Need outlining help

[Lori in MS]

I am trying to do the recs from SWB's writing mp3s but am having trouble. My dc are 8th and 7th grades so we are trying to catch up. They both did fine with the 1 level outline, but are having trouble with the 2 level. The problem is that I need an answer key. I am not sure how to direct them because it is difficult for me to determine the subpoints for the paragraph. Maybe the books we are using are too difficult to outline, I don't know. We are studying geography this year so I am having them outline part of the history chapter from the Enchantment of the World series on the country we are studying.

 

We did SOTW 4 last year and I was thinking of having them practice outlining that without looking at her printed ones, but at least I would have an idea of what they should look like. Any other ideas of texts, books I could use that would be easy for them to outline while they get the hang of it. I was trying to keep it related to our geography study but that is not necessary. I also have SWI B and SICC B and wondered if they could outline the stories in that SWB style. I don't like the key word outlines because it is not enough information for them to remember when they try to rewrite it. Any advice is appreciated!

Edited October 26, 2010 by Lori in MS

[regentrude]

I don't know the books you mentioned - but we ditched outlining completely when it turned out that, in order to find the second level for outlining, my child would essentially have to copy the entire paragraph because that was all there was to it (so maybe the text is too easy instead of too hard?)

It was a source of much frustration and it was impossible to explain to the child why he should be doing that.

 

I have modified the task and have my children take notes on their reading: structured notes, but not in complete sentences (they need to learn to do that because you don't have time to write complete sentences when listening to a professor lecture). they can use color, headings, bullets - anything that makes the structure transparent, allows them to study from the notes, allows an outsider to make sense of the notes. Which works much better for us.

[Lori in MS]

I don't know the books you mentioned - but we ditched outlining completely when it turned out that, in order to find the second level for outlining, my child would essentially have to copy the entire paragraph because that was all there was to it (so maybe the text is too easy instead of too hard?)

 

 

This was the problem we had today. There really wasn't enough information for a two level outline. So maybe the book is too easy.

[Lori in MS]

Any advice?

[creekmom]

Maybe you should try a workbook approach that teaches outlining. My 6th grader is using this one...

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Outlining+Grades+5-8/022872/1288145479-1297330

[razorbackmama]

Any advice?

:bigear:

[Free Indeed]

No advice here, I too struggle with this. I have just been having them do modified key word outlines.

[Lori in MS]

No advice here, I too struggle with this. I have just been having them do modified key word outlines.

 

How do you modify the KWO?

[Stacy in NJ]

My 8th grader is doing 3 level outlines now. My 6th grader is doing two levels.

 

For outlining there isn't necessarily an exact answer. Generally, you want them to get the point of the paragraph and then include two or three relevant details organized in some way. For the parent (and student) to a certain extent it's a judgement call about what's most important. Outlines are not intended to be written in complete sentences; they are in nature organized notes.

 

My advice is just to not expect the perfect outline. Sit down with them and guide them through the process using your own judgement. After they get the hang of it and can largely do it independently, spot check their work.

 

ETA: Keep in mind what the purpose of outlining really is. It's to read, understand, remember, and organize ideas and factual information. While there is a "right" way to outline and a "right" answer, don't let that freeze you or your kids up to the point where you feel overwhelmed by the process. Take Nike's advice and Just Do It. It will be less than perfect at first but will improve over time.

 

HTH, Stacy

Edited October 27, 2010 by Stacy in NJ

[Colleen in NS]

Lori,

 

If you can find a copy of the 3rd ed. of WTM, look up the outlining instructions in the logic stage history section. The new WTM contains some questions that you can apply to paragraphs, in order to extract and order each level of outlining. These questions have been tremendously helpful to us. I have them posted up by the computer, so ds can use them when he outlines. They're pretty simple, but they help us think through the paragraphs.

 

Also, I find that a key to success in being able to order a paragraph's ideas via outlining, is to pick paragraphs that are well-written, from science or history. "Well-written" usually means, to me, interesting or engagingly written. If you use the WTM questions on the paragraphs, you will start to be able to see what paragraphs are well-written, too, if finding something "well-written" scares you (it used to bewilder me).

 

hth