How Do You Respond...

[Jean in Wisc]

These individuals feel it is "wrong" to expose Dd to great works of literature, poetry, history, science, math, foreign language, famous artists/composers. It is "bad" to teach Dd logic and critical thinking skills.

Apparently according to these individuals by exposing Dd to "classical education" we are leading her down the path of sin/degradation and into the land of free thinking.

Dh and I stand firm in our decision in how to home educate our child.

We want Dd to thrive as the curious, intelligent individual she was created to be.

We want Dd to become a productive member of society not just merely a consumer.

So out of curiosity how would you respond to these individuals remarks?

Has anyone else out there in WTM Forums Land dealt with this type of situation?

 

Yes. Been there.

 

If it is a person to whom I care to give an answer, I become rather animated. I talk on and on. For those people who you describe in your post, I'd take a rather direct approach, taking their faith and how they view it and turn my response into something that would register with their goals for their children. So...let's say...:

 

Our children study the Bible and we teach them about our faith. Then we look to see what others believe and how that compares.

 

For example, we look at the Greeks. They had gods that were not holy and loving like our God, instead they are just like men--mean, vengeful...--only they have a lot more power. The Greeks saw life as a rolling of the dice. If they were lucky, their gods did not get angry with them. But if a god decided to be angry at them, they had no control of the situation. Cepheus and Cassiopeia had to chain their lovely daughter to a rock as an offering to a sea monster to appease their god. Our God, on the other hand, saw our rebellion and chose to come and pay the price for it. How different is that? How fantastic!

 

After the Greeks came the Romans. They changed their perspective on the gods. They still had the mythical gods of the Greeks, but they soon made themselves gods--the emperors were considered so. They saw man as something to worship. The Olympics, the battles--those who were strong and successful were worshiped. They worshiped man's body. They made their emperors into gods to be worshiped. Nero vs. my God? Pretty easy decision there.

 

And so we move up the time line. We study the history of the people and who they worshiped. We look at how their gods compare to ours. We talk about all the other faiths and beliefs and we set them along side of ours and we discuss them.

 

As my children grow older and are able to understand more, we begin to teach them to analyze what people say and believe, and we help them decide which is true Christian faith and which is not. We teach them to THINK, to REASON, to use LOGIC so that they can discern true Christian thinking from the false thinking that would tempt them to leave their faith. One of the greatest ways to do this is to read literature written by men and women of various faiths. We then can discuss them, finding what they believe and how it stacks up to the Bible. This allows us to have discernment--what the Bible tells us we must have! We, again, set these books side by side with our Bible. We look at what the author says. We try to understand what the author believes--after all, we've already studied the various world views and now we can begin to see where each author fits. We observe and compare so that they are not deceived by a "good" line of thought that does not line up with scripture.

 

And when they get old enough and their minds are mature enough, we teach them to defend their faith. We teach them to write and speak winsomely so that others will see their wisdom, their knowledge, and their love of God and will be attracted to it. This allows our children to reach out to people because they have studied the types of beliefs people have. They can identify what the other person believes and already know the pitfalls of their beliefs.They have read the classics, and no one's perspective surprises them--they've been introduced to the world, and they understand the pain and sorrow and problems people have that could be helped by a loving God. They have also gained a great deal of wisdom through this study--they know what people think of Christians, and they can begin to exercise wisdom in how they share their faith so that they do not turn those people off by their in-your-face proclamation of the Gospel that does not address the person's real needs. They can practice, with prayer and discernment, when to speak and when to be silent and how to address the issues and share with love what they know to the college student in the dorm or the secretary at work or the guy who lifts weights in the YMCA. "There is nothing new under the sun." If we study the religions and world views along side our own faith, we will be ready to speak the truth in all situations.

 

Christian classical education prepares our children to be ready to be leaders in the Christian community and to reach out to the world with God's love. Why would any Christian want any less for her child?

Edited October 6, 2010 by Jean in Wisc
forgot a title

[Jean in Wisc]

I came back to the board this morning and my post was "gone". I thought, after all that typing, it vanished???

 

Whew! It is on page 2. LOL! I guess I haven't been visiting TWTM often enough anymore. I'm sure I've missed a lot of posts simply because I didn't know to look for "page 2". :lol:

 

Maybe it is good I'm almost done with homeschooling the brain is going...

 

:)

[Kates]

"Yes, wouldn't it be just awful if she grew up with the ability to think for herself?"... with the biggest eye roll I could manage.

