dcjlkplus3 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well, I got NO answers for this on the K-8 board and thought I'd try here for some BTDT advice I'm looking ahead to (planning) the next third of the year. We will get into the writing from the outline in addition to completing the outline in the SOTW 4 AG. My dd9 is in 4th grade and gets (not likes, but gets) the complete the outline part just fine. Her sister dd7 will finish going through this whole year doing 2nd grade level narrations (2 things). Who has done this successfully and do you have any tips on how to explain to the student exactly what they will be doing? Yes I do realize I will have to help her with this for a while, but I still want to explain it well, so I don't frustrate her. Thanks in advance! :bigear::bigear::bigear::bigear::bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I did it with my (then) fourth grader last year. it was hard. Then, I was listening to a SWB audio lecture and she mentioned that they meant for it to be done by older kids..like an 8th grader. Well. That explained why it was so hard! She says that the book specifically says it is for older kids but I never saw it. It was part of making SOTW work for more than one level. When I did it I just told him to do his best. I told him to not look in the book unless he had to. I know he found it stressful. Now, that he is a 5th grader and doing outlines on his own, I don't really see the point for having a 4th grader write from the outline. I don't think this was very helpful. I am sorry. Maybe someone else can be more useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) I had my dd outline and write from SOTW4 in grade 5 but only about every 4th or 5th chapter and I would only choose one (either completing the outline or writing from the outline, not both). Some of the outlines were easier for her and some were harder. If she had a difficult time, I helped her; she'd had experience doing outlines in her writing program so it wasn't a new concept but SOTW was definitely challenging. She didn't have any problem writing from the outlines. As for explaining, it's teaching the child how to pick out the main points of the story .... ie. important information. If your dd has not had practice determining the main points of a story, I don't think I'd start with SOTW4. We used easier material to start and my dd had a decent grasp of the concept before we began SOTW4. That said, I'm always a fan of 'try it, you can always drop it if it doesn't work'. Children can surprise you. But I also agree with Red Squirrel ..... if it's hard for her and she can't do it, don't worry. Grade 4 is on the young side for these types of skills. HTH! Edited January 6, 2011 by Cleopatra more information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallory Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 My ds wasn't ready for it last year in SOTW 4 in 4th grade, we didn't do any of them. Okay, we tried some in the beginning, but it wasn't worth the struggle. This year, 5th grade, we started over with SOTW 1 and outlining has been much easier. It hasn't even taken much explanation, he really enjoys roman numerals (funny isn't it, the things that make school enjoyable ;)) and finding the main idea of each paragraph has been easy. When we start back next week we are going to try using some other books first with the one level outline, but I think he is ready for a two level outline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country Mouse Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 IWhen I did it I just told him to do his best. I told him to not look in the book unless he had to. I know he found it stressful. Now, that he is a 5th grader and doing outlines on his own, I don't really see the point for having a 4th grader write from the outline. Could you clarify why he was not allowed to look at the book? I am just wondering because I am having my ds do outlining with SOTW4 and I didn't know that we weren't supposed to look at the book. :blushing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 In the writing from the outline exercise in the year 4 activities guide I have a vague memory that it instructs the student to only look in the book if necessary. Writing from the outline is not the same as outlining. In the activity book the author gives a finished outline of the chapter and the student writes a narration of the chapter from reading the given outline. For making one's own outline, it is necessary to look at the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country Mouse Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 In the writing from the outline exercise in the year 4 activities guide I have a vague memory that it instructs the student to only look in the book if necessary. Writing from the outline is not the same as outlining. In the activity book the author gives a finished outline of the chapter and the student writes a narration of the chapter from reading the given outline. For making one's own outline, it is necessary to look at the book. Ohhh, of course. That makes sense. Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohdanigirl Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I just wanted to add that it may seem hard at first, but when your dc gets it things really do begin to run very smoothly. At first I sat down with ds and kind of pushed him in the right direction. Then, before we got to the blank outlines, I started handing him the sheet a letting him work it on his own. I always sat down with him afterwards and discussed it with him. It made the process a lot less stressful for both of us. His writing has improved quite a bit since he began doing the outlines. He is much better at staying on point and not veering off subject.:D HTH Danielle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 My ds wasn't ready for it last year in SOTW 4 in 4th grade, we didn't do any of them. Okay, we tried some in the beginning, but it wasn't worth the struggle. This year, 5th grade, we started over with SOTW 1 and outlining has been much easier. It hasn't even taken much explanation, he really enjoys roman numerals (funny isn't it, the things that make school enjoyable ;)) and finding the main idea of each paragraph has been easy. When we start back next week we are going to try using some other books first with the one level outline, but I think he is ready for a two level outline. I imagine it would be much easier to outline from SOTW1 than SOTW4. There is less material and it is written for younger children so the content is simpler. You may have found a solution! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well, in the writing lectures, SWB says specifically that SOTW1 and 2 are not appropriate for outlining because they are written in a narrative fashion. She also says to never have them outline fiction for the same reason. SOTW year 3 & 4 should be ok for outlining. I am looking through my book Writing With Ease for a friend and it says in the section entitled "writing with skill" that writing from the outline is a middle grade skill. She suggests introducing it in 6th and 7th grade gradually as a replacement for the narration. It is discussed on page 14 of the book "The Complete Writer: Writing with Ease." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallory Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Well, in the writing lectures, SWB says specifically that SOTW1 and 2 are not appropriate for outlining because they are written in a narrative fashion. She also says to never have them outline fiction for the same reason. SOTW year 3 & 4 should be ok for outlining. Yes I keep hearing this, but I believe she has also said that the newer Kingfisher and Usborne encycs aren't good either, and I think our outlines from SOTW end up much better then if we used one those. I think it works well, it is an easy text to start off with, and we do only one section per chapter so it is easy to skip the more narrative sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcjlkplus3 Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 You guys are very helpful, thank you. I did it with my (then) fourth grader last year. it was hard. Then, I was listening to a SWB audio lecture and she mentioned that they meant for it to be done by older kids..like an 8th grader. Well. That explained why it was so hard! She says that the book specifically says it is for older kids but I never saw it. It was part of making SOTW work for more than one level. It actually gives guidelinens that differ depending on age. It says "Fourth and fifth graders should aim to write a paragraph for each Roman numeral on the outline." I'm thinking I should try to tell her that and that each sentence of the paragragh should be one of the points/information from A-E (or however many points there are). I know that she'll complain, it is both new and work:tongue_smilie:, but I don't want to make it too hard for her either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testimony Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Well, I got NO answers for this on the K-8 board and thought I'd try here for some BTDT advice I'm looking ahead to (planning) the next third of the year. We will get into the writing from the outline in addition to completing the outline in the SOTW 4 AG. My dd9 is in 4th grade and gets (not likes, but gets) the complete the outline part just fine. Her sister dd7 will finish going through this whole year doing 2nd grade level narrations (2 things). Who has done this successfully and do you have any tips on how to explain to the student exactly what they will be doing? Yes I do realize I will have to help her with this for a while, but I still want to explain it well, so I don't frustrate her. Thanks in advance! :bigear::bigear::bigear::bigear::bigear: I just want to tell you that the first time that I did it with my older son, he was in fourth grade. I stopped doing the outlines and only did the review questions, maps, and extra readings. Now that he is in 7th grade. He did the outlines. He wrote from the outlines. I would do it every other chapter. I had him still narrate and answer the questions. Not all the chapters have outlines because there was too much and it was only questions. I think that fourth grade is still too young, but some can do it. I know that the book said not to do Volume 4 with a child less than 4th grade. So, if you were going to do the outline with a 4th grader, I would do about 3-4 for the year to get the flavor. Blessing in your homeschooling journey! Sincerely, Karen http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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