Please check my Spalding order

[Guest]

I am looking at placing an order within the next month or so (probably in April) and would like to see if I have everything I need. Here's what I have so far:

 

- Parent's Set, Phonogram Cards & CD (Question here: Does anyone know why the set costs more than buying the phonogram cards separate to the CD? Does the set have something extra or should I just buy them separate and pay a little less?)

 

- Additional Phonogram Cards - Less frequently occurring phonograms needed by older students

 

- Word Builder Cards

 

- Spelling Assessment Manual (I am considering buying just one Teacher's Guide, just to get an idea of how it is set up. I am not sure yet if I will just use the spelling/ handwriting/ reading or the full program. I think if I get the TG then I don't need the Spelling Assessment Manual from what I saw in an older thread but I will only be buying one TG so I assume I need the SAM, right?)

 

- Teacher's guide (If I am only buying one TG, which would be worthwhile getting? I was thinking grade 1 and I can use it for my big boy for now, he is already an advanced reader and natural speller anyway, so I just want to use it mainly to see how to set this up, and then use it for my little guy when he is ready.)

 

Also, is the Spalding Word Analysis CD worthwhile getting?

 

I will be setting up my own notebooks for the boys using the Start Write software.

 

Thank you in advance for any input :).

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

Bump :)

[lamamaloca]

I personally wouldn't get the additional phonogram cards or the word builder cards, until you see how you like the program. They really are more extras, IMO.

 

I invested a lot (some money, but lots of time) into making Spalding work, and ultimately couldn't cut it. I wouldn't buy too much to start off, until you know how it works for you.

[Guest]

I personally wouldn't get the additional phonogram cards or the word builder cards, until you see how you like the program. They really are more extras, IMO.

 

I invested a lot (some money, but lots of time) into making Spalding work, and ultimately couldn't cut it. I wouldn't buy too much to start off, until you know how it works for you.

 

Thank you for posting this :). I know exactly where you are coming from and this is why I have hesitated to order the Teacher's guide. I have been back and forth on it. This is my story though. I bought the book (the WRTR) but found that since it is LA I may need some hand holding (I am a science/ math geek ;)).

 

I then thought about getting PR or SWR, meanwhile all I have wanted to do all along is Spalding. So I thought to myself, if I was going to spend it on PR or SWR and since it is Spalding I really want to do then why not spend the money to buy what will help me implement it! Due to shipping costs though I cannot afford small orders so I thought I would place one big order and get what I want/ need. If I later decide that I want to implement it fully I can continue getting the TG's and bless someone with the Spelling Assessment Manual if I no longer need it (if I am getting the TG's). Given the shipping costs and other costs we pay to ship here in Canada, I am sure it would be a true blessing to offer that to a family here if I see someone really serious in doing Spalding. And if I spend the money and I don't end up using it, I think I will still gain something out of it at least when it comes to implementing the spelling/ handwriting/ reading portion of it, and I will only be out the cost for the one TG. Still worthwhile since it should at least help me implement it for spelling/ handwriting/ reading. Sounds nice in theory of course ;). I hope it works out because it is what I really want to use.

[Guest]

Bump :). Anyone else?

[nansk]

Marie,

 

Could you please share more about how you will use the Start Write software for setting up the boys' notebooks?

 

MTiA

[plain jane]

I'm a Spalding user too. :) The only other thing I would add, that I use all the time, would be the McCall Crabbs books with the Users Guides. Spalding sells the original version of the books, not the newer edition, which are supposedly not as good.

 

Sounds like you're making your own notebooks so you won't need the paper but I did buy their paper and my kids do prefer to use it for their writing. I personally like their little spelling books. :)

 

I bought the teacher books so I can't comment on the use/need of the spelling assessment manual.

 

I hope you enjoy using Spalding, I think it's a great program!!

[Guest]

Marie,

 

Could you please share more about how you will use the Start Write software for setting up the boys' notebooks?

 

MTiA

 

I don't think I will know until I have the materials in my hands :tongue_smilie:. I have been reading as many old threads as I can find and seem to remember someone mentioning it. If I find the post I will link it but I don't remember there being any specifics as to how it was set up. I just remember thinking I have Start Write, I could try this too ;).

[Guest]

I'm a Spalding user too. :) The only other thing I would add, that I use all the time, would be the McCall Crabbs books with the Users Guides. Spalding sells the original version of the books, not the newer edition, which are supposedly not as good.

 

Sounds like you're making your own notebooks so you won't need the paper but I did buy their paper and my kids do prefer to use it for their writing. I personally like their little spelling books. :)

 

I bought the teacher books so I can't comment on the use/need of the spelling assessment manual.

 

I hope you enjoy using Spalding, I think it's a great program!!

 

Yikes, I was looking at the McCall Crabbs books last week. Thanks for reminding me.

 

Now, now... don't get me started adding too much :lol:. Adding in the McCall Crabbs books up to book B for now with the guides and the student answer sheets I am now at $165. Don't tempt me with the paper and spelling books :tongue_smilie:!

 

Do you know anything about the Spalding Word Analysis CD? Also, do you have any idea why the set labeled as Parent's Set Phonogram Cards and CD is more than just buying the Phonogram Cards - Individual Size and the Phonogram Sounds CD separately? Am I missing something? Aha! Ok, I figured it out. I missed it at first. Shipping is included for the US in the package option (phonograms + CD). So I guess I should add the separate items in my cart then, since I have lots more in my order. I assume that offer is for those that are ordering just those two items and would like to save on shipping in the US.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Guest

[Rod Everson]

Hi Marie,

 

I've taught struggling readers to read for just over 10 years now, and ended up using a program that drew a lot from Spalding. In doing so, I spent so much time going over the Spalding Method that I drew some conclusions on how to make it easier to use.

 

Along the way, I also developed a method of decoding multisyllable words that worked exceptionally well for nearly all of the kids I worked with.

 

So, the next thing I did was figure out how to restructure Spalding so that it would be both easier to use and would incorporate the multisyllable decoding method I used. The result became a section of my website: The Spalding Method for Homeschooling and you are the first person I've mentioned it to so far, though I certainly hope others find it interesting over time.

