Have any of you used ABeka for high-school math?

[ChristyB in AL]

We have not used ABeka math ever--even in elementary years---but have an opportunity to purchase Alg II pretty cheap. Any advice??

 

Thank you!

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

We have not used ABeka math ever--even in elementary years---but have an opportunity to purchase Alg II pretty cheap. Any advice??

 

Thank you!

 

Run away. Run away fast.

 

LOL

 

Well, maybe not as bad as all that, but I taught it in the classroom lo those many years ago, and it was pretty bad.

 

Others have used it with good success, so YMMV.

[Jann in TX]

I also taught it in a classroom setting...

 

ABeka's highschool program is from the EARLY 1900's --around 1914. They are very out dated--and have almost no teacher helps--and only a few inadequate examples in the student 'lesson'. It was designed to be taught by an experienced teacher who could 'teach' the whole lesson and provide supplements as needed.

 

I had to supplement every lesson--and I had to ADD a bunch more.

 

Our school paid $15 for each text--so it was never an expensive program to start with!

 

For a GREAT inexpensive Algebra 2 program look into Lial's Intermediate Algebra. 7th edition will run around $50 including postage for text, video lessons and solutions manual. But only the text is needed--easily purchased for under $10 including priority shipping!

[Ms. Riding Hood]

Jann,

 

I am hijacking here because I've been wondering about Abeka for a while. My dd has been using Abeka for elementary math, going into 6th grade next year. She is not mathy at all, not intuitive in the least. She struggles with anything that isn't spelled out to the last dot--if it varies from the algorithm, forget it. And forget about applying anything she's learned, either. She's kind of a weird learner; I don't blame Abeka, though it certainly hasn't helped her understand anything. She can "do the math", but that's about it. I want to avoid Abeka for 7th grade and up, but I've struggled with what to do. My other kids are in Saxon, and while I certainly don't love it, it is very self-contained--something I need. But I do NOT want to put her in it; she's not going to be able to follow the instruction there at ALL.

 

I've thought a lot about Lial's, but I wonder what the drawbacks are? Teacher intensive? What? And if not Lial's, what else? I've thought about Chalkdust or some other program that involves a teacher presentation and help service, but they are so pricey. I think I'm rambling now. I know Lial's has the DVT's...I'm just hesitant, and not really sure why. Can you make anything of this? I hope so. :confused:

[Mesa]

Wow I hadnt heard that about Abeka... that stinks. I had planned on using Abeka for highschool.

[ChristyB in AL]

For a GREAT inexpensive Algebra 2 program look into Lial's Intermediate Algebra. 7th edition will run around $50 including postage for text, video lessons and solutions manual. But only the text is needed--easily purchased for under $10 including priority shipping!

 

 

Thank you so much--I just found the 8th edition set (with DVT's) for $30.00

But I noticed that you mentioned the 7th ed. Is the 7th better, or is this a good deal??

 

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!

[Jann in TX]

There are only MINOR (very minor) differences between the 7th and the 8th editions. The 7th edition is 2001 so it is still 'recent'. College text books have to produce 'new' editions (mostly cover and isbn number changes) every year or two so the colleges can gain revenue through their bookstores (my parents teach/work at a university and it is their complaint too!).

 

I have both so feel free to e-mail me if you ever have questions about a problem or with scheduling.

[Jann in TX]

Jann,

 

I've thought a lot about Lial's, but I wonder what the drawbacks are? Teacher intensive? What? And if not Lial's, what else? I've thought about Chalkdust or some other program that involves a teacher presentation and help service, but they are so pricey. I think I'm rambling now. I know Lial's has the DVT's...I'm just hesitant, and not really sure why. Can you make anything of this? I hope so. :confused:

 

The developmental math series by Margaret Lial was designed to be self-teaching. This means that the complete lesson is in the student text. There are no 'surprises' with this program--but the problems in the last section of the homework make the students THINK.

 

This series was also designed for 'block' scheduling--one lesson every 2-3 days with lots of homework practice. It is very EASY to split up the lesson and the homework into about 20 or so problems a day. The text can easily be finished in a school year with days to spare. For Basic College Math (Pre-Algebra level) I usually assign every other odd--and use the remaining odds for additional practice as needed. For Introductory Algebra on up I assign all of the odds. I always assign ALL of the problems in the chapter reviews and allow 2-3 days to complete. The 'mixed review' part of the chapter reviews is a practice test--and is optional. I use the tests in the book.

 

I'm using this series with my oldest dd who has learning differences. She has done very well--better than I imagined. We used Saxon with success for 2nd through part of 8/7 then she broke down and we switched to Lial--I spent a whole $5 on a BCM text that I heard about on these boards. It was the BEST $5 I have spent in the last 9 years of homeschooling! She only comes to me for OCCASIONAL help--I have to look elsewhere for my teaching fix!:tongue_smilie:

 

The DVTs (video lessons) that come with Lial's are not that fancy but they are nice to have around in case the student needs more support. The students I have used this series with have NOT used the DVTs--but then I'm around to answer any questions...I've been able to tutor students using this program in 1 one-hour session a week. The book is really that self-teaching.

 

Chalkdust is a nice program--it is pricey but has a HIGH resale value. The material covered in this program is comparable to what is covered in the Lial series.

 

If you ever decide to use the Lial series feel free to e-mail me if you need help scheduling or if you need help explaining a problem.

