Mommy7 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 What Algebra program works well following R&S math? Thanks!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hscherger Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 At the Memoria Press forum I asked if Saxon Algebra 1 would work after R&S 8 and Tanya said that it would be a fine next step. The Highland Latin School (linked with MP) uses Lial's books I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllSmiles Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 We are having great success with Lial's Introductory Algebra. Like R&S, I think it does a great job of breaking the lesson into manageable chunks. We go over the lesson and my DS completes the sidebar problems on the first day, and the exercises (odds only) on the second day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy7 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Thank you all for your responses. Does Lial's Introductory Algebra have DVDs available? If so, do you know where I could find them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllSmiles Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Thank you all for your responses. Does Lial's Introductory Algebra have DVDs available? If so, do you know where I could find them? There are DVDs available, but we haven't found them necessary. The book does a great job of teaching to the student. Pearson carries the DVDs for the latest edition of the book. I think you do need to make sure that the book edition lines up with the DVD edition. However, perhaps someone with some first hand experience will speak up. Older editions of the books are readily and cheaply available. The older DVDs are little harder to find, but I have seen them. 7th Edition Teacher's Guide Student Text Student Solution Manual You could also take the time to line up the Kahn Academy videos with the text. Hippo Campus has Algebra videos as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) We've used R&S Math since 1st grade and my son is currently in the 6th grade book. I am waffling between Lial's (Jann in TX teaches online classes for this) or Math Relief after reading reviews about it recently. Math Relief is a dvd program and supposedly pretty dry, but I've read a number of enthusiastic reviews and am seriously considering it. I do know that the Highlands Latin School, which uses R&S Math in the elementary years, moves on to Lial's in the upper years. Lisa Edited January 16, 2011 by LisaTheresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3andme Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I don't have any experience with R&S, we are using CLE and a few other things right now but I have been looking at both Math Relief and Lial's as alternatives for my ds as well. I have been using both extensively to review Algebra for myself as well as to see which might work best for my son. As Jann has written previously, Lial's has very explicit and clear step-by-step teaching to the student. The layout of the text is the only downside I see. There is very little white space and the text can seem very dense and ovewhelming esp. for a younger student. Math Relief is a lesser known program so I will provide a few more details. I was also intrigued with this program yet found very little info. on it. Having gone through the most of the first two phases of Math Relief's Algebra I, I am very impressed. It is extremely thorough and incremental. Yes, it is dry and some might say boring, however, it is concise and to the point. Most of the lectures are about 15 minutes. The sample on youtube is a good example of the teaching. For comparison, based on the online samples, I found the Chalkdust instructor a bit more engaging but also more long winded than Mr. Firebaugh. I have also looked at Thinkwell, the instructor there is more animated and the segments shorter but I do not find the teaching as precise and thorough. In Math Relief, the instructor stands in front of the white board and simply explains how to work each problem step by step. Each segment, features multiple problems. There is very little extraneous talk about concepts or applications. He does a great job of pointing out typical errors or misunderstandings as well as sequencing the instruction so each lesson builds easily on the prior one. Mr. Firebaugh, the instructor, breaks every thing down so that even someone without a strong foundation in fractions/integers could follow along. For example,he doesn't discuss the rules regarding integers, but simply uses a number line to work each problem with adding integers. There are worksheets which are to be completed after each video segment. There is no instuction in the worksheets - just problems. These start off easy and get more difficult. Full worked solutions are provided for checking. I would say the exercises are very similar in progression and difficulty to those in Lial's or Foerster's. (I haven't gotten to the word problems yet so can't comment on those). There is no specific text for reference. The lack of text may be a problem for some but you could supplement by matching up topics in any standard Algebra text. The order of topics is a little unorthodox when compared with other programs. There are no word problems until Phase II and rational and radical expressions are covered earlier than other programs. Graphing is not covered until Phase III. Here is my abbr. version of the topics covered. Phase I: - Addition & Subtraction of Expressions - Combining Like Terms - Distributive law - Add/Subtraction of Polynomials - Solving Simple Equations - Multiplying Terms - Multiplying Monomials & Polynomials - Simple and Complex Factoring Phase II: - Rational Expressions (Reducing, Mult/Div, Addition with CD and Diff Den.) - Solving Equations with Rational Expression - Word Problems - Radical Expressions (incl. Extracting, Rationalizing) Phase III: - Completing the Square - Quadratic Formula - Graphing - Solving Equations Review - Simultaneous Equation This is a procedural program with little discussion of theory/concepts or abstractions. For example, while the distributive property is introduced in Phase I and used in problems, there is no proof or real discussion regarding it. This may be a negative for some but I think, conversely, it may be one of the reasons it works well with struggling students - the focus is on concrete steps and not abstractions. I think the theory portion could also be supplemented if that is a concern. So far, it seems like a very solid and rigorous program similar in scope to Foerster's or Lial's with the exception of the lack of specific instruction in mathematical properties. It is definitely not a watered down or light version of Algebra. I think part of your decision would be based on the best modality and timing for instruction - video on demand for MR vs. scheduled interactive meetings w/Jann and other students. The lack of a textbook might also be a consideration. I think I may be leaning towards Math Relief as the main program with some supplementation from Foerster's for word problems but I'm still mulling it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 