 

Everything is free, though eventually I will probably have revised phonogram cards printed on card stock so people can get them if the idea catches on. For now, though, I've made up a PDF of the cards and intend to email a free copy of them for a time to see what people think of them. The PDF can be gotten by emailing me from the page: Teaching the Phonograms on my site. You'll have to print them on card stock and cut them up if you want to try using them. (Just read the first couple of paragraphs....they're also on the Supplies page.)

 

I should add that I know that the multisyllable method I devised works exceptionally well (because I have had a lot of experience using it) but I've never used the modified phonograms. They just make so much sense to me, probably because they're a lot easier for a parent and child to understand, due to the simplified coding process they make possible, and coding is an issue with Spalding. It's one of the main reasons people find it frustrating to use. The other one is that it takes a lot of organizing, but it sounds like you're up to that challenge.

 

Anyway, good luck. You've chosen one of the best reading programs out there, in my opinion.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

[abrightmom]

Rod,

 

I just took a quick peek at your website! WOW!!!!! I can't wait to spend more time there...

 

I'm especially interested in how you work with kiddos struggling with multi syllable words. I have an 8.5 year old student. He's a strong student; a good reader; a natural speller. BUT those multi syllable words REALLY trip him up. I've been researching options for helping him to overcome this challenge.

 

 

THANKS for sharing. I'm excited to spend my free time reading & learning.

 

What is your top recommendation for Spalding/O-G programs to use in the home? :001_smile:

[Ellie]

You don't need the teacher guide. It's helpful, and if it's in your budget I guess it couldn't hurt to have it, but it isn't essential for a homeschooling parent.

 

Everything you need to know is in the manual (WRTR). Seriously.

 

If you don't get the teacher guide, you only need the Spelling Assessment Manual.

 

Here's the secret to learning the Spalding Method: read the manual, from cover to cover, more than once, before you try to nail down what to do. If you try to skim through it once, making notes in your head about what to do and when to do it, you'll be frustrated. You have to read the whole manual, every page, cover to cover, a couple of times.

 

I'm such a Spalding geek: I still get chilly bumps when I read the manual. :lol:

[Gooblink]

You don't need the teacher guide. It's helpful, and if it's in your budget I guess it couldn't hurt to have it, but it isn't essential for a homeschooling parent.

 

Everything you need to know is in the manual (WRTR). Seriously.

 

If you don't get the teacher guide, you only need the Spelling Assessment Manual.

 

Here's the secret to learning the Spalding Method: read the manual, from cover to cover, more than once, before you try to nail down what to do. If you try to skim through it once, making notes in your head about what to do and when to do it, you'll be frustrated. You have to read the whole manual, every page, cover to cover, a couple of times.

 

I'm such a Spalding geek: I still get chilly bumps when I read the manual. :lol:

 

:iagree:

 

The Spalding book, the basic set of phonogram cards and some notebook paper. That's really all you need.

 

I wouldn't spend the money on the Teacher's guide. I did buy both grades 1 and 3 and found I didn't need them.

 

I'm with Ellie, everything you need is in the book. Seriously. :)

[Rod Everson]

Rod,

 

I just took a quick peek at your website! WOW!!!!! I can't wait to spend more time there...

 

What is your top recommendation for Spalding/O-G programs to use in the home? :001_smile:

 

Hi, I don't have the experience with enough of the programs out there to say with any certainty. I just know that Spalding has been one of the most effective programs wherever it's been tried in schools.

 

In fact, my own program was heavily influenced by Spalding in that I always taught kids that many letters and digraphs usually stood for more than one sound, and then systematically taught them what they were. I just went at it differently, allowing them to see each option first, then bringing it together at the appropriate time. That's the approach taken in the Advanced Code Phonics Workbook I wrote.

 

I honestly think that the way I revamped the Spalding Method on my site could be even more effective than the original Spalding just because the coding and phonogram choices are much simpler. There's a few more phonograms to learn (84 vs. 70) but about half of the new ones are just "ending digraphs" for a sound. So "ce" is /s/, "ge" is /j/, "te" is /t/, etc., at the ends of words in many cases. All of those are trivial to learn if the child already knows the sound of the letter before the "e" (or one of the sounds, as with "ce"=/s/ - e.g., in since.)

 

When you get time, take a look at the sections titled Coding Revisions and Phonogram Revisions and you'll see why I suggested the changes.

 

And again, thanks for the encouragement. I've got to admit it's been a lot of work bringing it all together on the site. I just hope people manage to find it over time. A lot of what I learned over 10 years (most of it, actually) is posted on there somewhere.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

[Rod Everson]

You don't need the teacher guide. It's helpful, and if it's in your budget I guess it couldn't hurt to have it, but it isn't essential for a homeschooling parent.

 

Everything you need to know is in the manual (WRTR). Seriously.

 

Hi Ellie,

 

I've read the 4th Edition of WRTR cover to cover several times too, and have browsed (well, more than browsed, I guess) the new 5th Edition as well, and I just find the older 4th Ed. to be a lot easier to get the "gist" of the method. I think the 5th is a lot harder to plow through and see what Ms. Spalding was trying to say, even though it has a ton of teaching info in it.

 

I was wondering what you think in that regard, as I usually tell parents to look at both editions. The problem is that new copies of the 4th are selling at twice their list price now that it's no longer in print.

 

Rod Everson

[abrightmom]

Hi, I don't have the experience with enough of the programs out there to say with any certainty. I just know that Spalding has been one of the most effective programs wherever it's been tried in schools.

 

In fact, my own program was heavily influenced by Spalding in that I always taught kids that many letters and digraphs usually stood for more than one sound, and then systematically taught them what they were. I just went at it differently, allowing them to see each option first, then bringing it together at the appropriate time. That's the approach taken in the Advanced Code Phonics Workbook I wrote.

 

I honestly think that the way I revamped the Spalding Method on my site could be even more effective than the original Spalding just because the coding and phonogram choices are much simpler. There's a few more phonograms to learn (84 vs. 70) but about half of the new ones are just "ending digraphs" for a sound. So "ce" is /s/, "ge" is /j/, "te" is /t/, etc., at the ends of words in many cases. All of those are trivial to learn if the child already knows the sound of the letter before the "e" (or one of the sounds, as with "ce"=/s/ - e.g., in since.)

