Education Life in NYT

[memphispeg]

Is anyone else freakiing out about the latest edition of the Education Life in the NYT? I am terrified that Dd has 0% chance of getting into any college when I read of all the applications and all the high-achieving foreign students. My child is nothing like those kids. I'm not sure there's anything that will make her stand out. She's non-competitive, v. nice, smart but we are barely making it through our curriculum without too much extra going on in her life.

I am trying to keep it real with her, just school and ballet, the 2 things that interest her. She is a jr. This is our 1st year hsing, yikes?!!! We are hsing b/c we do not have the $$ for private school.

Of course, I did not say any of this to her. There's enough pressure as it is.

[Michelle in AL]

I haven't read the article, but I surely wouldn't worry. It sounds like she has a balanced life with interests. The Ivies are the only ones I know of along with maybe the top 20 schools that are sooo competitive.

[Zanyan]

Yes! I felt a bit freaked out when I read the latest article. My daughter also does just school and ballet, but ballet takes 25 hours per week, and we just don't have time to do much else. She's also not particularly interested in academics, so she just gets the work done and moves on. She's in a hybrid home study/charter school program, so she's getting grades now, and so far, she has a 3.7 grade point average. It seems like most of the incoming freshman classes at the UCs have GPAs of 4.0 or higher, so I guess she's not going to be UC material. We're looking at the CSUs now (California State Universities). Their entrance requirements are not as tough (though stiffer than when I went to college).

 

I think the article was referring to top-tier colleges. However, since top-tiers are turning away so many students with 4.0+ GPAs, high SATs, great extra-curriculars on their CVs, etc., those same kids are applying in droves to the second-tiers, pushing what used to be second-tier type students (probably my daughter in past years) to third tiers, and so on.

 

I don't know if your daughter is in a pre-professional ballet program but from what I understand, if she's a very serious student of ballet (takes classes 5 - 6 days a week, goes to SIs, etc.), that looks great to college admissions personnel. They seem to understand that serious ballet students really don't have time to do other activities, but that the training they've gone through is proof that they have the kind of focus and determination necessary to be successful college students.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Zanyan

[Janice H]

This site was recommended in an older thread. See the other articles on the left side of the screen. http://admissionsadvice.com/2010admitrates

[Zanyan]

Thanks for posting that link, Janice. Maybe I don't need to sell my daughter short with regard to her prospects. If we had unlimited funds, I'm sure she could get into a good private college with a strong dance program, but with 3 teens to put through college (we have a 14 year old, 15 year old, and 16 year old!), funds will be a huge issue! I think in-state public universities will be more in alignment with our budget. I've been fretting that that fact narrows our kids' choices considerably.

[memphispeg]

My older daughter goes to Vassar. Great dance program (extracurricular) good for ballet, etc. Financial aid is excellent there and at other top-tiers. Look at the 7 sisters and ivies....they like people from out west.

[Shifra]

Is anyone else freakiing out about the latest edition of the Education Life in the NYT? I am terrified that Dd has 0% chance of getting into any college when I read of all the applications and all the high-achieving foreign students. My child is nothing like those kids. I'm not sure there's anything that will make her stand out. She's non-competitive, v. nice, smart but we are barely making it through our curriculum without too much extra going on in her life.

I am trying to keep it real with her, just school and ballet, the 2 things that interest her. She is a jr. This is our 1st year hsing, yikes?!!! We are hsing b/c we do not have the $$ for private school.

Of course, I did not say any of this to her. There's enough pressure as it is.

 

The only reason to freak is if your daughter wants to go to an Ivy League or other very competitive school. Most colleges are not that competitive (ie. more than half of all the applicants get in). Where does she want to go to college? What are her interests? What does she want to do with her life? And she should have an answer for why does she want to go to college altogether!

 

Also, I see that she is a dancer. Of course, I don't know how competitive she is, but Goucher College has a dance program that does offer dance scholarships. It's a liberal arts college that was highlighted in Colleges that Change Lives.

