A million more questions about writing now that I have SWB's audio lectures

[Nakia]

:001_smile: I love the audio lectures. They are so inspiring and answered a lot of my writing questions! I ended up with more questions, too. Well, I have only actually listened to the one for elementary school. I am going to listen the middle grades one this weekend. My 5th grader is a reluctant writer, so I think we are going to need to back up and start with some basic narration and dictation. I have a bunch of questions about how exactly to implement the ideas for her. I think I have it for my 2nd grader. Let me see if I can get all my questions lined up.

 

1. We use R&S for grammar (starting in 3rd grade), and my 5th grader is working on level with that and having little to no trouble with the grammar part. It's like pulling teeth to get her to do one paragraph, but it has all been creative writing in the R&S lessons, so I think that might be the current problem. Should I totally skip the R&S writing lessons? I noticed that outlining is coming up in just a few lessons. I don't think she is ready for that, but the instruction in R&S actually looks good. If I skip those lessons for now, I'm thinking I can go back to to them when we get to that point. Does that sound like a good idea?

 

2. I think for now, I might need to write her narrations down for her, and then have her copy it and do the dictations from her narrations later in the week? Does that sound right? I am a bit confused. I can't figure out if I am supposed to pick the passage for dictation or use her original narrations. I don't want to regress, but I think she will find it easier and be more successful if we step back a bit.

 

3. (goes along with number 2 or might be the same question, just different wording, lol) How does it really look to implement writing the WTM way? I understand that we are supposed to pull passages from our literature, science, and history. So do I have her write her own narrations (when she is ready) from each at the beginning of the week, and then later in the week, use her own paragraphs for dictation? Does she study the paragraphs during the week? Or do I pick a passage totally separate from her narration to use for dictation?

 

4. Should I just go hog wild with this next week or ease into it? Maybe start with one literature or history passage the first week?

 

5. Will buying WWE make my life easier? LOL! I need explicit instructions, people. I would love to know exactly how you do this, when you do it, and how often you do it. I really want to use these lectures to make writing more successful. I just don't know if I can figure out how to schedule it on my own. We are using SL so we certainly aren't hurting for great literature and history resources. I'm not 100% sold on implementing science into it because she keeps a detailed science notebook. She loves the way we do science.

 

 

I really appreciate anyone who has read this and can make sense of it. I feel like a rambling wild woman right now. :)

[1Togo]

I tried to sort out the 7th and 8th grade writing in a thread I just posted. We are backing up (way back) with an older student, and this is what we are doing. We are using WWE Level 3 - daily. I like the format and simply don't have time to pick out dictations and narrations. She is also writing one history narration (one paragraph) per week - on Thursday with corrections on Friday if necessary. Since she has some writing background, this is not difficult. Plus, the WWE work laid the groundwork for written narrations. In addition, we are working through Level 2 of MCT, which focuses on paragraph writing. We just gotten to the MCT lessons that require writing, so I'm trying to keep the writing manageable but challenging. It looks like she will be working on MCT writing on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.

 

In your situation, I would skip the R&S writing and come back to it. Get WWE (workbook only) to get the dication and narration going, and begin oral history narrations. As soon your daughter is ready to write a narration, add one of those per week. Then, go to two - one from history and science.

Edited October 15, 2010 by 1Togo

[~Jo]

:001_smile: I love the audio lectures. They are so inspiring and answered a lot of my writing questions! I ended up with more questions, too. Well, I have only actually listened to the one for elementary school. I am going to listen the middle grades one this weekend. My 5th grader is a reluctant writer, so I think we are going to need to back up and start with some basic narration and dictation. I have a bunch of questions about how exactly to implement the ideas for her. I think I have it for my 2nd grader. Let me see if I can get all my questions lined up.

 

I love them too...they have helped me so much....and likewise caused a lot more questions...but I really think I'm on the right track!!!!

 

1. We use R&S for grammar (starting in 3rd grade), and my 5th grader is working on level with that and having little to no trouble with the grammar part. It's like pulling teeth to get her to do one paragraph, but it has all been creative writing in the R&S lessons, so I think that might be the current problem. Should I totally skip the R&S writing lessons? I noticed that outlining is coming up in just a few lessons. I don't think she is ready for that, but the instruction in R&S actually looks good. If I skip those lessons for now, I'm thinking I can go back to to them when we get to that point. Does that sound like a good idea?

 

I would stop all creative writing exercises and concentrate on non-fiction writing. I also would wait to do the outlining (SWB says to start in 5th grade and go all year doing a 1 level outline if need be.) So I don't think it would hurt to start her doing the 1 level outlines and do them the last half of 5th grade.

 

2. I think for now, I might need to write her narrations down for her, and then have her copy it and do the dictations from her narrations later in the week? Does that sound right? I am a bit confused. I can't figure out if I am supposed to pick the passage for dictation or use her original narrations. I don't want to regress, but I think she will find it easier and be more successful if we step back a bit.