 

When you get time, take a look at the sections titled Coding Revisions and Phonogram Revisions and you'll see why I suggested the changes.

 

And again, thanks for the encouragement. I've got to admit it's been a lot of work bringing it all together on the site. I just hope people manage to find it over time. A lot of what I learned over 10 years (most of it, actually) is posted on there somewhere.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

 

Rod,

 

I canceled school today and I've been devouring your site. I have about 47,000 questions! I am truly fascinated and MUCH of what you have done makes sense to me and answers questions/struggles I've had in trying to implement Spalding methods. I'm so intrigued with the chunking method for teaching multi-syllable words. It's brilliant and much more sensible than the usual syllable division rules.

 

I still have a lot of reading to do and I'd like to ask you a variety of questions. Your website is FANTASTIC and very easy to navigate.

 

Some of my questions and "comments are as follows:

1. My two older kids know many (though not all) of the phonograms as taught in All About Spelling.

2. My oldest son is very familiar with the Silent E rules.

3. My oldest son is also somewhat familiar with syllable division (open and closed syllables). Does knowing this impact his ability to "chunk"? Your chunking method makes perfect sense to me. In fact, I love it and it's far more sensible than the usual syllable division rules. Have you had students who can learn and separate chunking and syllabication?

4. My oldest son needs multi syllable work. I've been reading through that section. I have a ways to go :001_smile:. He is reading with ease though he doesn't know all of the code and he certainly doesn't know the phonograms as you have presented them. Some of them are familiar to him as they mirror what AAS has done. I can also see that some of them would be easy to adapt. For example, the phonogram 'ed'. Light bulb! It makes sense to do it that way.

5. I haven't figured out why you dropped the sounds of 'uf' and 'of' for the 'ough' phonogram. I'm sure it's there but I am intrigued.

6. Thank-you for adding the 'e' sound to y. :D All About Spelling does that and I'm so grateful.

7. Are you recommending using your method alongside an existing Spalding method (i.e. WRTR or SWR) or as a stand alone?

8. I think I may want to try your application of the Spalding method from the ground up but I have kiddos at wildly different places in their learning. I'm overwhelmed at the moment trying to decide what to do with each one. The Advanced Code Phonics Workbook looks GREAT as do the phonogram cards. But I have to consider what we ARE doing (All About Spelling) and the implications of everything. I will be taking the time though. I'm completely preoccupied with this and will read every spare moment.

 

** I also have a very sick baby keeping me on my toes so my time to read and "think" :D is limited.

Edited March 18, 2011 by abrightmom
Forgot one :)

[abrightmom]

Hi Ellie,

 

I've read the 4th Edition of WRTR cover to cover several times too, and have browsed (well, more than browsed, I guess) the new 5th Edition as well, and I just find the older 4th Ed. to be a lot easier to get the "gist" of the method. I think the 5th is a lot harder to plow through and see what Ms. Spalding was trying to say, even though it has a ton of teaching info in it.

 

I was wondering what you think in that regard, as I usually tell parents to look at both editions. The problem is that new copies of the 4th are selling at twice their list price now that it's no longer in print.

 

Rod Everson

 

Well, this is a bummer! I have the 5th and just pulled it off the shelf to read while cuddling my sick little guy. :001_smile: I'd love to hear Ellie's thoughts as well...

[abrightmom]

Rod,

 

I thought of another question and it will help me to make a decision about my oldest. Do I need to teach him the phonograms the way you've modified them BEFORE using the Advanced Code Phonics Workbook? Do you think we'd have to drop All About Spelling in order to use your method for chunking multi syllable words? The way phonograms are presented differs somewhat and that has implications for how the rest of the program flows (i.e. learning about syllables, rules, Silent E, etc.)

[Ellie]

Hi Ellie,

 

I've read the 4th Edition of WRTR cover to cover several times too, and have browsed (well, more than browsed, I guess) the new 5th Edition as well, and I just find the older 4th Ed. to be a lot easier to get the "gist" of the method. I think the 5th is a lot harder to plow through and see what Ms. Spalding was trying to say, even though it has a ton of teaching info in it.

 

I was wondering what you think in that regard, as I usually tell parents to look at both editions. The problem is that new copies of the 4th are selling at twice their list price now that it's no longer in print.

 

Rod Everson

I don't find the 5th edition to be harder to understand. :001_smile: I don't tell people to try to get the gist of anything, either. I just tell them to study the book, because it's all in there. It isn't "teaching info." It's the Spalding Method, all of it.

 

Spalding teachers have been doing all of those things all along. The fifth edition just writes it all down in one place. I think the charts and sample discussions and all of the features are excellent.

 

At the same time, if people can only find earlier editions, they can still learn to teach the Spalding Method. I have owned all the previous editions; I'm down to just the 4th and 5th now. Once in awhile I'll refer to the fourth edition, but since the fifth edition is available, that's the one I make an effort to use and discuss and refer people to.

[Rod Everson]

Rod,

 

Your website is FANTASTIC and very easy to navigate.

 

Some of my questions and "comments are as follows:

1. My two older kids know many (though not all) of the phonograms as taught in All About Spelling.

2. My oldest son is very familiar with the Silent E rules.

3. My oldest son is also somewhat familiar with syllable division (open and closed syllables). Does knowing this impact his ability to "chunk"? Your chunking method makes perfect sense to me. In fact, I love it and it's far more sensible than the usual syllable division rules. Have you had students who can learn and separate chunking and syllabication?

4. My oldest son needs multi syllable work. I've been reading through that section. I have a ways to go :001_smile:. He is reading with ease though he doesn't know all of the code and he certainly doesn't know the phonograms as you have presented them. Some of them are familiar to him as they mirror what AAS has done. I can also see that some of them would be easy to adapt. For example, the phonogram 'ed'. Light bulb! It makes sense to do it that way.

5. I haven't figured out why you dropped the sounds of 'uf' and 'of' for the 'ough' phonogram. I'm sure it's there but I am intrigued.