[emubird]

Not only do the vast majority of kids get into a college they like, a significant number of them get merit financial aid. I wouldn't worry. If your daughter is passionate about just one thing (ballet) that will do a lot for her chance of getting in and getting some money.

 

Apply to state schools just in case, but don't rule out private schools. They often turn out to be cheaper than the state schools once aid is factored in. You won't know until you apply. And many schools are now waiving application fees if the student applies online. Don't let middling test scores and grades discourage you. I've seen a number of kids come through the scholarship programs at our school who weren't stellar students in high school. Colleges are looking for more than grades.

 

I'm not sure why anyone would want to go to a hard to get into school anyway. The people I've known who went to those places haven't been any smarter or more engaged. In some cases, they just have more unbearable attitude. The classes are similar, the professors pretty much the same.

 

The only reason I can see for looking at some of the Ivies is that some of them don't charge tuition (or not much) to families with mid-range income. But if one gets into another school that provides merit aid, this may not be anything to get excited about.

[emubird]

David Brooks and Gail Collins give their opinion on big name schools. And then they talk about some other unrelated things:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/college-kids-these-days/?ref=opinion

 

The college counselor at our local high school assured me that she has never seen a kid not get into college -- just so long as they aim for schools that will want them (and that they manage to graduate from high school).

[rlugbill]

I suggest that rather than comparing yourself and your dd, that you just do what is best for her. It's not a competition. Just focus on helping her do the best she can do and I'm sure things will work out fine.

 

That said, if you want to reassure yourself that the other applicants are not so great, go and talk to any college professor about how inadequately prepared most college freshman are. Just ask any college professor what the shortcomings of their incoming freshman are and you will see that your daughter will do fine.

 

Professors love homeschoolers because they are intellectually curious and they will talk in class and aren't afraid of adults and don't think adults are the enemy. Plus, they aren't just in it for the grade, but actually want to learn something. If a homeschooled kid has good basic skills (including writing papers!), they will do fine in college.

 

There are lots of good colleges out there and many of them really really need qualified students. You don't have to go to an Ivy to get a very good education. There are lots of very good colleges out there with excellent professors. I'm sure your dd will find one and the college will be very happy to have her there.

[Zanyan]

Thanks for the advice about Vassar, Memphispeg. We'll put that on our list of schools to look at when the time gets closer. :)

 

Thanks, everyone, for a clear thinking and comforting thread. I've focused too much on the "average GPAs for the incoming freshman class" at the UCs many of which seem to have average GPAs of 4.0+. For my niece, who wants to be an architect but has a GPA of 3.5 (so far - she's a sophomore), I've already written off most UCs including both of the UCs with the best programs in architecture. Maybe I'm being too hasty in that regard as well.

[Guest]

I have heard over and over that the UC system is not homeschooler friendly in the first place. Has anyone had experience with their dc applying to one of the branches, and how did it go?

[Zanyan]

Interesting, KarenAnne. I do know two life long home schoolers who are at UC Berkeley on full scholarship, but they were admitted based upon their CC grades and SAT scores and not on their "mommy transcripts." I don't think they did many classes at the CC, though. Since we're not planning on having the kids take more than a couple of CC classes during high school (if that), I may have another reason to write off the UCs!

[Janice H]

I have heard over and over that the UC system is not homeschooler friendly in the first place. Has anyone had experience with their dc applying to one of the branches, and how did it go?

 

We are in discussions with a Cal State University system school. So far they say they require a GED or Cal. High School Proficiency Exam, even from a kid who is in the 97 percentile ACT composite. :glare: :chillpill:

 

To top it off the exam is about $100. An unexpected feeling of appreciation for the College Board company has come over me. They can offer a test for about half the price with many more test dates and sites.

[Zanyan]

Come to think of it - I may have heard that the CSUs are reluctant to enroll home schoolers as freshman, but that UCs are more open to home schoolers. Janice H - Your experience with the CSU your son is applying to might be evidence (frustrating evidence) of that!

