Guest Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 you are a bad influence you know that? :p I have never checked Phonics Road before (I have no idea why). I just downloaded the sample DVD's and now I am hooked. Now I'm thinking... OK, coming off my soapbox now :leaving:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Yes she is.:) But you are too! Not to hijack here, but I really appreciated your vocabulary page, which got me to thinking. Maybe I can do this too?! I've spent hours now making notebooking pages. I feel so powerful.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Yes she is.:) But you are too! Not to hijack here, but I really appreciated your vocabulary page, which got me to thinking. Maybe I can do this too?! I've spent hours now making notebooking pages. I feel so powerful.:D You are not hijacking at all. There was no particular purpose to this thread other than to say how impressed I am with what I have seen so far from PR and how it looks like it will cover many of my needs ;). Tina has some great posts on it, which inspired me to finally take a look. This is the first time I am actually considering dropping Horizons Phonics next year (which has worked well for us) and ETC to try to get the budget to buy PR. That only gives me $100 but we'll see how it works out. I still want to keep FLL and WWE... but PR will definitely make Horizons Phonics and ETC no longer necessary for us. Thank you for posting though. It feels good to know I have inspired someone :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Once again, I am in seach of an evil laughing smilie! If you get PR, do you know how easy it is to list your materials! :D:lol: LA - PR! Humanities - TOG Fill in the math and science and viola! Throw in some logic and you're good to go! I like small to do lists! Don't you? PR Rocks....ppsssstt have you heard about PR? I just put all my PR & LR on one shelf today and it looks awesome! I'm giddy! Remember Vincent Price's laugh in the thriller video....well, that's me laughing now....bwwaaahhahahaha bwwaahahahahah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Tina, I have to chime in to agree on your bad influence. ;) I am expecting PR1 to arrive in the mail tomorrow...:drool5: And on a totally random note, I had a dream this weekend that I went to your house to look at curricula, then stayed for a week to take care of your pet ostrich while you went on vacation.... You don't have a pet ostrich, do you? :lol: Edited January 17, 2011 by bonniebeth4 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Once again, I am in seach of an evil laughing smilie! If you get PR, do you know how easy it is to list your materials! :D:lol: LA - PR! Humanities - TOG Fill in the math and science and viola! Throw in some logic and you're good to go! I like small to do lists! Don't you? PR Rocks....ppsssstt have you heard about PR? I just put all my PR & LR on one shelf today and it looks awesome! I'm giddy! Remember Vincent Price's laugh in the thriller video....well, that's me laughing now....bwwaaahhahahaha bwwaahahahahah Are you looking at my loooong list after Adrian's name :o? LA especially, is my weakness. We left Canada and moved back to Greece when I was in Elementary school and well, lets just say that the work the private schools (in the evenings after Greek school) did in English leave much to be desired. I had been looking for a packaged curriculum to work for what I want (fill in my huuuuge gaps) before I can teach my son and was just not getting anywhere. I cannot even begin to describe on how many levels PR seems to meet my needs! I bought Spalding's WRTR in the fall, hoping to implement it but alas, with everything else (especially all the new, teacher-mommy intensive things) we are doing, I am just not finding the time to set it up in a fashion that makes me comfortable. Feeling my weaknesses in LA is not helping either. PR will give me structure. My only concern now is the level. I really want to start Adrian from Level 1 and accelerate it but buying two packages in one year is a definite ouch :banghead:. I have to think about that. I would hate to just jump in at level 2. I think I may have to take RS4K out also :tongue_smilie:and just keep going with BFSU and Apologia. Streamlining, streamlining that's what I have to keep thinking. By the way, enjoy your beautiful shelf :). I thought I heard that evil laugh ringing in my head :smilielol5:! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Tina, I have to chime in to agree on your bad influence. ;) I am expecting PR1 to arrive in the mail tomorrow...:drool5: And on a totally random note, I had a dream this weekend that I went to your house to look at curricula, then stayed for a week to take care of your pet ostrich while you went on vacation.... You don't have a pet ostrich, do you? :lol: :smilielol5: Are we related? You have the same kind of weird dreams that I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Tina, I have to chime in to agree on your bad influence. ;) I am expecting PR1 to arrive in the mail tomorrow...:drool5: And on a totally random note, I had a dream this weekend that I went to your house to look at curricula, then stayed for a week to take care of your pet ostrich while you went on vacation.... You don't have a pet ostrich, do you? :lol: No, but I do prefer ostrich feather dusters? I do however have a hound/lab that could substitute for a small pony. Are you looking at my loooong list after Adrian's name :o? LA especially, is my weakness. We left Canada and moved back to Greece when I was in Elementary school and well, lets just say that the work the private schools (in the evenings after Greek school) did in English leave much to be desired. I had been looking for a packaged curriculum to work for what I want (fill in my huuuuge gaps) before I can teach my son and was just not getting anywhere. I cannot even begin to describe on how many levels PR seems to meet my needs! I bought Spalding's WRTR in the fall, hoping to implement it but alas, with everything else (especially all the new, teacher-mommy intensive things) we are doing, I am just not finding the time to set it up in a fashion that makes me comfortable. Feeling my weaknesses in LA is not helping either. PR will give me structure. My only concern now is the level. I