AAS NOT work for your kids?

[Homemama2]

My 3rd is having issues this year w/ spelling. He is almost done w/ AAS3 and has used it since 1st grade. This week we went over his "mastered" words and there were probably 20 words that he seemed to know really well earlier this year but missed during the review. Words like 'coat' he spelled 'cote'. Now in my opinion, that is a pretty simple word for 3rd grade in the first place. He can tell me all the rules....but I think he forgets about them while he's writing and some words you just need to know when the 'o' sound is made by adding a silent 'e', and when you use 'oa' to make the 'o' sound.

 

My husband and I never had problems w/ spelling in school (I guess we were natural spellers?) and his suggestion was to just give him lists of words and teach him the rules when he's older. A year ago I would have disagreed w/ him 100%.....now I'm not so sure.

Has anyone else found this true (that the kids 'knew' the rules, but the rules didn't seem to help them w/ spelling?)

 

 

ETA: I know someone will probably say that we didn't review the words enough before we put them in the 'mastered' section...but he had to get them right on several separate occasions after he took his test before I considered them 'mastered'

Edited January 9, 2011 by Homemama2

[deeinfl]

You know, I have to agree with your husband. I noticed that when I give rules to my son, he gets focused on the rules and forgets the words. When I just tell him to memorize how the word looks, to take a picture of it in his brain, he remembers the word. I also notice that spelling the word orally helps with retention as well. I still use rules, but only on the words he's really having trouble remembering, or when they apply as in word endings. For now, this seems to be working and we use Spelling Plus Dictation. I know many will probably disagree, but this happens to be the case with us.

 

 

HTH,

 

Dee

[mytwomonkeys]

i had the same issues with my daughter. we switched to spelling plus (i also use their dictation resource book - which is a key component imho). it covers the 1,000 most frequently spelled words, which supposedly account for 90% of written language. the spelling plus book still reviews rules, while the dictation book has sentences and paragraphs that incorporate the words from each list. it covers grades 1-6. my daughter is doing much better with this approach. i had found with spelling lists, she was doing really well but when using the *exact* same word/s in a sentence, she'd revert back to spelling phonetically. by using dictation now, i find that her spelling transfers into everyday writing more naturally. i also like that spelling plus continually re-uses words from previous lessons, so the review is constant. some people think the words aren't challenging enough, but i feel they're perfect, especially for a struggling speller. we'll tackle more difficult words once we get the basics down:) here are links.

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Spelling+Plus%3A+1000+Words+Toward+Spelling+Suc/014528/1294603108-1368482

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Spelling+Dictation+Resource+Book/004554/1294603108-1368482

 

 

the author has a website too. hth.

[mytwomonkeys]

For now, this seems to be working and we use Spelling Plus Dictation. I know many will probably disagree, but this happens to be the case with us.

 

 

I should have read your reply first. We use the same thing:)

[MerryAtHope]

Your husband is right in part--this one does need to be visually discerned. The reason rules didn't help with this one is not that your son's not ready for them (he may or may not be), but because there is no rule to help you know whether it's "coat" or "cote." "Rules" are only one of the 4 main strategies that AAS teaches, and you can't use rules to decide whether to use OA or O-E. This one is visual.

 

I do find that from time to time as my kids learn more words, some that were previously mastered need to go in review again. I just put them there and work on them again. Usually they are ones like your example, where the student has more than one phonogram to choose from and rules don't determine which one to use. The rule about OA not being used at the end of a word can help you know not to use OA in the word "know" (and later on "hoe"), but it can't help you know TO use it for coat etc...

 

For words like this that become bugaboos, I have my kids read the word card for several days (similar to how you use the word bank, to establish a visual memory), and then we work on spelling again. I like to review words like this a bit more often to really get them into long term memory. I love that I can customize my review box, and I add in some weekly and monthly reviews.

 

Here's an article about the 4 strategies that AAS teaches. HTH as you decide whether AAS will continue to be a fit for your son! Merry :-)

Edited January 9, 2011 by MerryAtHope

[A home for their hearts]

My dd11 had the same problem with AAS. She could recite the rules foward and backwords but when it came to applying them she never would. We are taking a break from spellinh while I find something else. Like everything, some curriculums work great for some kids while they leave other kids clueless. I do think AAS is a great curriculum, it just didnt work for my dd.

