Blessed with seven Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Okay...what are the big differences between Rightstart and Math Mammoth? Pro's and Cons? I love RS and want to teach it but have 7 children, using if for A and B level. I am wondering about Math Mammoth as I know RS is time intensive for Teacher! Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 We started the year with my 1st grader with RS. I like a lot of the concepts for RightStart but it jumps around too much for me and made some leaps that dd was not ready for. We switched to MM and I have been very pleased. It teaches a traditional scope and sequence but includes the conceptual and mental math that I want taught. I looked ahead to 2nd grade because I thought some mental math was missing and saw that they teach it starting in 2nd. First grade is more basics with a little cool thinking thrown in. I also like the use of word problems. MM does include game suggestions to use throughout. We use the rods from Miquon math and the RightStart abacus alongside MM. I blogged about MM earlier this year. I think the big differences would be that MM has a more traditional S&S and is much less teacher intensive while still teaching good skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothergooseof4 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I tried RS with my oldest and he cried every time I pulled it out. So did I!!! Though I liked the concepts behind it, the method killed us both. He hated all of the manipulatives, didn't want to play the games, and just asked for the worksheets. I would prefer a worksheet as well, though I do use manipulatives to demonstrate a concept. The problem wasn't that it was teacher intensive because we switched to Horizons and I still sat and did it with him at that age. I think for him it was not knowing what was expected in a lesson. You know, he can see how many problems are on a page. Plus, he just hated all of the manipulatives....he still hates stuff like that and just wants to get his work done. He is an auditory learner, not a hands-on type. That kiddo now uses a combo of TT and MM blue series. My younger two are using MM light blue. I really like it. I sit at the table with the younger two and they work on their math at the same time with some guidance and help from me. There is no way I could have two levels of RS going at the same time. I use manipulatives to demonstrate new concepts if they need them and we sometimes play the games that are mentioned throughout the program, but they would really just prefer to get it done like their older brother. We do use and enjoy the RS abacus with our MM. My middle son has been through MM 1A, 1B, most of 2A, and parts of 2B. I can see him adding and subtracting numbers in his head in a way that his older brother still cannot. I wish I had taught my oldest to add and subtract this way, but I didn't know about MM when he was that age. It teaches mental math, but in a way that is not so abstract that my dc cannot see where it is going or what is expected of them. Plus, the price cannot be beat. I purchased the whole package in the fall from the co-op for less than one level of RS would cost and am done for the younger two until after 6h grade, plus have the blue series to supplement for my oldest. So, you need to consider your time with RS. Plus, if your kids are not hands-on learners, they may not like it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 any other opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 any other opinions? I've never seriously considered RS because I need math to get done every day. I don't see how I could spend that much time on math for each kid and still be able to do other subjects. We have the RS math games (you can buy a set of just the games) and use Math Mammoth. If I had one or two kids, I could do more teacher-intensive programs. I have five, so I need to choose more carefully. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RecumbentHeart Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I haven't used RS but I do have MM and have used 1A some. I don't know how teacher intensive RS but I've read differing things on how long people find it takes them to complete a lesson and I personally didn't find a big difference in those time frames to those I was spending with my son and MM. There are recommended activities to go along with the pages of MM that take your time if your child needs more than paper and pencil work. In evaluating both of them at this level I wouldn't personally take teacher involvement time into account, partly based on what I've read in my own research and partly because at K and 1st level I am expecting to need to be pretty involved whatever I choose. I guess I would be asking myself, do I want a manipulative based curriculum or a pencil and paper based one to which I add the manipulative activities as needed? That would partly depend on my knowledge of my own children and them not changing after I buy the curriculum ... these are shifty factors for me at this age ... so I would then fall back to what I can see myself actually doing and although I haven't chosen RS over MM, we stopped doing MM because although I was thinking this is so flexible and I can add what is needed - the reality of day to day life ended up with that not happening and DS just filling in the pages. So, at this level, MM just hasn't worked for me personally, in our home and our circumstances, to get math done with the pleasure and understanding I want for my children to have and we moved on to something else. So, I reckon you could go with either and that they both have equal chance of either succeeding or flopping without a huge difference in how much of your time either would take to do well. IMHO, of course. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I have a first grader, working in MM 2A right now (we also did 1A and 1B). At this level, I still have to go over new concepts, but then I can set him free to work problems while I go empty the dishwasher or wrangle a toddler, etc. It's about as independent as a first grader is going to be. I have RS A, which I'm using on occasion with my 4 year old. It's waaaaaay more teacher intensive. I can't just go off and do something. I have to be there the entire lesson. With 7 kids, I would absolutely do MM! You can add in as much teacher instruction and manipulatives as you want. When my 4 year old is older, I will switch him to MM. Right now, he needs the non-writing type of curriculum, since he's not had a lot of practice writing numbers yet. There is no way he could do MM 1A yet (even if he was ready for it, which he really isn't yet, though probably would be next year when he's 5). I will probably only use RS A. I think I'll probably also get Singapore Essential Math K, and then when he's done that, he should be ready for MM 1A, possibly with some adjustment on how much he is assigned and how much I have him do himself (if he does it earlier than first grade). For first grade level and up, I think MM is great, but again, it does have a lot of problems. Only assign half of them if you need to. It's easy to adjust. My oldest is not real strong in writing (he can only write for so long). In 1B especially, I often had to assign just half the problems. So far, we've been doing most of the problems in 2A, but we've been working up to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Okay...what are the big differences between Rightstart and Math Mammoth? Pro's and Cons? I love RS and want to teach it but have 7 children, using if for A and B level. I am wondering about Math Mammoth as I know RS is time intensive for Teacher! Kim Actually I have found math to take time to teach, regardless of the program. At least until they are older. I started out just with Singapore, and I would have to sit with her duing her lessons to walk her through the steps until it became automatic. Sometimes I had to do that for up to a month (multiplication). Then she hit a wall when they took away the picture manipulatives in Singapore 1A, so we started MIquon. She hated it, so that was a constant battle. Then we went back to Singapore. When my 2nd dd also hated Miquon I decided I needed something else. I knew my 2nd dd was very hands on, so I found Right Start. I wasn't going to have my oldest go through it at all, because she resisted manipulatives, but she decided she wanted to try. As it turns out she is more hands on that I realized. In the end it takes less time to teach RS here than it did the sitting and walking them through how to do stuff because they are so concrete and hands on it just wasn't clicking. MM is going to have more worksheets while RS is going to have the games. I don't know if MM has the focus on visualizing numbers and quantities that RS does. The nice thing about having lots of kids is you can have them play the games together. I only play about once a week. If you have any LD students you will mostly likely find that RS doesn't have enough practice. I and my kids are dyslexic and dyscalculic and RS alone would not provide enough practice to make things automatic. Generally my kids score very high on the conceptual side of math (theory, why it works), and lower on the computation side (doing math) because they don't recall their math facts right. It isn't that they don't know their math facts. It is a processing problem where the brain mixes things up. Anyway that is largely why I do both Singapore and RS now. I hear through that RS and MM are closer in sequence, so if I were starting over I might go with those two. The nice thing about using two programs is I can take weeks off to do planning and such, and the kids still do their math, they just only do the Singapore. I get the best of both worlds. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 MM is going to have more worksheets while RS is going to have the games. I don't know if MM has the focus on visualizing numbers and quantities that RS does. The nice thing about having lots of kids is you can have them play the games together. I only play about once a week. Heather Hi Heather!! Well..this is what I was wondering...does MM have the focus on visualizing numbers etc...that RS does. I know I need to teach Math, especially in lower grades, not a problem..but..my kids do like doing worksheets. AND..I do want math to get done everyday, as someone else said, and I am finding it is not w/ RS. But..I am also using Spell to Write and Read (which I am keeping as most important) so...the RS may just be too much w/ that also.. I hate letting go of something I have really wanted to do, I love how they explain math and how they teach mental math and working it in your mind. Does MM do that? Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I have used both. I think RS A and B present an unbeatable introduction to math and numbers for kids. My kids really understand how numbers work, place value, and addition and subtraction (both mentally and on paper) because of what they learned in RS. The hands-on math is, imo, really good for younger kids who may be held back in traditional math programs if their handwriting is not good. After B, however, my love affair with RS fades. I switched my son into MM2A after RS B, and my daughter into MM3B after RS C. In C, the pace of learning slows way down and there is not enough sustained practice of new concepts. I have been very pleased with MM because my kids are able to do more writing and there is a good amount of review and practice. I wouldn't trade RS A and B for anything, though. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RecumbentHeart Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) I haven't personally seen, in MM1a at least, a strong emphasis on visualizing the individual numbers the way I have seen with RS and Professor B Math (our current math of choice). eta, would the RS games provide that emphasis? I'm not familiar with the games but someone else mentioned they could be something your children did together and combined with MM, perhaps that would work out for you? Edited March 11, 2011 by RecumbentHeart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 MM doesn't teach looking at a set of 3 objects and just knowing that it's 3. It teaches all the other mental math/conceptual stuff that Singapore and such teach though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 I had thought of doing A and B and then switching, just not sure how hard it is to start a program like RS and then switch. I do want them to understand and have fun w/ math! I have the RS games, we are just not a game playing family, isn't that horrible? We really aren't..although my husband plays chess w/ my son but adding in games w/ our school work never seems to get done. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RecumbentHeart Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I had thought of doing A and B and then switching, just not sure how hard it is to start a program like RS and then switch. I do want them to understand and have fun w/ math! I have the RS games, we are just not a game playing family, isn't that horrible? We really aren't..although my husband plays chess w/ my son but adding in games w/ our school work never seems to get done. Kim I think you could do it. TaraTheLiberator already mentioned she did it. :D If I wasn't doing what I'm doing I would do it .... if that made sense. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I had thought of doing A and B and then switching, just not sure how hard it is to start a program like RS and then switch. It wasn't hard for my kids to make the switch, but I will say it's a totally different way of having math class. Instead of sitting on the floor with all the RS manipulatives, the kids sit at the table with a workbook and pencil. (I LOVE that they can do their math at the same time, and I am there to explain and answer questions, instead of me scheduling separate time blocks to teach RS at two different levels to two different kids. Makes our day much shorter!!) I teach differently, too. It was far more of an adjustment for me, but we are all happy with the way things are going. I think that the kids get more math done in 20-30 minutes of MM work than in 45-60 minutes of RS. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Hey Kim! Why didn't it dawn on me it was you in the first place??? Anyway, here is what I do. I think I have told you our schedule but if not here it is: We hs doing everything for 2 weeks, then I take a week here I do planning and the kids just do their independent work, then we do two weeks of everything and then take a week off. On the everything weeks they kids do both RS and Singapore. On the independent weeks they just do Singapore, except my oldest who is doing Geometry becuase that level is written to the student. In your case I might sit down and ask myself what kids really need Singapore, because they struggle with math, are extremely hands on or are just young. Then ask who would do fine with the worksheets in MM. You can work out a schedule for them to play the games either way. As in even the kids doing MM can play the RS games. Right now my schedule is: Monday: Oldest two play a game on my 2nd dd's level. Younger two play a game on my youngest child's level. Tuesday: Oldest three play a game on my 3rd dd's level. I play a game with ds. Wednesday: Same as Monday. Thursday: Oldest plays a solitaire game at the E level, younger three play a game at my ds level (generally multiplication memory). At least that is probably how I would approach it. Don't abandon it entirely but give ground where it is safest to do so. You don't want to have to come back and plug holes later. BTW my 7th grader is doing Geometry, my 5th grader just started E last week. My 4th grader will start D this coming week and my 2nd grade ds will start C by summer. He is right at the end of the book, but the four plus digit math intimidates him, so I am allowing him to do one problem a day, which means it is going to take a while to finish. None of my kids are near the B=1st grade, C=2nd grade, D=3rd grade, E=4th grade and Geometry=5th grade. That said the lowest test score I have gotten is my 3rd dd, who struggles a lot with accurate computation (not theory) and is the farthest behind, but she still got a NP of 75%. Being behind isn't the end of the world if they are really getting the why of math. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Hi Heather!! Well..this is what I was wondering...does MM have the focus on visualizing numbers etc...that RS does. I know I need to teach Math, especially in lower grades, not a problem..but..my kids do like doing worksheets. AND..I do want math to get done everyday, as someone else said, and I am finding it is not w/ RS. But..I am also using Spell to Write and Read (which I am keeping as most important) so...the RS may just be too much w/ that also.. I hate letting go of something I have really wanted to do, I love how they explain math and how they teach mental math and working it in your mind. Does MM do that? Kim We use SWR also! We switched from RSB to MM1A midyear. MM does not cover the visualization of the numbers like RS. But I have been very pleased with the mental math of MM. Level 1 does not contain as much as level 2 but I can see how she is introducing mental math concepts all along the way. Dd7 is currently in MM1B and just completed a lesson completing the 10. Have you looked at the sample MM sheets and table of contents? If I had more than one child to teach I would definitely use MM and add in RS techniques that I saw missing but still felt were essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 See...I have the RS "original" program, the Acitivities for the AL Abacus and worksheets, I am wondering if that would be better used w/ MM? I am starting to wonder about MUS...anyone care to comment on that..just to add one more to the mixl..ha! Okay..really...my dilema...RS, MM or MUS? I have MM 1 that I got years ago..just found it in my adobe files. With the 50% off going on right now on HBC, I just don't know..so many love math u see but then don't in upper levels. OH...too many good choices. So...I have to consider what we can actually get done! Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 See...I have the RS "original" program, the Acitivities for the AL Abacus and worksheets, I am wondering if that would be better used w/ MM? That could be a good fit. We only used MUS for a short while as it moved too slowly through the concepts for us. I felt I would benefit more by getting a set of the older MUS videos and watching them so I knew the teaching techniques and could use them as an additional way to teach my children if they were not understanding a concept as presented in their primary program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 ! Okay..really...my dilema...RS, MM or MUS? I have MM 1 that I got years ago..just found it in my adobe files. OH...too many good choices. So...I have to consider what we can actually get done! Kim All three? (evil grin) No I am not serious. I don't have anymore ideas for you either. Praying you find the right answer for your needs. (((Hugs))) Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Last summer, my son started doing DreamBox Learning online for math. He'd enjoyed Headsprout, so I thought an educational "babysitter" would be good to have. Many of the games, especially in the kindergarten and first grade levels, use an abacus that looks like the RightStart abacus. After a month of Dreambox, I bought RightStart B. We made it through 25 lessons and haven't done it since. I just can't get myself to consistently use it. The lessons we did were helpful, but it was starting to jump around in topics. My son loves playing "Go to the Dump," so I think I'll sell RSB and buy the card games instead, perhaps even the Activities for the AlAbacus as well. In November I bought Math Mammoth 1A and 1B and we've consistently used it. We're about 80% through 1A. I hear so many great things about Singapore, but I don't want to use multiple books (Miquon drove me crazy), so I'm sticking with MM and DreamBox. Someone on the boards has a quote in their signature about an adequate curriculum that gets done being better than a superior one that doesn't get used. Every time I'm tempted to get Singapore, I remind myself of that quote. I'm only homeschooling one child right now and I'm a newbie, but I have a hard time figuring out how someone could do multiple levels of RightStart and get all the other subjects done as well. If you have the money, I think DreamBox makes an excellent supplement. (Although, I do sit with my son most of the time while he plays and teach him "tricks.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 Yes...I agree, it is better to get one that will actually get done! I am going to take a bit of time and look through my books I have and see what I actually think will get done. I may have to let go of my "hopes" of using RS and use something we will actually get done.:glare: Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I am going to take a bit of time and look through my books I have and see what I actually think will get done. I may have to let go of my "hopes" of using RS and use something we will actually get done.:glare: I'm not very far into RS, but my understanding is that as far as methods go, the only things RS teaches that MM doesn't is the seeing numbers without counting them (which I don't know how useful that *really* is... I guess many of us do it naturally and don't have to be taught? I don't know if my oldest does it or not, but he has no trouble with math, so I haven't worried about it) and making 5s AND 10s... MM just makes 10s for addition/subtraction across a 10. For my oldest, I love using MM and then we sometimes do some RS games to solidify the facts and such. He likes that method. I also use the RS manipulatives if I need them, though I rarely do with him. I use base 10 blocks sometimes too, just because that's more familiar to me than the abacus (I just learned how to use that and need to use it more often). But if you already have the Activities for AL Abacus, that sounds great! Use that as a supplement to MM. MM is easy to get done. You assign 2-3 pages a day. Doesn't get much easier. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed with seven Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Not to confuse things even more but would MM be able to be used alongside MUS? Just curious... Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 It's a very different scope and sequence, though MUS doesn't really excite me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Not to confuse things even more but would MM be able to be used alongside MUS? Just curious... Kim I wouldn't think that would work very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexi Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I wouldn't think that would work very well. Do you mind explaining why??? We use MUS but I'm not sure it's enough or if we want to stay with it. I thought about adding in Math Mammoth and then we could see if that program worked better. Then we could switch completely or do both. I thought the two looked different enough to keep things interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Do you mind explaining why??? We use MUS but I'm not sure it's enough or if we want to stay with it. I thought about adding in Math Mammoth and then we could see if that program worked better. Then we could switch completely or do both. I thought the two looked different enough to keep things interesting. The difference in their scope and sequence I would think would be enough to make things very choppy. But that would be if you were trying to mesh the two programs. But it might work to do MUS certain days and MM the other days or alternate weeks. Another option would be to use the Blue series which is topical but still has teaching. The Golden and Green series are worksheets with no teaching material. (I love her worksheets.) So they wouldn't give you a good feel for how she teaches. How I actually started using MM was by using the worksheets during the summer to keep math skills fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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