really want to start Adrian from Level 1 and accelerate it but buying two packages in one year is a definite ouch :banghead:. I have to think about that. I would hate to just jump in at level 2. I think I may have to take RS4K out also :tongue_smilie:and just keep going with BFSU and Apologia. Streamlining, streamlining that's what I have to keep thinking. By the way, enjoy your beautiful shelf :). I thought I heard that evil laugh ringing in my head :smilielol5:! For me PR equals no gaps and I love it! I hear you though about coughing up the $ for 2 levels in one year. I felt the pinch, myself a couple of years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) No, but I do prefer ostrich feather dusters? I do however have a hound/lab that could substitute for a small pony. For me PR equals no gaps and I love it! I hear you though about coughing up the $ for 2 levels in one year. I felt the pinch, myself a couple of years ago. OK, I know I can find a way because I want to. I am pretty much sold on PR so I will do what it takes. Phonics for now (although ETC and Horizons have been good at introducing the rules), still seems a little disjointed and all over the place. Adrian's reading is above level (his writing and spelling at this point appear to be also) but that does not stop me from seeing LA as it should be, a whole package with various components, and wanting my son to be able to see how the various components are interconnected. Right now, with all the programs and even though we are happy with what we are using, LA still feels scattered and all over the place. It does not help my sanity. It helps that I have a budget from our school also but with all the things I end up getting (my son adds a pretty long list of books that he gets from the library, likes, and then wants us to buy them) the budget falls short. Thank goodness I have TOG Years 1-3 and don't have to worry about buying those again. I should be able to use the library more next year with TOG. As I recall, I was able to find many more of the books from Year 2, than I did from year 1 when I had checked. For year 1 I was barely finding any. Anyway, we will see how it goes. I have been using the library this year for BFSU (it's a trial run this year since we did not have libraries in the Middle East to rely on) and it has been working really well so far. I have not paid any late fees (I am cheap that way and hate wasting money on that :tongue_smilie:) and I am ensuring we have the books when we need them. So that should be an option to cut back on costs somewhere. Then, if there's a book we like and regret not buying it, we can just get it at a later date. I have already noticed that I could have done without at least a couple of books from Year 1 LG. I have one quick question for you (for now ;)). I did a search and found several older posts of yours on PR. I found one where you mention that you would only add grammar to Level 1. From level two, additional grammar is no longer required. So then, am I clear that we will not need grammar past the first Level at all? From what I see, additional writing is also not needed, or would this be after the first level also? It is quite clear to me that additional vocabulary is not needed either, so we would be taking out WW3000 after this year also. Correct? I am still leaning towards keeping FLL and WWE. I have seen FLL and WWE help Adrian in many areas so far and will not be quick at letting those go :p but I want to be absolutely clear that should I decide to drop everything else, we will be completely covered with PR where LA is concerned. I remember you saying somewhere that you use the TOG writing. So far I have been using it also, for the most part, although I do change or omit certain things. Do you add any other kind of writing besides beyond that? Where grammar is concerned, we were going to switch to Shurley after FLL. However, PR has the songs just like Shurley, which is one of the things that sold me with Shurley. I know it will be a good approach for Adrian. He is mildly kinesthetic and connecting some song and movement to retain something really helps too. I guess he gets that from me. So at this point even though I want to keep FLL, PR seems so much better laid out and organized than Shurley. So I may just continue with FLL for the first levels (leaving out the new levels that are coming out). Anyway, sorry I am thinking out loud. One thing that stuck in my head was B. Beers comment (in the samples) about not seeing gaps in advanced readers spelling until after the 5th grade. It has been one thing that has troubled me and I considered AAS last year but it would have been just another Phonics program at that point that we did not need. Adrian has been getting the Phonics rules through ETC and especially through Horizons Phonics and I just hate jumping from one program to another because in my mind, that's the best recipe for GAPS. PR however covers everything I need and will be great for using with Malcolm from the start also. Coming to Malcolm, I read in another thread that one can put together a similar package for their other children on their own (it was your comment by the way ;)). I would rather not do that and since I have a school budget and most things we buy will be used with Malcolm also, I will not need to worry about costs with him. However, my only concern is changes to the curriculum. What I mean is, if Malcolm starts PR Level 1 in K (three years from now) is it possible that there may be so many changes that I may need to buy the teacher's materials again in order to line them up with the student's notebook? I hate to have to spend the money on that also now. So in other words, do you know what the procedure is when it comes to updates, possible corrections etc. For example, I noticed that someone in Homeschool Reviews mentioned that there was no transition from manuscript to cursive in PR 2. It was just added in briefly at the end of PR 2 and then in PR 3, they jump straight into cursive. This review was since 2008 (2009?) and I have since noticed that this has been added into PR Level 2. So, in this case also, what happens to those that have the old packages, do they have to update at full price? Hmmm... more questions than I anticipated. Sorry! You will notice that most of it is rambling though :lol:, which proves my point. I really need to work on my language skills also :smilielol5:. Edited January 18, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 No, but I do prefer ostrich feather dusters? So that's what happened to your pet ostrich :smilielol5:? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveBaby Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) OK, I know I can find a way because I want to. I am pretty much sold on PR so I will do what it takes. Phonics for now (although ETC and Horizons have been good at introducing the rules), still seems a little disjointed and all over the place. Adrian's reading is above level (his writing and spelling at this point appear to be also) but that does not stop me from seeing LA as it should be, a whole package with various components, and wanting my son to be able to see how the various components are interconnected. Right now, with all the programs and even though we are happy with what we are using, LA still feels scattered and all over the place. It does not help my sanity. It helps that I have a budget from our school also but with all the things I end up getting (my son adds a pretty long list of books that he gets from the library, likes, and then wants us to buy them) the budget falls short. Thank goodness I have TOG Years 1-3 and don't have to worry about buying those again. I should be able to use the library more next year with TOG. As I recall, I was able to find many more of the books from Year 2, than I did from year 1 when I had checked. For year 1 I was barely finding any. Anyway, we will see how it goes. I have been using the library this year for BFSU (it's a trial run this year since we did not have libraries in the Middle East to rely on) and it has been working really well so far. I have not paid any late fees (I am cheap that way and hate wasting money on that :tongue_smilie:) and I am ensuring we have the books when we need them. So that should be an option to cut back on costs somewhere. Then, if there's a book we like and regret not buying it, we can just get it at a later date. I have already noticed that I could have done without at least a couple of books from Year 1 LG. I have one quick question for you (for now ;)). I did a search and found several older posts of yours on PR. I found one where you mention that you would only add grammar to Level 1. From level two, additional grammar is no longer required. So then, am I clear that we will not need grammar past the first Level at all? From what I see, additional writing is also not needed, or would this be after the first level also? It is quite clear to me that additional vocabulary is not needed either, so we would be taking out WW3000 after this year also. Correct? I am still leaning towards keeping FLL and WWE. I have seen FLL and WWE help Adrian in many areas so far and will not be quick at letting those go :p but I want to be absolutely clear that should I decide to drop everything else, we will be completely covered with PR where LA is concerned. I remember you saying somewhere that you use the TOG writing. So far I have been using it also, for the most part, although I do change or omit certain things. Do you add any other kind of writing besides beyond that? Where grammar is concerned, we were going to switch to Shurley after FLL. However, PR has the songs just like Shurley, which is one of the things that sold me with Shurley. I know it will be a good approach for Adrian. He is mildly kinesthetic and connecting some song and movement to retain something really helps too. I guess he gets that from me. So at this point even though I want to keep FLL, PR seems so much better laid out and organized than Shurley. So I may just continue with FLL for the first levels (leaving out the new levels that are coming out). Anyway, sorry I am thinking out loud. One thing that stuck in my head was B. Beers comment (in the samples) about not seeing gaps in advanced readers spelling until after the 5th grade. It has been one thing that has troubled me and I considered AAS last year but it would have been just another Phonics program at that point that we did not need. Adrian has been getting the Phonics rules through ETC and especially through Horizons Phonics and I just hate jumping from one program to another because in my mind, that's the best recipe for GAPS. PR however covers everything I need and will be great for using with Malcolm from the start also. Coming to Malcolm, I read in another thread that one can put together a similar package for their other children on their own (it was your comment by the way ;)). I would rather not do that and since I have a school budget and most things we buy will be used with Malcolm also, I will not need to worry about costs with him. However, my only concern is changes to the curriculum. What I mean is, if Malcolm starts PR Level 1 in K (three years from now) is it possible that there may be so many changes that I may need to buy the teacher's materials again in order to line them up with the student's notebook? I hate to have to spend the money on that also now. So in other words, do you know what the procedure is when it comes to updates, possible corrections etc. For example, I noticed that someone in Homeschool Reviews mentioned that there was no transition from manuscript to cursive in PR 2. It was just added in briefly at the end of PR 2 and then in PR 3, they jump straight into cursive. This review was since 2008 (2009?) and I have since noticed that this has been added into PR Level 2. So, in this case also, what happens to those that have the old packages, do they have to update at full price? Hmmm... more questions than I anticipated. Sorry! You will notice that most of it is rambling though :lol:, which proves my point. I really need to work on my language skills also :smilielol5:. There is basic, light grammar included in Level 1. Basic and light being the key words. IMHO, I wouldn't add any grammar for a student entering level one in the 1st or 2nd grade, however, if you are using it with an older student something else might be good *just* for Level 1. I'm of the more Charlotte Mason philosophy on the grammar front though, so I wouldn't worry about it until 3rd-4th grade or so. It significantly picks up in Level's 2 and beyond and it would be redundant to do