dual language homeschooling?

[Amirah]

Hello all well i am about a year out of officially homeschooling and i am planning to homeschool in both arabic and english. basically i would like to do language arts(reading, writing and grammer) and math in both arabic and english.we may do science in arabic as well depending on husbands schedule. i would only do math up until the 6th grade in both languages (because i plan to switch to a different curriculum for middle school)

 

i was wondering if anyone else has done this and how it worked out for them(scheduling and outcome wise) i have arabic textbooks and arabic readers at level as well as an arabic math book but i am just trying to figure out how to schedule it. any help would be great.

[cellocoffee]

Hi, I'm kind of new in this forum as well. We are just gong into the

Third yr of homeschooling.

Besides music, language art in mandarin Chinese is our main

focus. At home we have beginnng books about nature, science, kids magazines, and math practice in

Chinese.

 

We used them a lot until this year when her learning

went beyond these books. So we just use whatever books we found

in English but discuss it in my native tongue(just can't spend 1k on books and ship them to the US anymore) I found it's easier and less confusing

when discussing science or math, to use the terminology in English anyway.

 

It's also for practical reason-- I just don't have that much time to teach my dd1 every subject *twice* in both languages.

(she does still do her +- & multiplication table quicker in Chinese. LOL)

 

So far we r very thankful that we had the option to homeschool to preserve our DD1's Chinese skill and cultural heritage. Homeschooling also allows our DD2 ( 2&1/2 yr old) to be set up using Chinese as her first language. Both of them watch kid's shows from Taiwan(satellite)

 

I think it is possible in my experience but it will get a little tricky with time

planning as they learn faster and more later.

Good luck!!

Good luck,

[Ester Maria]

We started out with Italian as our "base language" - all of our primary materials and texts were Italian, but I started adding in English language arts as early as K-1st, and about early 2nd I switched to a sort of bilingual homeschooling, with Italian still a "base language", but with English readings on things we learned, supplementing our regular materials with the anglophone ones (for the sake of learning the English terminology along with the Italian one), encouraging reading in English too - most of their English they were still getting from their friends and the society they lived in, but I started "recognizing" it as a second official language of our homeschool too. In about 3rd-4th grade, along with our History progression, I added some America-specific things, in order not to create an educational "mismatch" between them and the society in which they lived, even though I was not required to learn these things with them - so we learned a bit of American history, I started getting serious about English readings (i.e. not only free reading, but also assigned, I took care to get them some tutors too which could handle that better than me), and I even started adding English for Judaics. So as it turns, by 5th grade, we were basically fully bilingual with regard to the content areas, plus there was Hebrew (for Judaics and Hebrew language arts, though I started "sneaking in" Hebrew materials for other classes too from time to time), and classics were taught via Italian. One of my kids still does everything bilingually, the other one ditched English (except for English lit classes and some free reading) and does everything in Italian, with extended Hebrew studies.

 

How it turns out will mostly depend on you. There are success stories, but you have to be prepared to go above and beyond what people normally do to keep the "other" language on the level of age-appropriate proficiency outside of the place where people speak it as their dominant language. Travel helps A TON, if you can afford it, so can connecting kids to other kids who speak the language, media, etc. - you will have to include more than just school to keep them on the right level and keep their bilingualism balanced.

 

Scheduling, I never had any problems with language mixing or anything - I could normally schedule English in the middle of Italian sessions, though I did separate it when they were small, most of the time. I guess it depends on your personal preference, kids can usually handle either.

[Yenisei]

Hello all well i am about a year out of officially homeschooling and i am planning to homeschool in both arabic and english. basically i would like to do language arts(reading, writing and grammer) and math in both arabic and english.we may do science in arabic as well depending on husbands schedule. i would only do math up until the 6th grade in both languages (because i plan to switch to a different curriculum for middle school)

 

i was wondering if anyone else has done this and how it worked out for them(scheduling and outcome wise) i have arabic textbooks and arabic readers at level as well as an arabic math book but i am just trying to figure out how to schedule it. any help would be great.