[mcconnellboys]

I was told that colleges completely understand and even admire kids involved in very time intensive sports and they know very well what sorts of activities take up huge amounts of time. My older son was a swimmer and there was very little time for him to try to fit in other things.

 

I would try to fit in some volunteer work, although it does not have to be hugely time intensive, or on a long-term, weekly basis....

[memphispeg]

Shifra -

My dd has v. specific geographical, curriculum, and extracurricular needs for college. She wants to be warm, near the beach, go to a school with an active marine science program (marine lab, boats, scuba club, etc); she needs a non-competitive co-operative teamwork/discussion project-oriented style of class; she needs an active dance program (ballet dancers find it v. hard to function if they can't do class several times a week). We have v. little money so, she needs a great financial aid package.

That being said, there will probably be lots of applicants that are applying to her schools of interest that are more competitively trained. The ivies are not on her list (except for Stanford?). I am just afraid that the stuff mentioned in those articles will surely spill over into the 2nd and 3rd tier schools that might be a great fit for her.

[TechWife]

Have you looked at UNC Wilmington?

[jld]

Emubird, thanks so much for posting that conversation between Brooks and Collins! That was very reassuring!:)

[Zanyan]

Memphispeg,

 

UC Santa Cruz sounds like it would fit your dd to a T. Warm - check. Beach - check. Marine Sciences program with teamwork based learning, boats, scuba, etc. - check. They do have ballet classes there because they have a dance program within the theater program. I know one of the ballet teachers there who is wonderful. That being said, my dd is in such an intensive ballet program that I know it will be hard for a program like UC's to be "enough" ballet for her, but I don't know how intensive a dance program your dd is looking for in college. If she wants to continue dancing, but is pursuing Marine Science as her major, she might want to dance in quality classes but not want a 25 hour+ weekly dance schedule. She could certainly do that at UC Santa Cruz. (P.S. I would be thrilled if my daughter wanted to major in Marine Science in college. That is so cool!).

Edited November 14, 2010 by Zanyan

[memphispeg]

Have you looked at UNC Wilmington?

It is on the list. But, we made need smaller. We will tour this spring. We need financial aid and do not live in the state so it may not work out. There grad. program is terrific too.

[memphispeg]

Memphispeg,

 

UC Santa Cruz sounds like it would fit your dd to a T. Warm - check. Beach - check. Marine Sciences program with teamwork based learning, boats, scuba, etc. - check. They do have ballet classes there because they have a dance program within the theater program. I know one of the ballet teachers there who is wonderful. That being said, my dd is in such an intensive ballet program that I know it will be hard for a program like UC's to be "enough" ballet for her, but I don't know how intensive a dance program your dd is looking for in college. If she wants to continue dancing, but is pursuing Marine Science as her major, she might want to dance in quality classes but not want a 25 hour+ weekly dance schedule. She could certainly do that at UC Santa Cruz. (P.S. I would be thrilled if my daughter wanted to major in Marine Science in college. That is so cool!).

Also on our list. Not sure how UCs would work out financial aid-wise for an out of state student. We also like UC Santa Barbara and San Diego, but they may be too big?

[redsquirrel]

You can set your watch by the NYT on this subject. I say this as a dedicated NYT reader.

 

Let me guess, they ran some article about super-humans applying to college. You are now convinced your child is not 'above average'. This is their autumn panic inducing story. Every. Year.

 

Soon, after acceptances go out, they will run a very different story. They will then run a story on how the colleges are now courting the students they accepted. THey will tell you the schools are desperate for students etc, etc.

 

This happens every year. Don't let it throw you!

 

And yes, there are lots of really great colleges around.

[Zanyan]

LOL! Thanks for the reality check, Redsquirrel. :D

 

Memphispeg: I've heard great things about UC Santa Barbara (one of the most beautiful places in the world), and I've heard that the dance program is good as well. Both UCSB and UCSD are huge, though. UCSC's campus is gorgeous, and even though Santa Cruz is a wacky place :lol: it does have a nice small town feel to it.