both. Additional writing instruction wouldn't be necessary either, unless, again you are starting an older student in level 1. I chose to use WWE with my students as we were going through Level 1 because I thought it gave them some very good foundational skills. I really don't think we'll continue as we move into level 2 though. WWE is pretty great, but I don't think it will be necessary anymore *and* I won't have time to teach 2 levels of PR to 3 different students *and* WWE to 3 students! My level 2 is copyright 2004 and includes the transition lessons from manuscript to cursive. I wonder if the reviewer didn't feel there were enough lessons for transition. It is added at the end of level 2 and then does jump right into Level 3 in complete cursive. I haven't reached that point yet with my younger students, but I plan on getting an extra cursive book at that time for extra practice in cursive writing. Either I Can Write Cursive published by Christian Light Education (not secular) or Pentime Grade 3, both have ample copywork of sentences and later paragraphs, well laid out and very inexpensive!) As for buying now and needing student pages in 3 years, I'm not really sure what Mrs. Beers would update to make the current sets old. Especially with the DVD content, that would be really expensive to update the DVD teacher's manual, so I'm doubtful that a TM becoming obsolete is going to happen. It is really, really great! I'm teaching my K'er how to read with Phonics Road and it is going really well. I'm also using it with my older 2 students to remediate spelling/ reading and that is going well, too! Edited January 18, 2011 by LoveBaby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 OK, I know I can find a way because I want to. I am pretty much sold on PR so I will do what it takes. Phonics for now (although ETC and Horizons have been good at introducing the rules), still seems a little disjointed and all over the place. Adrian's reading is above level (his writing and spelling at this point appear to be also) but that does not stop me from seeing LA as it should be, a whole package with various components, and wanting my son to be able to see how the various components are interconnected. Right now, with all the programs and even though we are happy with what we are using, LA still feels scattered and all over the place. It does not help my sanity. I know just what you mean. I like the focus from one source for me, but also for the dc. It seems to matter. It helps that I have a budget from our school also but with all the things I end up getting (my son adds a pretty long list of books that he gets from the library, likes, and then wants us to buy them) the budget falls short. Thank goodness I have TOG Years 1-3 and don't have to worry about buying those again. I should be able to use the library more next year with TOG. As I recall, I was able to find many more of the books from Year 2, than I did from year 1 when I had checked. For year 1 I was barely finding any. Anyway, we will see how it goes. I have been using the library this year for BFSU (it's a trial run this year since we did not have libraries in the Middle East to rely on) and it has been working really well so far. I have not paid any late fees (I am cheap that way and hate wasting money on that :tongue_smilie:) and I am ensuring we have the books when we need them. So that should be an option to cut back on costs somewhere. Then, if there's a book we like and regret not buying it, we can just get it at a later date. I have already noticed that I could have done without at least a couple of books from Year 1 LG. I have come to the same conclusion. I buy as I see the need or if I'm sure we'll come back around. I don't both much w/ book updates b/c if it worked well for the first lot, I don't need to change it. That helps with budget and teaching is always easier the second time around. I had no problem getting books from the library for years 2 or 3. I imagine year 1 will be tough, what with all the biblical content. It's much easier to bleed $5 or $20 out of the monthly budget than to drop a huge sum all at once. I have one quick question for you (for now ;)). I did a search and found several older posts of yours on PR. I found one where you mention that you would only add grammar to Level 1. From level two, additional grammar is no longer required. So then, am I clear that we will not need grammar past the first Level at all? You're clear. If you choose to add grammar, I think FLL is a nice compliment. You'll get started in Level 1 on grammar, but only after the majority of the reading instruction comes to pass; which makes sense as you'll be incorporating dictation early on. Then you'll slowly get into grammar and hit it pretty hard in Level 2 and beyond. In hindsight, I will most likely read Grammarland to those using PR to learn to read, instead of bothering with FLL. If you can get the basic definitions memorized (parts of speech), then I really think that is more than enough for grammar until you reach level 2. Thinking about it, TOG WA does introduce parts of speech so gently, that you may be happy pulling from there, too. From what I see, additional writing is also not needed, or would this be after the first level also? There is a ton of handwriting practice initially, then pretty quickly, you'll get to dictation of simple sentences. I find it is more than enough for that level of writing. I would not add a thing for writing to level 1. It is quite clear to me that additional vocabulary is not needed either, so we would be taking out WW3000 after this year also. Correct? Yes :) You're gonna LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the word study. My dd is retaining every bit of it; which is more than I can say from our experience from the WW series. I am still leaning towards keeping FLL and WWE. I have seen FLL and WWE help Adrian in many areas so far and will not be quick at letting those go :p but I want to be absolutely clear that should I decide to drop everything else, we will be completely covered with PR where LA is concerned. Totally covered. You'll soon see that having both will be unnecessarily redundant. I remember you saying somewhere that you use the TOG writing. So far I have been using it also, for the most part, although I do change or omit certain things. Do you add any other kind of writing besides beyond that? No, I don't. In fact, as we move along in the PR writing in level 3, I have dropped WA with my 5th grader and have instead been focusing on outlines follow the PR recs, and from them, we are summarizing, which is also applying the skills learned in PR. It's working out beautifully. It is very similar to WTM recs, save the outlines have more lines than the SWB writing recs. It is working out beautifully. After PR4, we will head into WriteShop (b/c I love the specific instruction for all genres of writing), then back to WA in high school. It's a very solid and well rounded writing plan and I'm very, very pleased with it. Finally, I'm SET for writing! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Where grammar is concerned, we were going to switch to Shurley after FLL. However, PR has the songs just like Shurley, which is one of the things that sold me with Shurley. I know it will be a good approach for Adrian. He is mildly kinesthetic and connecting some song and movement to retain something really helps too. I guess he gets that from me. So at this point even though I want to keep FLL, PR seems so much better laid out and organized than Shurley. So I may just continue with FLL for the first levels (leaving out the new levels that are coming out). We actually stand up and sing much of the time. We need to keep the squiggly and wiggly wonder twins moving over here, too :) Anyway, sorry I am thinking out loud. One thing that stuck in my head was B. Beers comment (in the samples) about not seeing gaps in advanced readers spelling until after the 5th grade. It has been one thing that has troubled me and I considered AAS last year but it would have been just another Phonics program at that point that we did not need. Adrian has been getting the Phonics rules through ETC and especially through Horizons Phonics and I just hate jumping from one program to another because in my mind, that's the best recipe for GAPS. PR however covers everything I need and will be great for using with Malcolm from the start also. So true. My dd(now 12) was an early everything in school, and it wasn't until 4th grade I realized she had phonics gaps. My eldest son showed weakness in spelling by end of 3rd grade, but it wasn't until 5th grade that I realized the problem ran deeper and touched phonics and reading, as well. We remediated them both with PR and for my son, the problems are gone. My daughter is going to spend some time walking through PR a bit more with Rule Tunes this summer. She needs to iron out some spelling, so we need to put in some more time on rules. I so wish I would have taken them from start to finish with PR. It would have saved us a lot of frustration, catch up time and money spent on poor solutions. Coming to Malcolm, I read in another thread that one can put together a similar package for their other children on their own (it was your comment by the way ;)). I would rather not do that and since I have a school budget and most things we buy will be used with Malcolm also, I will not need to worry about costs with him. However, my only concern is changes to the curriculum. What I mean is, if Malcolm starts PR Level 1 in K (three years from now) is it possible that there may be so many changes that I may need to buy the teacher's materials again in order to line them up with the student's notebook? I hate to have to spend the money on that also now. So in other words, do you know what the procedure is when it comes to updates, possible corrections etc. For example, I noticed that someone in Homeschool Reviews mentioned that there was no transition from manuscript to cursive in PR 2. It was just added in briefly at the end of PR 2 and then in PR 3, they jump straight into cursive. This review was since 2008 (2009?) and I have since noticed that this has been added into PR Level 2. So, in this case also, what happens to those that have the old packages, do they have to update at full price? Hmmm... more questions than I anticipated. Sorry! You will notice that most of it is rambling though :lol:, which proves my point. I really need to work on my language skills also :smilielol5:. I'm agreeing w/ Jesse here. The design of the program is pretty complete and with the DVD instruction, it would be terribly expensive for Mrs. Beers to change drastically. Honestly, I don't see any need for revision. The program got a makeover a couple of years back, but that was to add color to the binders (cover) and added the DVD training. The nuts and bolts stayed the same. So far as cursive, there are solid weeks of instruction in Level 2 that teach how to write each letter, then practice with writing sentences in the form of grammar review. When the dc start level 3, it is entirely in cursive as the practice, so you don't need anything additional. The material is initially review and practice, so the student won't have to think heavily on content, but be able to focus on cursive writing with words that are review in nature. This gives the opportunity to write in cursive, review grammar, and practice spelling old words in a new way (cursive). Expect that the first month of cursive writing will be slow moving, but after that, they'll create a building code with all the letters written out and have a handy dandy reference page. There is honestly, no need to supplement. I've taught 3 dc using the method so far, and we have No issues. I'm actually gonna make my 8th grader do it this summer b/c his cursive writing and reading is terrible. We used HWT with him and it never really transferred into real life. I'm always happy to talk PR. Feel free to ramble :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I have to get off the forums for now but will be back a little later to reply. In the mean time thank you both for your replies to my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 There is basic, light grammar included in Level 1. Basic and light being the key words. IMHO, I wouldn't add any grammar for a student entering level one in the 1st or 2nd grade, however, if you are using it with an older student something else might be good *just* for Level 1. I'm of the more Charlotte Mason philosophy on the grammar front though, so I wouldn't worry about it until 3rd-4th grade or so. It significantly