6. Thank-you for adding the 'e' sound to y. :D All About Spelling does that and I'm so grateful.

7. Are you recommending using your method alongside an existing Spalding method (i.e. WRTR or SWR) or as a stand alone?

8. I think I may want to try your application of the Spalding method from the ground up but I have kiddos at wildly different places in their learning. I'm overwhelmed at the moment trying to decide what to do with each one. The Advanced Code Phonics Workbook looks GREAT as do the phonogram cards. But I have to consider what we ARE doing (All About Spelling) and the implications of everything. I will be taking the time though. I'm completely preoccupied with this and will read every spare moment.

 

 

Thanks, I'll tell my son, Matthew, at Astuteo.com, who designed and built the site that you like the navigation. Couldn't have done it without him. The old site was really tough to find things on.

 

As for your questions, I'll try answer a few here now.

 

1. I'm not sure what the phonograms are in AAS. The ones I designed for Spalding are the same as the ones I've used in my own program.

 

2. I doubt there will be any conflict with your son already knowing the silent-e rules. All I really do is mark the v+e in a more simple manner and create a bunch of ending digraphs like ce, te, ge, ne, ve and le for words like since, waste, large, gone, serve and hassle. It would probably be pretty easy to show him, for example, that rule 3 covers "since" and "large" but all we do is underline the digraph instead of marking a 3 over a double-underlined "e". Rule 2 is replaced by underlining the ending digraphs in words like "serve" and "glue." Rule 4 is replaced by "hassle". And these really are digraphs, by the way, so it makes sense to do it this way. For instance, the "ve" in serve does represent the /v/ sound.

 

3. The chunking method I designed and then taught (a lot) was so simple to pick up that kids took to it naturally, assuming they'd been prepared and knew what "vowel sound" meant. Syllable divisions have absolutely no purpose other than to divide words properly at the end of a line of text, and Noah Webster actually made some poor choices when he originally instituted them. No one is going to miss syllable rules, but I always told my students that if they took a syllable test in school and used chunk boundaries, they'd fail it for sure.

 

4. As soon as your son internalizes the Main Rule and Three Exceptions he'll quickly become quite confident at tackling longer words. Plus, the method really builds code knowledge because you're always systematically trying 1st, 2nd and 3rd (and rarely a 4th) options for the vowel sounds. I saw this happen regularly and I'm comfortable asserting it...unless he has a significant vision issue (another topic entirely).

 

5. Actually, it wasn't there, but it is now. I removed a lengthy explanation from the old site and have now added a much shorter one. Essentially, the ending "ugh" in "laugh," "cough," and "tough" is treated as a phonogram for /f/. It was either that or "gh" = /f/, but this is less confusing since now "gh" = /g/ only. The phonogram "ugh" isn't in the basic set of 84 because it's rare and is encountered way late in the Ayres List.

 

6. You're welcome. It's one of the easiest changes to make. Even if you change nothing else, I would make that change. The reasoning is here: The Easiest Change (y=the /ee/ sound)

 

7. Once you read all of the information, you'll see that I fully intend people to use the Spalding Method out of The Writing Road to Reading. It's a great method, probably the best. All I'm doing is suggesting what seems to me to be obvious improvements to the coding/phonogram structure and then (optionally) showing people how to replace syllables with the chunking process that I have seen work for so many struggling readers. The problem is that to do the chunking, you have to also make some of the coding changes, and the chunking method really works at the kid-logic level.

 

Also, I did try to lay out the steps one-by-one so that someone could use WRTR and then make modest changes to it. The basic program is still very much intact. (Nevertheless, Spalding-trained people really resist any change at all, and with good reason. It works, and works well, so why mess with it at all?)

 

8. I completely understand and would do the same. If you have any questions, I'll try to come up with the answers. By the way, the Advanced Code Phonics Workbook is meant more for catching a child up who's either just had a vision problem addressed or has had poor teaching thus far. It's not a complete reading program like Spalding. I sell the workbook, so I don't get into it in here due to the rules on advertising products.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

 

 

 

 

[Ellie]

1. I'm not sure what the phonograms are in AAS. The ones I designed for Spalding are the same as the ones I've used in my own program.

See, now, I have just a little problem with the way you worded this reply. It makes it sound as if you have permission from Spalding Education International to make those changes, or that you are somehow working with SEI.

 

Barbara Beers, Bonnie Dettmer, and Wanda Sanseri had the great wisdom to not refer to Spalding or WRTR in any of their materials. Their methods, albeit based on Spalding, are different. Seems to me as if it would be better all the way around if you did something different. Your method is your method; when you use "Spalding" you really muddy the waters, IMHO.

 

I don't care what people use to teach their children to read and spell. Millions of children in the world learn to read and spell with all sorts of things completely unrelated to Spalding at all. I just think it's important to watch one's phraseology when talking about Spalding (or any other product or method, for that matter).

 

The things you have written may be good; I'm sure you'll have many customers who will love your product. But it isn't Spalding, and it isn't clear by the way you write that it isn't.

 

Just sayin'.

 

And I'm saying it publicly instead of privately because all of your statements have been public. Also, it still seems as if you're selling your product here.

 

::puts on flame-proof Xena Warrior Princess armor, ready for the backlash::

[Rod Everson]

I don't find the 5th edition to be harder to understand. :001_smile: I don't tell people to try to get the gist of anything, either. I just tell them to study the book, because it's all in there. It isn't "teaching info." It's the Spalding Method, all of it.

 

Once in awhile I'll refer to the fourth edition, but since the fifth edition is available, that's the one I make an effort to use and discuss and refer people to.

 

I didn't find the 5th Edition harder to understand, but I did find it harder, as I said, to pull the content of the 4th Edition out of it. I read the 4th Edition first (several times) and became very interested in the method. I'm not at all sure that would have been my reaction if my first encounter had been with the 5th Edition. I agree though that there's a ton of useful additional information in it. I just suspect that a homeschooling parent would have an easier time getting comfortable with the 4th than the 5th (as was true in my own case.)

 

Given the price the 4th is going for new, it wouldn't surprise me to see it re-issued someday. Then maybe we could see which sells the fastest?:lurk5: (I hardly ever use smilies, but this one seemed appropriate somehow.)