 

This is what I'm doing...and I'm backing up with a 6th and a 9th grader. I pick the copywork and the dictation. Listening to SWB tell how to do dictation and also watching her do it with her son on YouTube helped me tremendously. What I did this week was I had them write copywork (from either their history, science or literature) and then used it as dictation for them the next time. I told them that they needed to learn how to hold sentences in their heads (and they both agreed with me that it is difficult for them) before they could actually write those sentences on paper. They don't realize that what they are doing they should have learned how to do when they were younger...and if they do we blame mom's ignorance and the old curriculum. :D Then they don't feel horrible about it and try to excel.

 

3. (goes along with number 2 or might be the same question, just different wording, lol) How does it really look to implement writing the WTM way? I understand that we are supposed to pull passages from our literature, science, and history. So do I have her write her own narrations (when she is ready) from each at the beginning of the week, and then later in the week, use her own paragraphs for dictation? Does she study the paragraphs during the week? Or do I pick a passage totally separate from her narration to use for dictation?

 

Well I wouldn't do it for each at the beginning of the week. I think that would be too much. You can also do oral narrations...don't even write them down, just go through the process..then chose one subject per day to write from. Then on another day pick one of her narrations and use it for dictation.

 

4. Should I just go hog wild with this next week or ease into it? Maybe start with one literature or history passage the first week?

 

For your own sanity??? EASE into it!!!! (I speak from experience as I'm still trying to wrap my head around this myself.) Also from experience, my 9th grader is getting this really fast...so I doubt it will take him that long to get to where he needs to be. The 6th grader also is improving and we've only been doing this for about 2 weeks.

 

5. Will buying WWE make my life easier? LOL! I need explicit instructions, people. I would love to know exactly how you do this, when you do it, and how often you do it. I really want to use these lectures to make writing more successful. I just don't know if I can figure out how to schedule it on my own. We are using SL so we certainly aren't hurting for great literature and history resources. I'm not 100% sold on implementing science into it because she keeps a detailed science notebook. She loves the way we do science.

 

I can let you know Tuesday :D My order is scheduled to be delivered that day. I order WWE text, 1, 3 & 4 - I have a 1st/2nd grader that will use the level 1, then I wasn't sure where to put or what to use for the older two and since I plan to use the WWE with the younger I figured I would just go on and get it all and get free shipping :D I really think my youngest will do well with WWE as she LOVES, LOVES, LOVES, FLL.

 

I really appreciate anyone who has read this and can make sense of it. I feel like a rambling wild woman right now. :)

 

You and me both...but we'll get through it and be wiser for it in the end, right?

[Nakia]

Thank you both very very much!!

 

I listened to the elementary again along with the middle grades today. It seems like SWB really encourages parents to pick passages from their history, science, and literature studies so that the writing goes along with, and fits into their curriculum. Doesn't using WWE defeat the purpose of that? I guess that is one thing that I am still confused about. I know I can't do the narration/dictations/writing from our history and literature and do WWE on top of that because my children might revolt. :lol: That's not the idea anyway, is it?

 

I went to B&N today and sat and looked through the WWE workbooks, and they look amazing. And sooooooooo easy to use. They are pricey, but I think I might be able to work it out to get them. I have no idea which ones I would get though. UGH! HELP!! :confused:

 

BTW, I think I might be making this harder than it is. I have a habit of doing that. :D

[Capt_Uhura]

Well, I suppose in an ideal world, it's best to take passages from their literature and history and science. But my world is far from ideal. Even on our most craziest days, we can still get WWE done w/ the workbook. If you want to use WWE but use your own material, I suggest getting the WWE textbook. It has all 4 years of material in one book. You get two weeks of material given for you just like in WWE workbook, and then for the next 8 weeks of that block, it tells you what kind of passage to look for in DC's history or literature or science. For instance, find a passage of about 50words which has possessives or quotations or proper nouns. So then at least you'd have a guide as to what direction you're going w/ narration and grammar/spelling topics to bring out in the copywork and dictation. And when to transition from copywork followed by dictation to just dictation.

 

Or you could use the WWE workbook, then have then practice narrations orally for history. But keep in mind, WWE (I should add WWE level 2) works like this. One day is a oral narration. Day 2 is copywork. Day 3 is dictation from day 2. Day 4 is narration w/ dictation of DC's own thoughts. So on Day1 when there is no writing in WWE, you can have DC write their own narration from their lit, history or science that day. And on Day 5 when no WWE is scheduled, you can have DC write summaries from history, lit or science.

 

Or could you do like some folk and sit down w/ the textbook and write out all the passages for 10weeks to make it pick up and go.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Capt_Uhura

[Colleen in NS]

1. We use R&S for grammar (starting in 3rd grade), and my 5th grader is working on level with that and having little to no trouble with the grammar part. It's like pulling teeth to get her to do one paragraph, but it has all been creative writing in the R&S lessons, so I think that might be the current problem. Should I totally skip the R&S writing lessons? I noticed that outlining is coming up in just a few lessons. I don't think she is ready for that, but the instruction in R&S actually looks good. If I skip those lessons for now, I'm thinking I can go back to to them when we get to that point. Does that sound like a good idea?

 

Yes, you could skip the R&S writing lessons and let the lecture info. be your program. And, I think the R&S outline lessons are good, too, but I *really* like the outlining instructions in the new WTM MUCH better. They are much simpler for us to use, and make much more sense to us. Once I started using them, outlining became tons easier for my son.