[JulieD]

I'm assuming you went over 200+ words, and you are worried that he got 20 wrong? I wouldn't suggest switching any spelling program because a child "only" scored 90% on a semester review. On the other hand, if you only grabbed 20 then you may have something to worry about. :001_smile:

 

I did well with spelling in school, too; 100% on the test almost every single time. But we never reviewed old words. My mom saved a poem and drawing I made in third grade. It includes words like realy and flys. I was definitely the best speller in my class, too. It's good not to expect perfection in small children. Work towards proficiency, yes, but not perfection.

 

Julie D.

[rafiki]

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[siloam]

Honestly I have mixed emotions about this.

 

Ok let me back up. First of all kids won't be successful with AAS or any spelling program unless they both have the ability to hear sounds and visualize them to create that memory picture. My 3rd dd, dyslexic, was missing both. She couldn't hear the difference between short i and short e, nor did she hear both sounds in blends, so a word like both she would spell bit, then read bit and get upset because she knew she spelled it wrong and didn't know how to go about spelling it right. She has going through LiPS to develop her hearing of sounds, which cured her e, i and blends problem, and she is doing Seeing Stars to develop visual memory because she also didn't have the ability to see words in her mind. Pictures yes, words no.

 

That said she still struggles. This week we worked with the same 10 words every day. Day 1 I dictate them to her by sound, Day 2 she writes them on a white board, day 3 we do visualization work with air writing, day 4 she writes them out on paper. While she did eventually spell them all correctly, she, on every single word, would leave out a letter then come back and fill it in. back would start out bak then she would fill in the c. Cloth was coth, then she filled in the l. Stick started out sick then she filled in the t. Sometimes she realizes right off she left the letter off and sometimes not till the whole word is written. This is probably a sign that our visualization is working, she looks at what she wrote and sees it is wrong and can correct it now, but it is frustrating.

 

All that to say, your ds sounds like he isn't doing too badly.

 

Now I also have two girls who can visualize (the oldest two) and who I would consider natural spellers. My oldest has known all the rules for years, but it did take her a while to consistently apply them. I actually started to see the biggest improvements when I started making her teach me the analysis sections. I have her tell me the rules while she does the syllable division, and explain any other rules/sound combinations. She was at a 7th grade spelling level when she started AAS in 5th grade, and now in 7th grade she is in AAS 5 and testing at an 8.8 grade level.

 

I guess you have to decide where you want to spend your time. If your child is a natural speller then you can work with a system where you just have them memorize spelling words, focusing on ones they misspell in their writing. I do think that learning the rules is not a waste of time, it will produce a better speller, but you have to decide what is good enough for the time invested.

 

The first danger in the method that your dh suggests is we all only have so much room in our brains to memorize information with. They say if you learn to read by memorization the child usually tops out at a 3rd to 4th grade level. I am sure a child grounded in phonics would go much father than that in memorizing for spelling, but they will eventually hit a wall.

 

The second is that if there is an LD at play. One of the above missing pieces of being able to hear sounds, see words in the mind or dyslexia which really can mess things up. For example I, as a dyslexic, will have times that all the bells go off saying I spelled a word wrong, so I will try spell check. Nope its good, so I will think maybe it is a homonym. I look it up in the dictionary and find it is not. Finally I accept that the word must be spelled correctly, but the bells telling me that it doesn't look right are still going off in my head. This is how a dyslexic can misspell the same word 4 times in one document. They are searching for the right spelling, but all the while the bells are going off saying none of them are right. What is even more maddening is the next day you can spell it correctly and not think twice. It is a processing problem that defies explanation, or at least one that I can give.

 

Just thoughts to chew on.

 

Heather

[susankenny]

We also use Spelling Plus & really like it. I would highly recommend the accompanying dictation book.

 

 

Susan

[hischool]

I used AAS to afterschool my dd but returned it before finishing AAS 1. My dd can remember the rules but I can tell she does not use the rules when she spells. I just feel that it is not a good way to spend our time. I read an article online about rule-based spelling awhile ago. (forgot the source) Basically it says that there are just too many rules and too many exceptions for it to be an effective learning tool.