[Michelle in MO]

I think Jann in TX posted a little while ago about this, but the elementary math series has been revised, and I've used that for all three of my girls without any problem.

 

The upper-level math, though, has not been revised since Abeka bought the program a while ago, and the algebra book doesn't teach linear algebra or functions and some other concepts in algebra that are necessary in today's world. Also, I was very concerned about their upper-level math program myself when they were all in the elementary math series. The plane geometry course is only one semester, and I believe kids need a full year of geometry.

 

There are many better math programs out there, but I wouldn't go with Abeka. I've used Lial's Introductory Algebra pretty successfully with my two older girls, and my oldest is now doing Chalkdust Geometry and doing fairly well with that.

 

Abeka just isn't enough, IMO---not their upper-level math.

[Ms. Riding Hood]

Jann,

 

Thank you so much for a very thorough reply to my rather disjointed question! I have a file where I've put many, many of your Lial's posts over the last couple of years, so I went back and looked it over carefully. I didn't remember I'd saved as much as I had! There were some "concern" posts that I'd copied there, too, so I pulled them out and pasted them in below. If you have time (someday...no rush) would you mind addressing these? They would certainly be concerns for my dd. Meanwhile, I wish I could send you some flowers, or better yet, chocolates! You've spent so much time answering math questions on this board. Thank you!!! :thumbup:

 

Now, I'm not a "math" person, but sometimes, to me, the explanations are definitely written at the *college* level rather than the high school level

 

My oldest dd did fairly well with Introductory Algebra, but she got really bogged down with the Intermediate Algebra text.

 

 

The worked problems are not supported with enough lead in information nor explantion.

 

It's a college text written on a more "adult" level than the typical high school text. It was overwhelming for my mathy son for Algebra 1 in 8th grade

[Michelle in MO]

two questions, since they sound familiar and might have been problems that I posted in the past (from the old boards)!

 

First of all, I really do like Lial's: I like the layout of the books, the presentation of the material, etc.

 

The way the textbook is laid out seems to me (a non-math type mom) more college-level rather than high school level. That said, overall both of my girls have done pretty well with Lial's. My oldest ended up with approximately a 94 average with her tests; with my middle daughter, I've had to backtrack a few chapters, but most of the problems are pretty straightforward.

 

Sometimes the word problems are difficult. I have found it necessary to make sure I'm up to speed on my algebra, so that I'm available to help answer questions. I've found out the hard way (both with geometry and algebra) that with math I just can't hand the girls the books and expect them to be totally self-teaching. They're just not that adept at math, and of course, they're just kids. After all, I had a math teacher at their age!

 

As far as the second question is concerned, my oldest daughter did do well with Introductory Algebra, but the problem with Intermediate Algebra was really my fault. She did Intro. in 8th grade, and then I put her right into Intermediate Algebra in 9th grade. At the time I really didn't understand enough about upper-level math sequencing. For my family, I'm convinced that the sequence of Algebra I, then Geometry, then Algebra II is much better. Algebra II in 9th grade (the Intermediate book) was just way too much for my 9th grader; in fact, many kids in public school don't tackle Algebra II until their junior year! The problems didn't become apparent until the middle of the year; the first 4 chapters of Intermediate were really a good review of the Introductory book, so my daughter did well. But then we hit Chapter 5, and she really started to flounder. Neither my husband nor I recognized the fact that the material was simply too difficult for her: we both thought, "Well, let's just hire a tutor; if we get her enough help and keep working with her, she'll eventually catch on." That was our mistake.

 

To me, there really wasn't a problem with the material in Intermediate Algebra; it was just that we (inadvertently) expected way too much of my oldest. Her "math brain" simply had not matured to the point of being able to understand the material in Intermediate Algebra.

 

I hope I'm not "butting in" in place of your questions to Jann! I don't mean to---it's just that those two phrases sound like things I've written in the past about Lial's. All in all, I'm still a fan of Lial's: I think the explanations are thorough (although they might require a parent to go through some of them with the child), the examples are great, there are problems in the margins that the student can work through by himself or with Mom. There are "helps" like the DVT's, and a very thorough student solutions manual, which will help you, as the parent, guide your child through some of the more difficult problems. Plus, there's a thorough chapter review at the end of every chapter, and cumulative review exercises after the chapter test, so that the child doesn't forget all of the previous concepts covered in the book.

 

All in all, it's a good program. Some of the problems I ran into---I caused myself! :blushing:

 

Jann, of course, can elaborate more on these questions. She's been a tremendous help to me as I've figured out the curriculum!

[Ms. Riding Hood]

Michelle,

 

Thank you SO much for your answer. Making a switch from something comfortable and familiar is difficult for me, especially since I am math-phobic and not great a helping the kids through tough spots. This dd has been such a worry for me! You really went over everything well. It makes me feel more secure having some of these specific concerns addressed by moms like you (unlike Jann!) who aren't math teachers. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Michelle in MO]

switching curricula, either, once I'm comfortable with something! It takes a while to figure out what works.

 

Another algebra choice that is highly regarded on these boards would be Dolciani. Jane in NC is a big fan of that program; I've only seen the book, but I'm not familiar with its use.

 

However, there are good algebra programs out there that are also "do-able" for the parent as well. Lial's has been one such program for us!

 

Hope you find the right program for you and your family!