I am one of those incredibly narrow minded dolts that would actually be willing to die on the young Earth mountain before standing down to "science". I especially cannot in good conscience stand down when science simply cannot prove what they have theorized either by demonstration nor by giving witness to their theories. I don't care what "science" thinks they know. They themselves have affirmed multiple times that they cannot prove what they "know" without observable, repeatable, and testable evidence one way or another. Since no "science" to this point can do any of those things in regards to Earth's origins, I'm going with the Diety account. Screw "science" so-called.

 

How on earth could plants have been created on day three and somehow survive for thousands or even millions of years without the light of the heavenly bodies, which were created on day four? Why would God say, "It is VERY good!" when the world had millions of years of death and destruction of evolution to reach the point of perfection? Didn't God give us the impression that death and disease were a result of the Fall: i.e. could NOT have occurred beforehand? If not, then what is the curse of sin exactly? Not death, certainly, as we have been taught are the "wages of sin." Why do I need the Bible at all if we are no better off now than we were before the first sin? Who needs a Savior in that kind of world? If death happens anyway, then what was the problem with Adam and Eve being told they would die?

 

In the day they ate of the fruit, Adam and Eve witnessed the first death. They were, in one instant, doomed to die, but a lamb was mercifully slain in their stead as a symbol of One Who would be born to take on Death for them. Adam and Eve died to God on that day and were cast out of the Garden. They no longer enjoyed unmediated fellowship with God. Their bodies began the slow course of death that would eventually bury them many years later. None of this is even worth studying if six days of creation is not literally true.

 

My faith in God and Jesus does not rest on the perfection of the Bible. Jesus is revealed to me spiritually, relationally. The Bible is gravy. There have been portions of the Bible that really illuminate for me in a supernatural way; none of them have been creation accounts, however. But I have quirky beliefs that are not well-loved by most traditional Christians. :001_smile:

 

Strangely enough, I moved away from YE as I was reading materials from AIG years ago. I was looking for all the "amazing evidence" for YE and all I found were good OE arguments that I hadn't considered before.

 

P.S. When I thought I was YE, I could have written the quoted post.