[Snowfall]

I used AAS to afterschool my dd but returned it before finishing AAS 1. My dd can remember the rules but I can tell she does not use the rules when she spells. I just feel that it is not a good way to spend our time. I read an article online about rule-based spelling awhile ago. (forgot the source) Basically it says that there are just too many rules and too many exceptions for it to be an effective learning tool.

 

That's really just not true for most kids.They don't all need to know the rules, but to say it's ineffective with no qualifiers (for example, "It's not an effective learning tool for some children") is false. Rules work very well for my daughter, who knows that 'my' isn't spelled 'mi' because English words don't end in 'i', and that 'badge' isn't spelled 'baj' because they also don't end in 'j'. She remembers 'little' needs that 'e' because every syllable needs a vowel. For some children, rules are MUCH more effective than just expecting them to memorize every word, without any rhyme or reason to why they're spelled the way they are.

[Nakia]

My dd11 had the same problem with AAS. She could recite the rules foward and backwords but when it came to applying them she never would. We are taking a break from spellinh while I find something else. Like everything, some curriculums work great for some kids while they leave other kids clueless. I do think AAS is a great curriculum, it just didnt work for my dd.

 

Same story here! We switched to Sequential Spelling, and my oldest has improved in spelling by leaps and bounds!

[hischool]

Rules work very well for my daughter, who knows that 'my' isn't spelled 'mi' because English words don't end in 'i', and that 'badge' isn't spelled 'baj' because they also don't end in 'j'.

 

Fair enough. However, knowing that mi is wrong will not help the kid come to the conclusion that the word should be spelled my. The kid knows it should be my because he/she memorized it.

 

I am just saying in my dd's case, she can spend 5 minutes to remember why badge isn't spelled baj. Or she can use the same 5 minutes to memorize the spelling of 10 other words.

 

I prefer to teach my dd that 2+2 is 4 first, instead of telling her to remember 2+2 is not 5, 7, or 9 because even number plus even number is always an even number.

[Homemama2]

I'm assuming you went over 200+ words, and you are worried that he got 20 wrong?

 

I should have clarified. We did about 25 words per day for 1 week. The reason I was worried is that his 'review' section is HUGE already. He has ALOT that he still needs review on, so to see that he had forgotten the ones I thought he had finally mastered upset me. That said, I tend to be a perfectionist :glare: and appreciate the reminder that I need to not expect perfection.

Thanks so much for all of the comments! I already have AAS4 but I'm going to check out Spelling Plus, Apples and Pears and Sequential Spelling and see if one of these might be a better fit.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Homemama2

[Snowfall]

Fair enough. However, knowing that mi is wrong will not help the kid come to the conclusion that the word should be spelled my. The kid knows it should be my because he/she memorized it.

 

Actually, knowing the rule does, because in almost all words, we substitute y. That's a rule. Besides pie, what common words can you think of that end with the long i sound that are not spelled ending in y? Probably none besides high. lol I just thought of more...die, dye...There aren't many, though. Much easier for my daughter to memorize the exceptions than every one that follows the rules. Every kid's different.

 

I am just saying in my dd's case, she can spend 5 minutes to remember why badge isn't spelled baj. Or she can use the same 5 minutes to memorize the spelling of 10 other words.

That's perfectly reasonable, but I wasn't addressing what you find works best for your own daughter. I was addressing the fact that some article you read said there are too many rules and teaching spelling rules doesn't work. For my own daughter, it works better to know that NO WORD ending in the /j/ sound actually ends with a 'j'. That's a rule that applies to every word, so she doesn't need to memorize them all. She needs only know that /dge/ is used after short vowels and 'g''e' is used after long vowels. That's faster than memorizing 10 words for her, and it applies across the entire language, not just ten words. YMMV.

 

I prefer to teach my dd that 2+2 is 4 first, instead of telling her to remember 2+2 is not 5, 7, or 9 because even number plus even number is always an even number.

Me, too. That doesn't really have anything to do with teaching my kid that a word that every syllable needs a vowel or that when you hear an /oy/ sound at the end of a word it has to be spelled /oy/ or that when you hear a long i sound at the end of a word it's almost always spelled with a y. Those things teach her what to do, not what not to do.

 

I did not criticize how you choose to teach your daughter, only the way some article you read said rules simply don't work (apparently ever, for anyone, given that they didn't give any qualifiers). You are criticizing the way I choose to teach my kid, though, by comparing it to absurd things as though they're on par with one another.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Snowfall