I don't have any specific advice for you, but I want to congratulate you on this. I plan to do something like this with my daughter, but because she won't actually be fully homeschooled (it's illegal in Germany), I will limit the subjects that she does in English with me to US history and math and to literature and Middle Eastern history with her Arabic teacher. I do wonder, though, if it makes sense to do math in both languages.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I consider us a bilingual homeschool too. Our main language is French, our family life is 100% French. The kids are fluent now in English. My son is 13 and my daughter is 10. We also live in a bilingual society, so they have access to immersion activities in both languages. Our foreign languages are Spanish and Mandarin (and Latin too, I guess) but those are not treated the same way as French and English.

 

Based on my experience, it was pretty useless to do language arts in both French and English when the kids were young. Maybe Ester Maria and I just have access to different books, but it just did not work out for us. Once a child knows what a verb is, there is no point to do it all over again in the second language, or the basic use of a comma, or exclamation points. An adverb is an adverb. I never even asked them to write in English, we never did English spelling (writing in French is much harder than writing in English), nor English grammar. Now, in grade 8, I can somewhat see that there is a need for more advanced English grammar, in order to get them from casual writing to formal writing. They read a lot in English (we do Sonlight) and write to friends (email and Facebook) in English. My son has also elected to write his science assignments in English, because he studies it in English. We've spread the learning across our two languages based on resources I could find. The kids study literature formally in French, and somewhat formally in English through Sonlight books. History, sciences, and math are done with English books but discussed in French. Arts are in English at the local co-op. Sports are done mostly in English now, although last year my daughter's sport was mostly French.

[Ester Maria]

Maybe Ester Maria and I just have access to different books, but it just did not work out for us. Once a child knows what a verb is, there is no point to do it all over again in the second language, or the basic use of a comma, or exclamation points. An adverb is an adverb.

I did not sweat such things either, but I found it important to do things such as guided reading and vocabulary, some finer points of grammar or even spelling (even though my kids spell things naturally) and, further along the road, to go over formal grammar and focus on literature (with minimal English writing too). I lump it all together and call it "English", but formal dry grammar is actually a minimal part of that, it is mostly literature by now.

[Joan in GE]

English is our base language, though mine take exams in the local school for 7th - 9th at a maternal French level for a variety of subjects, and probably ds3 and maybe dd4 will do uni in French as well. So we've been trying to do all the French grammar as well as various subjects in French, depending on what is available at the time.

 

Geography was the most fun to do in French as I thought the materials for the levels up to 10th were much more interesting that the US materials (though the UK materials are well done too - but we wanted to develop French vocab).

 

History has interesting materials too in French, but we still have many more in English. We switch back and forth depending on what is most informative or interesting. And when ds wrote his 9th grade 10 pg research paper, almost all the texts were in French (he studied the Huegenots in Geneva), but he wrote the paper in English.

 

I do wonder, though, if it makes sense to do math in both languages.

 

If you are preparing your child to study at the university level in English then it's probably good to study it in English as s/he would need math; it makes sense to do something in that language when they are younger. But if not, it might not be worth the effort/time.

 

In some ways math seems like the easiest subject to do in a foreign language, unless you have to verbally talk about the process in the foreign language. Because then we tend to switch back to the language in which we learned it to process the math - at least this is what I've heard. (I should add here that if the student will be tested based on the system of a certain country, it could be better just to follow those materials, as some topics are presented in quite a different order, with different methods of solution, etc. Eg. the French/Swiss way of doing division is quite different from the American way. Thankfully mine were not graded on the process.

 

As for grammar, it seems important to learn it in the language that is more complicated if you are able to teach it, then it will be easier in the 2nd language... Eg starting with cases in German, rather than trying to learn them after learning in English... Mine study grammar, spelling, literature analysis in French and English, but it wasn't so serious before 6 -7th grade. I thought it more important to focus on vocabulary and verbal fluency in the younger years. Because sentence structure can be quite different, it is really that which needs to be studied, not the noun, verb, per se. Good and natural writing in the 2nd language takes a lot of effort, esp in languages where the written/proper language is quite different than the spoken language (thinking of French there - but even English for a document).

 

Agreeing with Ester Maria that it is work to keep the level up as the years pass...

 

And then the problem with homeschooling in another language is the materials available and whether they are really homeschool friendly or not - ie how much the child can understand when he has to work independently.

 

Joan

Edited April 6, 2011 by Joan in Geneva

[marbelinchen]

If I understand you correctly, you and your DH are native Arabic speakers, and your children are not school aged yet. My family is 100% German, but we've been living in the US for a long time.