 

I do really appreciate your view on the matter, and since it's the easiest to purchase, I do try to base what I do on the 5th edition, when it comes to discussing the word lists, etc.

 

In any case, I completely agree with your advice to go through the book (whichever edition one has) just reading it first, even though I probably poorly described that as getting the "gist" of the method, before studying it thoroughly. Thanks for responding.

 

Rod Everson

[abrightmom]

See, now, I have just a little problem with the way you worded this reply. It makes it sound as if you have permission from Spalding Education International to make those changes, or that you are somehow working with SEI.

 

Barbara Beers, Bonnie Dettmer, and Wanda Sanseri had the great wisdom to not refer to Spalding or WRTR in any of their materials. Their methods, albeit based on Spalding, are different. Seems to me as if it would be better all the way around if you did something different. Your method is your method; when you use "Spalding" you really muddy the waters, IMHO.

 

I don't care what people use to teach their children to read and spell. Millions of children in the world learn to read and spell with all sorts of things completely unrelated to Spalding at all. I just think it's important to watch one's phraseology when talking about Spalding (or any other product or method, for that matter).

 

The things you have written may be good; I'm sure you'll have many customers who will love your product. But it isn't Spalding, and it isn't clear by the way you write that it isn't.

 

Just sayin'.

 

And I'm saying it publicly instead of privately because all of your statements have been public. Also, it still seems as if you're selling your product here.

 

::puts on flame-proof Xena Warrior Princess armor, ready for the backlash::

 

Ellie,

 

Rod's website is FANTASTIC and he wholeheartedly endorses The Writing Road to Reading as THE best method (in his opinion of course). He has been "in the ring" with tutoring children, learning about reading methodologies, learning about vision problems, learning about dyslexia, etc. for YEARS. You should give him the benefit of the doubt rather than accuse him of something he is NOT doing. In fact, he tried to talk me out of purchasing his book and I've been encouraged to just use the materials that are free on his website. The majority of the work he has done (which is vast) is available to read at your leisure on his fabulous site. And, the majority of the materials he has developed are free. It's truly a wealth of information.

 

Rod is advocating using WRTR whether or not you agree with his few modifications. That is communicated clearly on his website. :001_smile:

 

Edited: Rod did such a nice job of humbly accepting Ellie's criticisms..... I'll just refrain from saying anything more in hopes of continuing what was, up to that point, a profitable discussion. Thanks. I deleted some of my comments since Rod was so much more concise and mine were just "fluffly".

Edited March 18, 2011 by abrightmom

[Rod Everson]

See, now, I have just a little problem with the way you worded this reply. It makes it sound as if you have permission from Spalding Education International to make those changes, or that you are somehow working with SEI.

 

 

I had to re-read what I wrote to see what you meant, and yes, I see what you mean. I shouldn't have phrased it as "the ones I designed for Spalding" because that could, indeed, be interpreted as me working for SEI.

 

I'll try to be more careful about that in the future. I should have said "the phonograms that I designed to use with my version of Spalding..." or some variation of that.

 

However, it is the Spalding Method that I am suggesting be modified. I'm not trying to create a new program. My interest is the same as theirs...to get parents to purchase WRTR and teach their kids to read with a great reading method. I just think it could use a little improving, even though I'm well aware that they won't appreciate my efforts, as I suspect, they didn't appreciate the efforts of their imitators, who do in fact sell a competing product.

 

So, let me be clear to all: Spalding Education International (SEI) does not endorse my efforts, nor do I work for them in any way. Anything I've said that implied otherwise was a poor choice of words on my part.

 

Thanks, Ellie, for helping me clear up the potential confusion. Believe it or not, I'm very sensitive to this issue and don't want to mislead anyone.

 

Rod

[Rod Everson]

Rod,

 

I thought of another question and it will help me to make a decision about my oldest. Do I need to teach him the phonograms the way you've modified them BEFORE using the Advanced Code Phonics Workbook? Do you think we'd have to drop All About Spelling in order to use your method for chunking multi syllable words? The way phonograms are presented differs somewhat and that has implications for how the rest of the program flows (i.e. learning about syllables, rules, Silent E, etc.)

 

The workbook will teach the phonograms, all of them and then some, and will transition easily into the multisyllable decoding. I never used flashcards with the workbook, but that's because I didn't have them available and had a more important use for session time. The phonogram cards would probably be a good way of reviewing though, especially if a card is added into the "deck" once all the sounds had been covered for that phonogram in the workbook.

 

I also wonder (but have never tried it myself) whether the phonogram cards could replace the workbook in some cases, say where a child is reading one and two syllable words easily, but has a poor grasp of the code. Maybe try the cards first and see what happens? If it goes well, the entire multisyllable method is free on my site starting here: Multisyllable Method Overview. All the needed PDF's can also be downloaded free from the site.

 

I really can't tell about AAS, as I'm not familiar with it....sorry.

 

Incidentally, Ellie raised the issue of selling stuff, and I sell the workbook, so I avoid raising it as a topic myself, but I think it's still okay to answer a direct question about it, which you did ask, so I'm hoping I'm on safe turf here.

 

Rod

[Guest]

Hi Marie,

 

I've taught struggling readers to read for just over 10 years now, and ended up using a program that drew a lot from Spalding. In doing so, I spent so much time going over the Spalding Method that I drew some conclusions on how to make it easier to use.

 

Along the way, I also developed a method of decoding multisyllable words that worked exceptionally well for nearly all of the kids I worked with.

 

So, the next thing I did was figure out how to restructure Spalding so that it would be both easier to use and would incorporate the multisyllable decoding method I used. The result became a section of my website: The Spalding Method for Homeschooling and you are the first person I've mentioned it to so far, though I certainly hope others find it interesting over time.

 

Everything is free, though eventually I will probably have revised phonogram cards printed on card stock so people can get them if the idea catches on. For now, though, I've made up a PDF of the cards and intend to email a free copy of them for a time to see what people think of them. The PDF can be gotten by emailing me from the page: Teaching the Phonograms on my site. You'll have to print them on card stock and cut them up if you want to try using them. (Just read the first couple of paragraphs....they're also on the Supplies page.)