picks up in Level's 2 and beyond and it would be redundant to do both. Additional writing instruction wouldn't be necessary either, unless, again you are starting an older student in level 1. I chose to use WWE with my students as we were going through Level 1 because I thought it gave them some very good foundational skills. I really don't think we'll continue as we move into level 2 though. WWE is pretty great, but I don't think it will be necessary anymore *and* I won't have time to teach 2 levels of PR to 3 different students *and* WWE to 3 students! My level 2 is copyright 2004 and includes the transition lessons from manuscript to cursive. I wonder if the reviewer didn't feel there were enough lessons for transition. It is added at the end of level 2 and then does jump right into Level 3 in complete cursive. I haven't reached that point yet with my younger students, but I plan on getting an extra cursive book at that time for extra practice in cursive writing. Either I Can Write Cursive published by Christian Light Education (not secular) or Pentime Grade 3, both have ample copywork of sentences and later paragraphs, well laid out and very inexpensive!) As for buying now and needing student pages in 3 years, I'm not really sure what Mrs. Beers would update to make the current sets old. Especially with the DVD content, that would be really expensive to update the DVD teacher's manual, so I'm doubtful that a TM becoming obsolete is going to happen. It is really, really great! I'm teaching my K'er how to read with Phonics Road and it is going really well. I'm also using it with my older 2 students to remediate spelling/ reading and that is going well, too! Nope, not remediating but thank you for letting me know that we won't be needing anything extra. We are currently using Horizons Phonics and ETC but will be dropping them next year after we start PR. We would only have had one year left with them anyway. We are also using FLL and WWE but I will be keeping those. It's good to know that I can stop them at any time though, if we feel like we are burning out since they would be extras. Your comment about the changes in PR and the costs involved makes sense. I definitely see your point. Good too because it is already difficult trying to figure out how to buy two levels of PR in one year :tongue_smilie:, at least I won't have to worry about buying another student notebook to save. Taking out Horizons, ETC, WW3000 and RS4K pretty much covers one level of PR. The other I will have to buy out-of-pocket. In the review I read it seems the poster did not find that the cursive lessons were enough. She did mention that it was covered briefly at the end of PR2 and then jumped right in with cursive in PR3. I am not that overly concerned though. I made some changes in my son's handwriting (I still have him using manuscript), just some minor changes, in order to follow Spalding. I can always put in some extra practice in cursive with Spalding again, if I have to. I was more concerned about the changes in the Teacher's materials but you covered it quite well with your point about the expense in having to change the DVD's. Thank you for your input :) ETA: Adrian has a late October birthday and will be 8 in October and in grade 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Originally Posted by 4evercanucks OK, I know I can find a way because I want to. I am pretty much sold on PR so I will do what it takes. Phonics for now (although ETC and Horizons have been good at introducing the rules), still seems a little disjointed and all over the place. Adrian's reading is above level (his writing and spelling at this point appear to be also) but that does not stop me from seeing LA as it should be, a whole package with various components, and wanting my son to be able to see how the various components are interconnected. Right now, with all the programs and even though we are happy with what we are using, LA still feels scattered and all over the place. It does not help my sanity. I know just what you mean. I like the focus from one source for me, but also for the dc. It seems to matter. It helps that I have a budget from our school also but with all the things I end up getting (my son adds a pretty long list of books that he gets from the library, likes, and then wants us to buy them) the budget falls short. Thank goodness I have TOG Years 1-3 and don't have to worry about buying those again. I should be able to use the library more next year with TOG. As I recall, I was able to find many more of the books from Year 2, than I did from year 1 when I had checked. For year 1 I was barely finding any. Anyway, we will see how it goes. I have been using the library this year for BFSU (it's a trial run this year since we did not have libraries in the Middle East to rely on) and it has been working really well so far. I have not paid any late fees (I am cheap that way and hate wasting money on that :tongue_smilie:) and I am ensuring we have the books when we need them. So that should be an option to cut back on costs somewhere. Then, if there's a book we like and regret not buying it, we can just get it at a later date. I have already noticed that I could have done without at least a couple of books from Year 1 LG. I have come to the same conclusion. I buy as I see the need or if I'm sure we'll come back around. I don't both much w/ book updates b/c if it worked well for the first lot, I don't need to change it. That helps with budget and teaching is always easier the second time around. I had no problem getting books from the library for years 2 or 3. I imagine year 1 will be tough, what with all the biblical content. It's much easier to bleed $5 or $20 out of the monthly budget than to drop a huge sum all at once. Nope, I have no intention of buying updates to books with TOG either, unless it is some major change that warrants the expense. I have one quick question for you (for now ;)). I did a search and found several older posts of yours on PR. I found one where you mention that you would only add grammar to Level 1. From level two, additional grammar is no longer required. So then, am I clear that we will not need grammar past the first Level at all? You're clear. If you choose to add grammar, I think FLL is a nice compliment. You'll get started in Level 1 on