 

I've actually said something pretty close to this when struck with this situation lol...yep, that pretty much sums it up.

 

Unless they want you critiquing how they raise and educate their children, I'd invite them to keep their thoughts to themselves. Giving advice when requested is one thing...sticking their noses into your business is another.

[teamturner]

Yes. Been there.

 

If it is a person to whom I care to give an answer, I become rather animated. I talk on and on. For those people who you describe in your post, I'd take a rather direct approach, taking their faith and how they view it and turn my response into something that would register with their goals for their children. So...let's say...:

 

Our children study the Bible and we teach them about our faith. Then we look to see what others believe and how that compares.

 

For example, we look at the Greeks. They had gods that were not holy and loving like our God, instead they are just like men--mean, vengeful...--only they have a lot more power. The Greeks saw life as a rolling of the dice. If they were lucky, their gods did not get angry with them. But if a god decided to be angry at them, they had no control of the situation. Cepheus and Cassiopeia had to chain their lovely daughter to a rock as an offering to a sea monster to appease their god. Our God, on the other hand, saw our rebellion and chose to come and pay the price for it. How different is that? How fantastic!

 

After the Greeks came the Romans. They changed their perspective on the gods. They still had the mythical gods of the Greeks, but they soon made themselves gods--the emperors were considered so. They saw man as something to worship. The Olympics, the battles--those who were strong and successful were worshiped. They worshiped man's body. They made their emperors into gods to be worshiped. Nero vs. my God? Pretty easy decision there.

 

And so we move up the time line. We study the history of the people and who they worshiped. We look at how their gods compare to ours. We talk about all the other faiths and beliefs and we set them along side of ours and we discuss them.

 

As my children grow older and are able to understand more, we begin to teach them to analyze what people say and believe, and we help them decide which is true Christian faith and which is not. We teach them to THINK, to REASON, to use LOGIC so that they can discern true Christian thinking from the false thinking that would tempt them to leave their faith. One of the greatest ways to do this is to read literature written by men and women of various faiths. We then can discuss them, finding what they believe and how it stacks up to the Bible. This allows us to have discernment--what the Bible tells us we must have! We, again, set these books side by side with our Bible. We look at what the author says. We try to understand what the author believes--after all, we've already studied the various world views and now we can begin to see where each author fits. We observe and compare so that they are not deceived by a "good" line of thought that does not line up with scripture.

 

And when they get old enough and their minds are mature enough, we teach them to defend their faith. We teach them to write and speak winsomely so that others will see their wisdom, their knowledge, and their love of God and will be attracted to it. This allows our children to reach out to people because they have studied the types of beliefs people have. They can identify what the other person believes and already know the pitfalls of their beliefs.They have read the classics, and no one's perspective surprises them--they've been introduced to the world, and they understand the pain and sorrow and problems people have that could be helped by a loving God. They have also gained a great deal of wisdom through this study--they know what people think of Christians, and they can begin to exercise wisdom in how they share their faith so that they do not turn those people off by their in-your-face proclamation of the Gospel that does not address the person's real needs. They can practice, with prayer and discernment, when to speak and when to be silent and how to address the issues and share with love what they know to the college student in the dorm or the secretary at work or the guy who lifts weights in the YMCA. "There is nothing new under the sun." If we study the religions and world views, we will be ready to speak the truth in all situations.

 

Christian classical education prepares our children to be ready to be leaders in the Christian community and to reach out to the world with God's love. Why would any Christian want any less for their child?

 

 

WOW! This is excellent. I would love to teach my dc this exactly. Any tips? Curriculum choices?

[kalphs]

Yes. Been there.

 

If it is a person to whom I care to give an answer, I become rather animated. I talk on and on. For those people who you describe in your post, I'd take a rather direct approach, taking their faith and how they view it and turn my response into something that would register with their goals for their children. So...let's say...:

 

Our children study the Bible and we teach them about our faith. Then we look to see what others believe and how that compares.

 

For example, we look at the Greeks. They had gods that were not holy and loving like our God, instead they are just like men--mean, vengeful...--only they have a lot more power. The Greeks saw life as a rolling of the dice. If they were lucky, their gods did not get angry with them. But if a god decided to be angry at them, they had no control of the situation. Cepheus and Cassiopeia had to chain their lovely daughter to a rock as an offering to a sea monster to appease their god. Our God, on the other hand, saw our rebellion and chose to come and pay the price for it. How different is that? How fantastic!