 

I should add that I know that the multisyllable method I devised works exceptionally well (because I have had a lot of experience using it) but I've never used the modified phonograms. They just make so much sense to me, probably because they're a lot easier for a parent and child to understand, due to the simplified coding process they make possible, and coding is an issue with Spalding. It's one of the main reasons people find it frustrating to use. The other one is that it takes a lot of organizing, but it sounds like you're up to that challenge.

 

Anyway, good luck. You've chosen one of the best reading programs out there, in my opinion.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

 

Thank you Rod for posting this and bumping my thread. Actually in my case I have an advanced reader that has no issues with polysyllabic words and a two year old that already knows all his letters and is starting to learn the sounds. We have used and are using several good programs and my son is an advanced reader. What I like about Spalding is that it's an old tested and true method (as Ellie always points out in her posts :D) and I like that it will give me the framework I am looking for while teaching my boys. I am not looking to modify it :). Spalding is what I want to do. Thank you though. I am sure others will find the info useful.

[abrightmom]

The workbook will teach the phonograms, all of them and then some, and will transition easily into the multisyllable decoding. I never used flashcards with the workbook, but that's because I didn't have them available and had a more important use for session time. The phonogram cards would probably be a good way of reviewing though, especially if a card is added into the "deck" once all the sounds had been covered for that phonogram in the workbook.

 

I also wonder (but have never tried it myself) whether the phonogram cards could replace the workbook in some cases, say where a child is reading one and two syllable words easily, but has a poor grasp of the code. Maybe try the cards first and see what happens? If it goes well, the entire multisyllable method is free on my site starting here: Multisyllable Method Overview. All the needed PDF's can also be downloaded free from the site.

 

I really can't tell about AAS, as I'm not familiar with it....sorry.

 

Incidentally, Ellie raised the issue of selling stuff, and I sell the workbook, so I avoid raising it as a topic myself, but I think it's still okay to answer a direct question about it, which you did ask, so I'm hoping I'm on safe turf here.

 

Rod

 

Rod,

 

I do think you are on safe turf as you didn't come on to this forum "selling" anything.... But I want to be able to ask you a few more questions and wonder if doing that via private message or email would be better :001_smile:. Please let me know. I made an offer on a used copy of WRTR 4th ed. and a copy of Reading Reflex (for dirt :D). I recently read Reading Reflex and found it fascinating!.

 

Anyhow, off and on through the morning I've been devouring your site. It is excellent! I am so grateful and would like to ask you a few more questions and perhaps ask you to look at something from the All About Spelling site as a point of comparison.

 

For now I am going to spend time with my WRTR 5th edition AND the print outs of your phonogram & coding changes. So far, a few that I've looked over make a lot of sense.

 

Thanks for the work you are doing to help kiddos with vision challenges and dyslexia!! :001_smile: Thanks for sharing your work and giving so much time to helping other educators, especially home schooling Moms!:D

[abrightmom]

Thank you Rod for posting this and bumping my thread. Actually in my case I have an advanced reader that has no issues with polysyllabic words and a two year old that already knows all his letters and is starting to learn the sounds. We have used and are using several good programs and my son is an advanced reader. What I like about Spalding is that it's an old tested and true method (as Ellie always points out in her posts :D) and I like that it will give me the framework I am looking for while teaching my boys. I am not looking to modify it :). Spalding is what I want to do. Thank you though. I am sure others will find the info useful.

 

Marie,

 

Did you decide exactly what you are going to order to use in your Spalding adventure?? :001_smile: I'd also like to hear more about Horizons phonics and why you use that with ETC ... will you drop those once you begin SWR????

[Guest]

You don't need the teacher guide. It's helpful, and if it's in your budget I guess it couldn't hurt to have it, but it isn't essential for a homeschooling parent.

 

Everything you need to know is in the manual (WRTR). Seriously.

 

If you don't get the teacher guide, you only need the Spelling Assessment Manual.

 

Here's the secret to learning the Spalding Method: read the manual, from cover to cover, more than once, before you try to nail down what to do. If you try to skim through it once, making notes in your head about what to do and when to do it, you'll be frustrated. You have to read the whole manual, every page, cover to cover, a couple of times.

 

I'm such a Spalding geek: I still get chilly bumps when I read the manual. :lol:

 

Thank you Ellie! I was hoping you would see my thread :).

 

I already cut up my book (I did it myself but spent several hours and did a really good job) and put it in page protectors. The page protectors cost more than having the book replaced if it gets damaged or worn :lol: but it was well worth it. If I had to replace it I would also have to replace my notes, which I would rather not have to do. Anyway, I just need to split it between two binders. I have it in one right now with a divider.

 

I am torn about the teacher's guide still but I will do as you said and read the book twice before placing my order. I want all the cards because we are a tactile visual family and having something in our hands works well for us. I was also thinking (as another poster reminded me) that the McCall Crabbs books will be useful. Do you feel it is a worthwhile investment?

[Guest]

Rod,

 

...But I want to be able to ask you a few more questions and wonder if doing that via private message or email would be better :001_smile:. Please let me know.

 

Not Rod :) but he did mention in his original message that he can be contacted via e-mail through his page.

[Guest]

Marie,

 

Did you decide exactly what you are going to order to use in your Spalding adventure?? :001_smile: I'd also like to hear more about Horizons phonics and why you use that with ETC ... will you drop those once you begin SWR????

 

I think you meant the WRTR here not SWR right :)? I am still back and forth on the teacher's guide. I'm starting the WRTR again this weekend and see what I decide before placing my order. I did skim on some parts, Ellie is right, so I really need to do this right before putting my hands up in the air and running for the teacher's guide :tongue_smilie:.

 

As for Horizons and ETC, especially for Adrian since he has used and likes the programs, I will be getting Horizons Phonics 2 and ETC 7 and 8 as well. He only has those left and I like that Horizons gives me the worksheets with the activities to work on the spelling rules and phonics. With Malcolm I am not sure yet. Ideally I would love to be able to add them in to Spalding as a fun add-on. The workbooks are colorful, which works really well in my family also. I don't think I will need the ETC books for Malcolm but the Horizons workbooks... I am still thinking on that. We shall see. I still have time before I need to worry about that anyway ;).