grammar, but only after the majority of the reading instruction comes to pass; which makes sense as you'll be incorporating dictation early on. Then you'll slowly get into grammar and hit it pretty hard in Level 2 and beyond. In hindsight, I will most likely read Grammarland to those using PR to learn to read, instead of bothering with FLL. If you can get the basic definitions memorized (parts of speech), then I really think that is more than enough for grammar until you reach level 2. Thinking about it, TOG WA does introduce parts of speech so gently, that you may be happy pulling from there, too. We are currently using FLL 1 and will continue with FLL 2 next year. I am also using TOG's parts of speech activities but with all the LA we are currently doing I just have Adrian write his words on a notebook sheet, instead of cards. We are therefore not following the forming sentences activity for now because I did not feel we need it with everything else we are doing. Getting PR in my hands, I am hoping will also help me formulate a plan with Malcolm. I think he will be an early reader also, earlier than even Adrian (Adrian started at 3 1/2 with CVC's and at 4 we started a program) and I am hoping I may be able to use some components to start with Malcolm also. I'm not sure at what age yet but I know it will be way before Kindergarten. From what I see, additional writing is also not needed, or would this be after the first level also? There is a ton of handwriting practice initially, then pretty quickly, you'll get to dictation of simple sentences. I find it is more than enough for that level of writing. I would not add a thing for writing to level 1. It is quite clear to me that additional vocabulary is not needed either, so we would be taking out WW3000 after this year also. Correct? Yes :) You're gonna LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the word study. My dd is retaining every bit of it; which is more than I can say from our experience from the WW series. I am still leaning towards keeping FLL and WWE. I have seen FLL and WWE help Adrian in many areas so far and will not be quick at letting those go :p but I want to be absolutely clear that should I decide to drop everything else, we will be completely covered with PR where LA is concerned. Totally covered. You'll soon see that having both will be unnecessarily redundant. I will be keeping WWE for now as well but as I said to Jesse, it's good to know I can drop them (FLL and WWE) if things become too much. With Wordly Wise 3000, I bought it again this year (the grade 1 package) mostly because the K and 1 packages come as a kit with concept cards and word cards and Adrian enjoyed the format. Of course in grade 2, the kids being older, that stops so WW was already on my list of possible programs to be ditched :tongue_smilie:. I will take things with FLL and WWE year by year and see how it goes. Maybe I will stop after next year or maybe I will continue if I see some benefit in using them at the same time as PR. We shall see. I remember you saying somewhere that you use the TOG writing. So far I have been using it also, for the most part, although I do change or omit certain things. Do you add any other kind of writing beyond that? No, I don't. In fact, as we move along in the PR writing in level 3, I have dropped WA with my 5th grader and have instead been focusing on outlines follow the PR recs, and from them, we are summarizing, which is also applying the skills learned in PR. It's working out beautifully. It is very similar to WTM recs, save the outlines have more lines than the SWB writing recs. It is working out beautifully. After PR4, we will head into WriteShop (b/c I love the specific instruction for all genres of writing), then back to WA in high school. It's a very solid and well rounded writing plan and I'm very, very pleased with it. Finally, I'm SET for writing! For writing, at around grade 4, I actually have my heart set on Classical Writing. It's the Greek in me talking I guess :tongue_smilie:. Just kidding! I really like the program though, so I am looking at heading there, and perhaps adding some WA. While I like thinking far ahead, I try not to commit myself too much. I have found out the hard way that my mind and needs may change two/ three years down the road :lol:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Originally Posted by 4evercanucksWhere grammar is concerned, we were going to switch to Shurley after FLL. However, PR has the songs just like Shurley, which is one of the things that sold me with Shurley. I know it will be a good approach for Adrian. He is mildly kinesthetic and connecting some song and movement to retain something really helps too. I guess he gets that from me. So at this point even though I want to keep FLL, PR seems so much better laid out and organized than Shurley. So I may just continue with FLL for the first levels (leaving out the new levels that are coming out). We actually stand up and sing much of the time. We need to keep the squiggly and wiggly wonder twins moving over here, too :) Anyway, sorry I am thinking out loud. One thing that stuck in my head was B. Beers comment (in the samples) about not seeing gaps in advanced readers spelling until after the 5th grade. It has been one thing that has troubled me and I considered AAS last year but it would have been just another Phonics program at that point that we did not need. Adrian has been getting the Phonics rules through ETC and especially through Horizons Phonics and I just hate jumping from one program to another because in my mind, that's the best recipe for GAPS. PR however covers everything I need and will be great for using with Malcolm from the start also. So true. My dd(now 12) was an early everything in school, and it wasn't until 4th grade I realized she had phonics gaps. My eldest son showed weakness in spelling by end of 3rd grade, but it wasn't until 5th grade that I realized the problem ran deeper and touched phonics and reading, as well. We remediated them both with PR and for my son, the problems are gone. My daughter is going to spend some time walking through PR a bit more with Rule Tunes this summer. She needs to iron out some spelling, so we need to put in some more time on rules. I so wish I would have taken them from start to finish with PR. It would