 

After the Greeks came the Romans. They changed their perspective on the gods. They still had the mythical gods of the Greeks, but they soon made themselves gods--the emperors were considered so. They saw man as something to worship. The Olympics, the battles--those who were strong and successful were worshiped. They worshiped man's body. They made their emperors into gods to be worshiped. Nero vs. my God? Pretty easy decision there.

 

And so we move up the time line. We study the history of the people and who they worshiped. We look at how their gods compare to ours. We talk about all the other faiths and beliefs and we set them along side of ours and we discuss them.

 

As my children grow older and are able to understand more, we begin to teach them to analyze what people say and believe, and we help them decide which is true Christian faith and which is not. We teach them to THINK, to REASON, to use LOGIC so that they can discern true Christian thinking from the false thinking that would tempt them to leave their faith. One of the greatest ways to do this is to read literature written by men and women of various faiths. We then can discuss them, finding what they believe and how it stacks up to the Bible. This allows us to have discernment--what the Bible tells us we must have! We, again, set these books side by side with our Bible. We look at what the author says. We try to understand what the author believes--after all, we've already studied the various world views and now we can begin to see where each author fits. We observe and compare so that they are not deceived by a "good" line of thought that does not line up with scripture.

 

And when they get old enough and their minds are mature enough, we teach them to defend their faith. We teach them to write and speak winsomely so that others will see their wisdom, their knowledge, and their love of God and will be attracted to it. This allows our children to reach out to people because they have studied the types of beliefs people have. They can identify what the other person believes and already know the pitfalls of their beliefs.They have read the classics, and no one's perspective surprises them--they've been introduced to the world, and they understand the pain and sorrow and problems people have that could be helped by a loving God. They have also gained a great deal of wisdom through this study--they know what people think of Christians, and they can begin to exercise wisdom in how they share their faith so that they do not turn those people off by their in-your-face proclamation of the Gospel that does not address the person's real needs. They can practice, with prayer and discernment, when to speak and when to be silent and how to address the issues and share with love what they know to the college student in the dorm or the secretary at work or the guy who lifts weights in the YMCA. "There is nothing new under the sun." If we study the religions and world views, we will be ready to speak the truth in all situations.

 

Christian classical education prepares our children to be ready to be leaders in the Christian community and to reach out to the world with God's love. Why would any Christian want any less for their child?

Bravo!

:hurray:

Thank you for your words of affirmation!

[justamouse]

Apparently according to these individuals by exposing Dd to "classical education" we are leading her down the path of sin/degradation and into the land of free thinking.

 

 

 

LOLOL! You know, you just can't win sometimes. Heaven forbid someone think freely! *eyeroll*

 

If you don't HAVE to answer them, just leave it. You're not going to please everyone and sometimes you just have to not care and go forward.

Edited October 4, 2010 by justamouse

[Stacy in NJ]

I'm sorry, but I find it really difficult to even take this type of criticism seriously. Perhaps you need to widen your net of friends.

[Kirch]

Yes. Been there.

 

If it is a person to whom I care to give an answer, I become rather animated. I talk on and on. For those people who you describe in your post, I'd take a rather direct approach, taking their faith and how they view it and turn my response into something that would register with their goals for their children. So...let's say...:

 

Our children study the Bible and we teach them about our faith. Then we look to see what others believe and how that compares.

 

For example, we look at the Greeks. They had gods that were not holy and loving like our God, instead they are just like men--mean, vengeful...--only they have a lot more power. The Greeks saw life as a rolling of the dice. If they were lucky, their gods did not get angry with them. But if a god decided to be angry at them, they had no control of the situation. Cepheus and Cassiopeia had to chain their lovely daughter to a rock as an offering to a sea monster to appease their god. Our God, on the other hand, saw our rebellion and chose to come and pay the price for it. How different is that? How fantastic!

 

After the Greeks came the Romans. They changed their perspective on the gods. They still had the mythical gods of the Greeks, but they soon made themselves gods--the emperors were considered so. They saw man as something to worship. The Olympics, the battles--those who were strong and successful were worshiped. They worshiped man's body. They made their emperors into gods to be worshiped. Nero vs. my God? Pretty easy decision there.

 

And so we move up the time line. We study the history of the people and who they worshiped. We look at how their gods compare to ours. We talk about all the other faiths and beliefs and we set them along side of ours and we discuss them.