 

When I was at your point, I thought I would teach one day in English, another day in German. I quickly realized that it's much easier to simply switch from one language to the other during each lesson every day. My son doesn't even realize it. I might have him explain his way through a math problem in English one minute, then I switch to German, and he automatically answers back in German. Same with other subjects. This way he learns the vocabulary and how to express himself in both languages in all subjects. I do the switching on purpose, not just by accident.

 

Elementary grammar is also easy. Nouns are nouns and verbs are verbs, no matter which language. Most topics touched in early years are not language specific. The main goal at the beginning is to learn the parts of speech. That can be done in both languages more or less simultaneously.

 

Science - if you know the vocabulary in both languages, do the same thing. Use a text that you find better suited, but discuss it in both languages. No need for teaching the same thing twice.

 

I am gradually adding formal German lessons to work on my son's reading and writing skills in German. Fortunately, German uses the same letter symbols. You have to teach penmanship in both languages separately, but that should be about it.

 

After grades K and 1 (almost finished), I can say I thought it would be much harder and made a big deal about it, but it's actually quite easy. All that you have to do is teach your children to read and write in both languages, the vocabulary and fluency will already be in place.

[Joan in GE]

May I ask what you used for Geography and History in French?

dd learned a lot of English with Science, Bible etc., maybe Geography is a good one for French. dd is maybe younger then yours, for French we hope she can start in fall with a '3rd grade' level .

 

First, for history for the younger years, I do like and use SOTW as the base and Mystery of History (up to where it stops). But the glossy pictures in the French texts (of old implements and artifacts, historical scenes and models, mosaics, frescos, etc, etc,) add to the exposure experience. I don't know what Dutch or German texts look like at all. And the French ones have a lot of questions, to get them answering in French.

 

I like Hachette Histoire Geographie by Adoumie, because the teacher's manual has answers in full sentences in French which helps a nonmaternal speaker like me. I know CNED has answers but am not sure what the answers are like. Maybe Cleo can look and tell you.

 

I have found another problem with the newer French history program which is that they have changed the order of presenting the Hebrews...Before they came after the Egyptians (in my Hachette book dated from 2004) but before the Greeks and Romans. Now they come after the greeks and Romans and they've been put together with the Christians. They are not trying to make them one, just presenting them at the same time. This is for the national program established in 2008 (for 6e,5e,4e, 3e - you know it gets to be a lower number the higher you go after 6th grade, right?) and my book is copyrighted 2009 for 6e.

 

It is very hard, sometimes impossible to find the teacher editions for the older books though.

 

They used to always put Histoire et Geographie together. Then you could also get it with "education civique". Now I saw on CNED it includes "moral" instruction as well. But recently I saw that for the last edition, they would sell History separately. You'll have to see what you can come across if you visit an FNAC in France...They have some workbooks that go with the history books - the problem is that they don't have any answers....

 

So your dd is in 3rd grade by the US levels? I didn't actually use the French materials in geography for that level, more for 6e up. But from the CNED CM2 book I have, it looks like it is similar to the books for the higher levels, presenting a higher level of information than what I have seen in US geography texts (no idea about Dutch ones). For the younger years, the Hachette editions are not as meaty as the CNED, but it may just have been the type of book I was looking at. It would be good for you to go to a bookstore and compare.

 

Joan

Edited April 9, 2011 by Joan in Geneva
To try to get the 6e link working - don't know if it will though

[cellocoffee]

Wow, I haven't really thought about the college level yet. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge. Now I will be able to prepare further.

 

Sometimes I really wish my native langage is a latin-based language. It just takes so much time and energy to implement(keep it interesting) writing and reading Chinese.

 

One skill I have been doing since DD1 was as little as 3, was to learn to translate simultaneously on EVERYTHING we discussed. I am no expert on learning, but this skill seems to help her brain switch quickly back and forth and not stick with one langage in one thing.

I have noticed that DD1 seldom has trouble interpreting English content into Chinese for my Chinese friends. I think this is a good skill to maintain bilingual.

What do you all think about that?

Thanks,

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Wow, I haven't really thought about the college level yet.Thanks,

 

Be careful. College in France means grade 6 to grade 9. Then it is followed by 'lycée'

[cellocoffee]

It's fun to learn new things!

So "collège" roughly equals to the middle school age and "lycée" equals to high school, right?