 

I do skim through the R&S writing lessons sometimes, as we progress through the grammar, but I don't require application of them. I am finding that many of them are either creative-oriented, or that what's in them is already being learned through SWB's methods, or will be learned through those. But, I do like having them so I can refer to them and learn different perspectives on teaching writing. Plus, for example, the poetry lessons are nice because they help us to understand poetry a little better, which just adds to poetry reading/understanding. But I wouldn't call that essential right now, because I plan to use WEM later, which contains a great poetry section. IOW, I keep finding that SWB's recs cover what we come across in R&S, just in different orders for different reasons.

 

2. I think for now, I might need to write her narrations down for her, and then have her copy it and do the dictations from her narrations later in the week? Does that sound right? I am a bit confused. I can't figure out if I am supposed to pick the passage for dictation or use her original narrations. I don't want to regress, but I think she will find it easier and be more successful if we step back a bit.

 

You could do: Monday - narration, Tuesday - dictation from a book, Wednesday - narration and then dictation of first sentence of her narration, Thursday - dictation from a book; and eventually turn Monday into the same as Wednesday. (and BTW, I am thinking of WWE level 4 here)

 

3. (goes along with number 2 or might be the same question, just different wording, lol) How does it really look to implement writing the WTM way? I understand that we are supposed to pull passages from our literature, science, and history. So do I have her write her own narrations (when she is ready) from each at the beginning of the week, and then later in the week, use her own paragraphs for dictation? Does she study the paragraphs during the week? Or do I pick a passage totally separate from her narration to use for dictation?

 

See above. Also, no, she doesn't study the paragraphs. You would use dictation from her narration on the same day - the idea being that she would learn to hold the words in her head until she could get them down on paper. Her narration will be fresh in her mind as you wrote it, and the idea would be that she would remember some of it to write herself.

 

4. Should I just go hog wild with this next week or ease into it? Maybe start with one literature or history passage the first week?

 

My theory is I'll never know unless I try. I experiment with this stuff to figure out what works with each child.

 

5. Will buying WWE make my life easier? LOL!

 

YES! :lol:

 

I know I can't do the narration/dictations/writing from our history and literature and do WWE on top of that because my children might revolt. :lol: That's not the idea anyway, is it?

 

Right. WWE is to help you merge narrations/dictations with history/science/literature, making it seamless content studying, as it should be later in life. But some people really need the workbooks to lay it all out. I've read about many different ways here of using SWB's methods. Some people use the workbooks so they don't have to choose reading, and have a separate history/science/lit. writing period anyway, some probably just use the workbooks and get to content studying another time, some use the teacher text to incorporate everything together. All of these ways will work - you just have to figure out what's best for yours - if they'll revolt at having two writing periods per day, well then....(it's the same at my house)

 

You're figuring it all out, don't worry. :D

Edited October 16, 2010 by Colleen in NS

[1Togo]

Following the thread.

Edited October 16, 2010 by 1Togo

[AppleGreen]

On your last question-YES! Buying the WWE workbooks made my life so much easier. I also have the WWE text and ideally would be picking my own passages etc. based on our studies, but I want to get writing done regularly and in a timely manner and that is what the workbooks have allowed me to do.

 

Here's how I have sort of blended the two: We use the WWE workbooks daily for our writing instruction, but I often (not always) will pull either copywork or dictation (usually it's copywork) from history or science. I don't do it every day, but maybe a couple of times a week have them do one of the above to include in their history/science section of their notebook. We backed WAY up on WWE for my oldest. He is over halfway through WWE 2 and in 4th grade. I just felt it was more important to have a solid foundation in the skills taught than "be caught up" and struggling. He is a bright mad scientist sort of boy and I am ok with him not getting to outlining until 6th grade if that's what it takes. I figure the race is long. So, pulling in a little dictation and copywork from the science and history beefs up his writing just a little w/o overwhelming him (which WWE 3 was overwhelming him, it was too big a jump for him), but also allows me to not stress that we didn't get writing done, b/c I know we have done our WWE workbook.

 

I have definitely seen improvements in his writing and spelling w/ the dictation using WWE. I like that SWB has figured out the appropriate pacing and schedule for the skills being taught. It would really add to much for me to sort through and find appropriate passages and dictation-my life is too busy w/ all the littles! LOL This has allowed me to add science and history when time dictates, but I feel like I can relax with the choices I make b/c I know it is being covered in a systematic way in WWE. Plus, my kids love following the same thread for the week w/ familiar and new stories in the WWE workbook.

 

I am not feeling very coherent right now, so I hope that made sense! Off to to check on my coughing boy. :(

[Colleen in NS]

Some people use the workbooks so they don't have to choose reading, and have a separate history/science/lit. writing period anyway,

 

We use the WWE workbooks daily for our writing instruction, but I often (not always) will pull either copywork or dictation (usually it's copywork) from history or science. I don't do it every day, but maybe a couple of times a week have them do one of the above to include in their history/science section of their notebook.

 

This perfectly illustrates what I meant.