[abrightmom]

:o Sorry about that ... WRTR. I just looked at the teacher manuals on the Spalding website and whoooo! They're pricey. But if they help you to break it down and know what/how to teach then it's worth it.

 

I may take a peek at Horizons. I am in a real funk with all things ENGLISH. We dropped out of The Phonics Road (long story) and though I knew I would miss it and my reasons for dropping it were valid and I really didn't have a choice at the time I'm still struggling with what exactly to DO now. Blah. I loved The Phonics Road too . . . I cried off and on throughout the week I had to sell it! :001_smile:

 

These questions and issues get beaten to death here on this forum because they are challenging! I am so overwhelmed right now that I think I need to take a break. . . but the thinking about it doesn't go away. I have about 100 paths in front of me and I'm not certain which path to take. I need someone older and wiser (with lots of Spalding and Orton-Gillingham experience) to sit with me and tackle every question that I do have.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and plans Marie. I do find it helpful to read what others are doing and the whys behind their decisions. I have had a (dusty) copy of WRTR 5th ed. on the shelf awhile. I decided to pull it out. It is a daunting read and it's hard to settle in with it when I want to see change and forward progress NOW!!! I do much better with scripts (All About Spelling style or even something like PR telling me just what to do and when) which makes me think I'd sink with WRTR.

[Ellie]

Well, it couldn't hurt to have those booklets, I guess; it depends on how far you want to go with the comprehension and reading components (I was satisfied staying with the spelling and letting dd read on her own). The new little readers are interesting, too. Wait and see how it goes. :-)

[Guest]

:o Sorry about that ... WRTR. I just looked at the teacher manuals on the Spalding website and whoooo! They're pricey. But if they help you to break it down and know what/how to teach then it's worth it.

 

I may take a peek at Horizons. I am in a real funk with all things ENGLISH. We dropped out of The Phonics Road (long story) and though I knew I would miss it and my reasons for dropping it were valid and I really didn't have a choice at the time I'm still struggling with what exactly to DO now. Blah. I loved The Phonics Road too . . . I cried off and on throughout the week I had to sell it! :001_smile:

 

These questions and issues get beaten to death here on this forum because they are challenging! I am so overwhelmed right now that I think I need to take a break. . . but the thinking about it doesn't go away. I have about 100 paths in front of me and I'm not certain which path to take. I need someone older and wiser (with lots of Spalding and Orton-Gillingham experience) to sit with me and tackle every question that I do have.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and plans Marie. I do find it helpful to read what others are doing and the whys behind their decisions. I have had a (dusty) copy of WRTR 5th ed. on the shelf awhile. I decided to pull it out. It is a daunting read and it's hard to settle in with it when I want to see change and forward progress NOW!!! I do much better with scripts (All About Spelling style or even something like PR telling me just what to do and when) which makes me think I'd sink with WRTR.

 

I am far... from being an expert and still working on paving our road but I think that you may need to work with what you know works best for you and your kids and don't worry too much about what works for others ;). Each family and even each individual child is unique. That said, I like that Spalding's method works with all learning styles but a method is useful if you as the teacher can apply it. It is why, since my mind is set, I am trying to find the way to apply it. I am trying to cut time by getting the teacher's guide (I have many other things on my plate right now since I am using other programs that are teacher intensive and require prep-time and also researching some other personal family stuff) but I really do need to go over the book in detail more than once and not try to cut corners by getting the teacher's guide. That's my plan now and I will push the order date further if I have to. As for the cost it is not really an issue. My parents are sending the boys money next month and I can't think of a better way of investing it :). I know my father will agree. He will be leaving my boys his big personal library of leather bound books (in Greek mostly). Reading is his passion and he never goes anywhere without a book.

[Guest]

Well, it couldn't hurt to have those booklets, I guess; it depends on how far you want to go with the comprehension and reading components (I was satisfied staying with the spelling and letting dd read on her own). The new little readers are interesting, too. Wait and see how it goes. :-)

 

My concern was the shipping since I am in Canada and was trying to do one big order with everything I need but since I will have them shipped to my friend in the US and have her ship to me it is not really an issue anymore.

 

I have looked at the readers and am keeping them in mind for my little guy. We shall see if we need them. I did use HOP with Adrian and he liked the stories but once he finished the grade 2 package at about age 5 I have stopped using readers and we just pick books from the library. I then buy the ones I see him reading over and over :). Well... ok, I still get him to read the Horizons readers but that's just because we are using the program and he likes to read those anyway.

 

I think I will go with the McCall Crabbs books. I AM still looking to see how far I want to go with Spalding :D and I think they will be a useful tool. I will see how much use I get out of the ones I will be getting, to determine if I will continue with them though.

 

Thank you for you reply. I really appreciate it :).

Edited March 19, 2011 by Guest

[Rod Everson]

Rod,

 

.... But I want to be able to ask you a few more questions and wonder if doing that via private message or email would be better :001_smile:. Please let me know.

 

I don't want to hijack Marie's post, so it would be better to do it elsewhere since she's really trying to figure out how much to order.

 

All of the pages on my site have a "contact us" button at the top. Feel free to use it. I'm more likely to see the question that way anyway. I don't notice the private messages a lot of times, so email's more certain.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

[Ellie]

The Spalding readers are totally different from any others, but they are optional, IMHO.

 

You have a good plan so far. Well done.:thumbup:

[Guest]

I don't want to hijack Marie's post, so it would be better to do it elsewhere since she's really trying to figure out how much to order.

 

All of the pages on my site have a "contact us" button at the top. Feel free to use it. I'm more likely to see the question that way anyway. I don't notice the private messages a lot of times, so email's more certain.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

 

Not a problem at all Rod. I find the posts that are for me. Post away... especially if it is helping someone else :).

[Guest]

The Spalding readers are totally different from any others, but they are optional, IMHO.