 

We've been to France twice (my husband's contrebasse mentor lives in Paris)and possibly more visits in the future.

 

 

Merci beaucoup!

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

It's fun to learn new things!

So "collège" roughly equals to the middle school age and "lycée" equals to high school, right?

Merci beaucoup!

 

 

Yes, collège means 6ieme, 5ieme, 4ieme and 3ieme.

Lycée is 2nde, 1ere, and terminale

 

And before that, you have CP (roughly 1st grade), CE1 and CE2 (2nd and 3rd), CM1 and CM2 (4th and 5th).

 

So 5ieme does not mean 5th grade ;-)

[Joan in GE]

Cleo - could you check what the answers in the CNED history teachers manuals are like? (ie are they given in full sentences or what?) Thanks!

 

Yes, collège means 6ieme, 5ieme, 4ieme and 3ieme. Lycée is 2nde, 1ere, and terminale

 

Actually in Geneva, "college" means 10th, 11th, 12th and 13th grades. (They do 13 years in Geneva.)

 

I think in the neighboring canton what would be called "high school" in the US is called "gymnase".

 

Our 7-9th grades are called "cycle d'orientation". Though those are about to change, as they are now going to call the first two years of kindergarten, 1st and 2nd grade, which will make 7-9th grades - 9-11th grades! Confusing n'est-ce pas?

 

Here in Switzerland in general in French - the "hautes ecoles" (high school) is about what we would call "college/university" in the US, though with a difference of expectations so it would not always give university credit in the US and they have separate "universities" where you would get credit in the US. That's why I try to remember to use the word "university" instead of "college" nowadays.

 

Joan

[Ester Maria]

Yes, collège means 6ieme, 5ieme, 4ieme and 3ieme.

Lycée is 2nde, 1ere, and terminale

 

And before that, you have CP (roughly 1st grade), CE1 and CE2 (2nd and 3rd), CM1 and CM2 (4th and 5th).

 

So 5ieme does not mean 5th grade ;-)

I am still recovering from the shock of learning French numbers in childhood. Quatre-vingt-dix was the highest point of madness to my eyes, God knows how many exercises I failed because of that one. No wonder you have the crazy system of marking school grades. :glare:

 

We do it MUCH better by having 1-5, then 1-3, then you start high school in 4-5 and continue in 1-3, so you graduate at "3rd lycee" from a 5-years institution. It makes perfect sense. :D

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Confusing n'est-ce pas?

 

the "hautes ecoles" (high school) is about what we would call "college/university" in the US, Joan

 

 

 

MADDENING!!!

 

And of course, in Québec, it's yet another system. High school for us means grades 7 to 11. We do not have a grade 12. However we have CEGEP, a pre-university school that last either 2 or 3 years depending on the program.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

but I couldn't figure out what CM means,

 

CP = cours préparatoire

CE = cours élémentaire

CM = cours moyen

[Joan in GE]

Dutch books from Belgium drive me crazy: history,Geography,science, traffic lessons, health etc. etc. are one subject and most books have every 2 pages a new subject

 

Then don't get the French books that include "Education civique and Morale", as they are covering, at least not science, but the how to behave at home and in society info.

 

USA Geography I know is focused on Facts.

Dutch Geography is more about landscapes and soiltypes, about immigration and climate, rocks and minerals etc. It try to explain the relationship between those things. And it contains topography at Elementary level.

 

The French geography is a bit more like "human geography" with some economics, etc mixed in.

 

Here are some pages from the Geography part of 8th grade (4e) about Spain which talks about it's past, mutations in society today, economics, etc. I think they talk about soil types, minerals, etc in Science...

 

While I'm at it, here's an extract from the History part of 5e (7th grade) about Africa in the Middle Ages.

 

Joan

Edited April 9, 2011 by Joan in Geneva

[Ester Maria]

Maybe you prefer the Belgian way

Yes, I did used to write that, but they did not accept it and insisted on quatre-vingt-whatnots and soixante-douze etc. :( At least it helped with elementary school math LOL. :lol:

 

But now seriously, I love French - beautiful language. :)

[4KookieKids]

Fortunately, German uses the same letter symbols. You have to teach penmanship in both languages separately, but that should be about it.

 

What do you mean by this? If the letters are the same, why teach penmanship separately?