What Algebra program works well following R&S math? Thanks!:001_smile: After R&S 8 is completed this coming June, we plan to move into the early 1960s Dolciani Algebra I text. I'm currently collecting all the early 1960s Dolciani high school math books. They are hard to find, though, esp. the teacher manuals and solution manuals. But, I have heard from several posters that Dolciani would work well after R&S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I don't have any experience with R&S, we are using CLE and a few other things right now but I have been looking at both Math Relief and Lial's as alternatives for my ds as well. I have been using both extensively to review Algebra for myself as well as to see which might work best for my son. As Jann has written previously, Lial's has very explicit and clear step-by-step teaching to the student. The layout of the text is the only downside I see. There is very little white space and the text can seem very dense and ovewhelming esp. for a younger student. Math Relief is a lesser known program so I will provide a few more details. I was also intrigued with this program yet found very little info. on it. Having gone through the most of the first two phases of Math Relief's Algebra I, I am very impressed. It is extremely thorough and incremental. Yes, it is dry and some might say boring, however, it is concise and to the point. Most of the lectures are about 15 minutes. The sample on youtube is a good example of the teaching. For comparison, based on the online samples, I found the Chalkdust instructor a bit more engaging but also more long winded than Mr. Firebaugh. I have also looked at Thinkwell, the instructor there is more animated and the segments shorter but I do not find the teaching as precise and thorough. In Math Relief, the instructor stands in front of the white board and simply explains how to work each problem step by step. Each segment, features multiple problems. There is very little extraneous talk about concepts or applications. He does a great job of pointing out typical errors or misunderstandings as well as sequencing the instruction so each lesson builds easily on the prior one. Mr. Firebaugh, the instructor, breaks every thing down so that even someone without a strong foundation in fractions/integers could follow along. For example,he doesn't discuss the rules regarding integers, but simply uses a number line to work each problem with adding integers. There are worksheets which are to be completed after each video segment. There is no instuction in the worksheets - just problems. These start off easy and get more difficult. Full worked solutions are provided for checking. I would say the exercises are very similar in progression and difficulty to those in Lial's or Foerster's. (I haven't gotten to the word problems yet so can't comment on those). There is no specific text for reference. The lack of text may be a problem for some but you could supplement by matching up topics in any standard Algebra text. The order of topics is a little unorthodox when compared with other programs. There are no word problems until Phase II and rational and radical expressions are covered earlier than other programs. Graphing is not covered until Phase III. Here is my abbr. version of the topics covered. Phase I: - Addition & Subtraction of Expressions - Combining Like Terms - Distributive law - Add/Subtraction of Polynomials - Solving Simple Equations - Multiplying Terms - Multiplying Monomials & Polynomials - Simple and Complex Factoring Phase II: - Rational Expressions (Reducing, Mult/Div, Addition with CD and Diff Den.) - Solving Equations with Rational Expression - Word Problems - Radical Expressions (incl. Extracting, Rationalizing) Phase III: - Completing the Square - Quadratic Formula - Graphing - Solving Equations Review - Simultaneous Equation This is a procedural program with little discussion of theory/concepts or abstractions. For example, while the distributive property is introduced in Phase I and used in problems, there is no proof or real discussion regarding it. This may be a negative for some but I think, conversely, it may be one of the reasons it works well with struggling students - the focus is on concrete steps and not abstractions. I think the theory portion could also be supplemented if that is a concern. So far, it seems like a very solid and rigorous program similar in scope to Foerster's or Lial's with the exception of the lack of specific instruction in mathematical properties. It is definitely not a watered down or light version of Algebra. I think part of your decision would be based on the best modality and timing for instruction - video on demand for MR vs. scheduled interactive meetings w/Jann and other students. The lack of a textbook might also be a consideration. I think I may be leaning towards Math Relief as the main program with some supplementation from Foerster's for word problems but I'm still mulling it over. Thanks so much for sharing this review of Math Relief! It was very helpful to me, especially since you are also familiar with Lial's. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa H. in GA Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Rod & Staff through upper elem. and middle school. Then he used Math Relief for Algebra 1. I think both programs are excellent. Slow and steady wins the race. He was behind in math entering high school because math was something he struggled with until he hit about 7th or 8th grade. In order to get into the tech. college at 16, where he now is studying for a degree in Criminal Justice, he had to get a GED. This score is broken down into subjects. He needed a 410 to pass each subject. In math, he got a 650. The majority of others taking the test squeaked by in math. My ds also got an honors GED. He really feels that even though it was sllloooowwww going for him, R&S and Math Relief did help him. He also feels that learning to play chess really helped him finally "get" math. Just a note though, he did use the GED prep book to help him w/his Geometry and took a GED prep class for the Geometry work. HTH, Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy7 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thank you all so very much. Your responses have been very helpful. I spoke with R&S today...they are currently writing an Algebra program, but they were unable to state when it would be ready...a couple of years was her estimation. I, too, am waffling between Math Relief and Lial's with Jann in TX. I know of a local family that used R&S through 8th and went straight into Math Relief with no problem. I would prefer a textbook, though. I do like the idea of getting something like Lial's to use for reference. My ds has definitely struggled with math. I think he is understanding it, finally, with R&S!!! I like the slow and steady wins the race comment. So true. Thanks again for the responses. That detailed review of Math Relief was *very* helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to type all that out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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