 

You have a good plan so far. Well done.:thumbup:

 

I did notice that about the readers :) and this is why I am considering them. I wouldn't bother if it were any others. I have some other readers that are word family related (besides HOP) so these, especially since I want to start my little guy with Spalding at an earlier age, will work well with the program. Given the approach, teaching all the phonograms at once, I will probably hold off till he is about five but will probably use the word family approach earlier since I can see that he will want to read sooner. I will then switch him to Spalding at 5 when he should be more mature to handle learning all the phonograms at once.

 

Thank you for all your support. Do you still post on the Spalding forums? I don't have time for more than one forum but will probably head there if I need more help while setting this up. I am looking to buy soon so that I have lots of time to prepare for the fall :).

Edited March 19, 2011 by Guest

[abrightmom]

Marie,

 

I was just reading a Phonics Road thread and you were expressing strong interest in using PR. What changed your mind? I'd love to hear your story and if you want to link me to a thread where you fleshed it out that would be so helpful!!

 

I started reading WRTR 5th edition yesterday. LOVING it and not finding it overwhelming at all. That is very strange as I was expecting it to read like a foreign language but it's really not difficult to grasp. :001_smile: Maybe my PR experience helps because there are strong similarities.

 

Thanks! :001_smile:

[Guest]

Marie,

 

I was just reading a Phonics Road thread and you were expressing strong interest in using PR. What changed your mind? I'd love to hear your story and if you want to link me to a thread where you fleshed it out that would be so helpful!!

 

I started reading WRTR 5th edition yesterday. LOVING it and not finding it overwhelming at all. That is very strange as I was expecting it to read like a foreign language but it's really not difficult to grasp. :001_smile: Maybe my PR experience helps because there are strong similarities.

 

Thanks! :001_smile:

 

Nope, WRTR is not difficult to read and understand. I was so impressed by the Spalding method after borrowing the book from the library that I bought it and started switching my son's handwriting to the Spalding approach almost immediately. The approach I had been using was very close so very few changes were needed. I stumbled however when it came down to implementing it and making an actual daily/ weekly plan. Truth is I did not put in enough time into doing that. We use TOG and that takes up a lot of my time and we are also using BFSU and I put in a lot of prep work there. I have now started preparing for TOG Year 2 ahead of time getting SOTW from the library and trying to get some of the books on the list too in order to make my book list and also work on my schedule so that I don't have much work to do when the time comes next year.

 

Coming to your question about PR. Not sure which thread you saw it in but if it's the one I had started you may have noticed at the start that I did say my original goal was the implement the WRTR. I was hoping to use PR to make the planning part easier on myself but having to buy two levels in order to do this (1 and 2) just did not make sense to me for MY child. He is reading at least at the 6th grade level and decoding polysyllable words easily. He is a natural speller and so my main reason for looking into this in the first place was spelling. I want him to know the rules and why he is spelling the words the way he is. Spelling naturally is great (he has a great visual memory) but just not good enough for this mom ;). With WRTR I can use the program as a whole or break it up and use it for my main focus, spelling. This is still to be determined. I also like WWE and FLL. My son has really taken off with those two. WWE has helped with his narration and he loves the copywork sheets, even though the lines are to wide for him at this point. It has also helped a timid writer start to write his own stories, which was beyond what I expected this soon. FLL is slow grammar wise for him, and I am cool with that. He is getting a lot from Horizons Phonics also but FLL has helped him with expression. He loves the stories and picture narrations. He is also reciting the poems, which he also learns from the first lesson usually. He was shy prior to FLL. Now he recites his poems to his dad and is proud of himself. He is also at that stage where he likes making connections to the meanings. Everything has become meaningful to him now. We had quite a discussion over the poem "Work" when we did that. And the others too.

 

Had I gone with PR a part of me would still be saying that Spalding was what my gut was telling me all along and whenever I have ignored my instincts I have lived to regret it. Also, with PR, adding in WWE and FLL would have probably been overkill, especially since we were going to accelerate through PR1 to get to PR2. Yet another point was my goal for grammar. For a long time now (another gut feeling decision) my goal has been to add in Shurley English. I can easily now get both programs (FLL and Shurley) and use the components that I want to work on the areas I feel we need to. PR would have just been too much handholding for me and not meeting my son's needs at the various levels he is at with LA. It was one of the main reasons why I walked away from SL LA after using it for about 10 weeks when my son was around 4 1/2 - 5. Way... below his reading level, too much where writing is concerned... and the list goes on. I find that integrated programs work great for the kids that progress evenly through the various areas of LA. We are not in that category and using various programs just helps me target the areas that I want/ need to work on. My two year old seems the same way. He is already using books and telling us the letters in words. He has now slowly started to learn the sounds of the letters too. PR would have had me walk along someone else's designed path rather than my paving our own path based on where my kids are at.

 

Sorry for rambling. I hope this explains to you my thought process on this a little :).

Edited March 20, 2011 by Guest

[abrightmom]

Marie,

 

Thanks for sharing your story! It does help and I enjoy reading the thought processes behind others' plans. Your plan is a very good one although I'm sure Tina would love to have you in the PR gang! It's a wonderful group of Moms!

 

I don't know what I'll do although I AM enjoying WRTR and it's an easy read. What I DO know is that I'm in a curriculum pickle right now and there's no easy way out . . . :auto:

 

Thanks!

[Guest]

Marie,

 

Thanks for sharing your story! It does help and I enjoy reading the thought processes behind others' plans. Your plan is a very good one although I'm sure Tina would love to have you in the PR gang! It's a wonderful group of Moms!

 

I don't know what I'll do although I AM enjoying WRTR and it's an easy read. What I DO know is that I'm in a curriculum pickle right now and there's no easy way out . . . :auto:

 

Thanks!

 

PR is a great program and up there on the list of excellent picks :) (my opinion). I did consider it when I was getting a little desperate about simplifying but then I remembered that it's not about me but my boys and meeting their needs where they are at.

 

I am considering joining Tina when we hit the level of the Latin Road. The Latin Road approaches Latin the way I want to in my family and I think it will be a good fit when we get to that point. I just wish there were more reviews on it, I have not seen much in the area of posts when the question has been asked on the forums here. Hopefully there will be some when we are ready to add it to our school year. I am still not sure when (at what grade) we will consider jumping on board but for now it is at the top of my list when the time comes :).