have saved us a lot of frustration, catch up time and money spent on poor solutions. Coming to Malcolm, I read in another thread that one can put together a similar package for their other children on their own (it was your comment by the way ;)). I would rather not do that and since I have a school budget and most things we buy will be used with Malcolm also, I will not need to worry about costs with him. However, my only concern is changes to the curriculum. What I mean is, if Malcolm starts PR Level 1 in K (three years from now) is it possible that there may be so many changes that I may need to buy the teacher's materials again in order to line them up with the student's notebook? I hate to have to spend the money on that also now. So in other words, do you know what the procedure is when it comes to updates, possible corrections etc. For example, I noticed that someone in Homeschool Reviews mentioned that there was no transition from manuscript to cursive in PR 2. It was just added in briefly at the end of PR 2 and then in PR 3, they jump straight into cursive. This review was since 2008 (2009?) and I have since noticed that this has been added into PR Level 2. So, in this case also, what happens to those that have the old packages, do they have to update at full price? Hmmm... more questions than I anticipated. Sorry! You will notice that most of it is rambling though :lol:, which proves my point. I really need to work on my language skills also :smilielol5:. I can't even begin to describe to you how happy I am that I have found PR now. It is almost like starting it from the start with Adrian. While I am looking at accelerating Level 1, I most certainly will not attempt two levels in one year at his age. If Level 2 runs a little into grade 3 that's ok. I am hoping that by 4th we should in fact be able to finish level 4. We shall see! He has always been eager to learn, often doing school on his own using our Lauri letters and spelling words or writing them on the board, or a peace of paper... He also has a very good memory. I just want a more systematic approach when it comes to spelling (LA in general, I should say). We are already getting spelling rules though Horizons. It just feels scattered to me a little. Also, another concern was what to do after grade 2? Now, I finally have a solution. When it comes to LA, I am cool with doing a prepackaged complete program. Mommy will be learning along the way also :). I'm agreeing w/ Jesse here. The design of the program is pretty complete and with the DVD instruction, it would be terribly expensive for Mrs. Beers to change drastically. Honestly, I don't see any need for revision. The program got a makeover a couple of years back, but that was to add color to the binders (cover) and added the DVD training. The nuts and bolts stayed the same. So far as cursive, there are solid weeks of instruction in Level 2 that teach how to write each letter, then practice with writing sentences in the form of grammar review. When the dc start level 3, it is entirely in cursive as the practice, so you don't need anything additional. The material is initially review and practice, so the student won't have to think heavily on content, but be able to focus on cursive writing with words that are review in nature. This gives the opportunity to write in cursive, review grammar, and practice spelling old words in a new way (cursive). Expect that the first month of cursive writing will be slow moving, but after that, they'll create a building code with all the letters written out and have a handy dandy reference page. There is honestly, no need to supplement. I've taught 3 dc using the method so far, and we have No issues. I'm actually gonna make my 8th grader do it this summer b/c his cursive writing and reading is terrible. We used HWT with him and it never really transferred into real life. I'm always happy to talk PR. Feel free to ramble :D Yep, Jesse's point about it being expensive to make changes to the DVD's made great sense to me also. As for the cursive, I am wondering if in the edition you have they have also added in that area also. Anyway, it doesn't really matter, I am sure it will all work out and I can always add in whatever extra practice we may need. Thank you for letting me ramble :D. Since you are always happy to talk about PR and since I have linked this thread to a friend that is also interested, would you mind selling me to Latin Road also? Give me your best sales pitch (did you notice I have been reading older threads ;))? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Thank you for letting me ramble :D. Since you are always happy to talk about PR and since I have linked this thread to a friend that is also interested, would you mind selling me to Latin Road also? Give me your best sales pitch (did you notice I have been reading older threads ;))? heh heh. I have to take ds for his annual physical, but sometime today, I'll get back to you RE: LR. The program speaks for itself quite well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) heh heh. I have to take ds for his annual physical, but sometime today, I'll get back to you RE: LR. The program speaks for itself quite well! Tina, don't worry about this. PMing you with a couple of questions. Edited January 22, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Had an extra busy week last w/ outside of the house (added 2 church days, 2 baseball games, a doctor's appointment and ran around to get ds in public school track), I'd like to post about this anyways. I do believe there is a little something on my blog, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Had an extra busy week last w/ outside of the house (added 2 church days, 2 baseball games, a doctor's appointment and ran around to get ds in public school track), I'd like to post about this anyways. I do believe there is a little something on my blog, though. If you have the time to post, I would love to read it :D. I just felt that maybe I put you on the spot and I know how busy you are already. I follow your blog and did check out some of your PR posts. I did not get as far as LR. I will be checking it out when I get the chance though :). Thanks again for taking the time, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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