 

As my children grow older and are able to understand more, we begin to teach them to analyze what people say and believe, and we help them decide which is true Christian faith and which is not. We teach them to THINK, to REASON, to use LOGIC so that they can discern true Christian thinking from the false thinking that would tempt them to leave their faith. One of the greatest ways to do this is to read literature written by men and women of various faiths. We then can discuss them, finding what they believe and how it stacks up to the Bible. This allows us to have discernment--what the Bible tells us we must have! We, again, set these books side by side with our Bible. We look at what the author says. We try to understand what the author believes--after all, we've already studied the various world views and now we can begin to see where each author fits. We observe and compare so that they are not deceived by a "good" line of thought that does not line up with scripture.

 

And when they get old enough and their minds are mature enough, we teach them to defend their faith. We teach them to write and speak winsomely so that others will see their wisdom, their knowledge, and their love of God and will be attracted to it. This allows our children to reach out to people because they have studied the types of beliefs people have. They can identify what the other person believes and already know the pitfalls of their beliefs.They have read the classics, and no one's perspective surprises them--they've been introduced to the world, and they understand the pain and sorrow and problems people have that could be helped by a loving God. They have also gained a great deal of wisdom through this study--they know what people think of Christians, and they can begin to exercise wisdom in how they share their faith so that they do not turn those people off by their in-your-face proclamation of the Gospel that does not address the person's real needs. They can practice, with prayer and discernment, when to speak and when to be silent and how to address the issues and share with love what they know to the college student in the dorm or the secretary at work or the guy who lifts weights in the YMCA. "There is nothing new under the sun." If we study the religions and world views, we will be ready to speak the truth in all situations.

 

Christian classical education prepares our children to be ready to be leaders in the Christian community and to reach out to the world with God's love. Why would any Christian want any less for their child?

 

You expressed this perfectly!! I'm going to save this and read it whenever I need a reminder of why we're doing what we're doing. Thank you!

[StephanieZ]

Pass the bean dip, for sure.

 

Two unacceptables: 1) someone criticizing my parenting decisions 2) someone espousing a back to the Dark Ages approach to child rearing.

 

Then, rethink if these are people you want to hang around. Personally, I'd find that approach to life so repulsive that I'd probably not ever see the person again. Possibly b/c I so offended them with my outraged response to their outrageous comment. . . and possibly b/c I managed to hold my tongue but subsequently became so dreadfully busy that I never happenned upon the same social situation as had exposed me to their offensive comment.

[IsabelC]

I think that many home educators (myself included) are far to much into justifying our choices to all and sundry, and don't do the Bean Dip ploy often enough.

 

My suggestion would be pick your battles. Or rather, pick the people you think are worth discussing your decisions with in detail. In most cases, it's not really the other person's business how you choose to facilitate your child's education, so you can safely tell them to butt out (in a polite way). With the people who are closely involved with your children and whose opinions you care about, you can set a boundary around the issues, but you may also want to offer information and resources to help them understand your reasoning, if they are genuinely interested and concerned.

 

As for the religious aspect, take this with a grain of salt since I'm not Christian, but ime the people who are strong in faith and really living their religion don't have a problem with expanding their knowledge and exchanging ideas (respectfully) with people of other backgrounds. (There are quite a few people on these boards who are intelligent, Christian, and open to discussing things.) What would be the virtue in a faith that is only held to because the adherent has been shielded from the fact that other opinions exist?

[kalphs]

As for the religious aspect, take this with a grain of salt since I'm not Christian, but ime the people who are strong in faith and really living their religion don't have a problem with expanding their knowledge and exchanging ideas (respectfully) with people of other backgrounds. (There are quite a few people on these boards who are intelligent, Christian, and open to discussing things.) What would be the virtue in a faith that is only held to because the adherent has been shielded from the fact that other opinions exist?

Well said!

:iagree:

[Jean in Wisc]

WOW! This is excellent. I would love to teach my dc this exactly. Any tips? Curriculum choices?

 

A good classical education will teach most of this.

 

Cover the basics--math, science, reading, writing, keyboarding, spelling,.... all that is part of a child's elementary education. Be sure to cover Bible study, memorization, family Bible time--teaching what you believe. Reading about other Christian beliefs (my kids went to AWANA, and we spent a lot of time comparing the Lutheran and Baptist beliefs). Talk about other faiths. There are prayer books that pray for people around the world. Take the time to look up something about those religions. BTW, I did very little of this in class time. It was our way of life. We prayed and read the Bible at breakfast. Sometimes we had a companion book that explained living in Bible Times or we used a catechism book. As they grew, we read a chapter or section in a book each week, and I made a big, wonderful Sunday breakfast to get them out of bed. We discussed books on all sorts of Christian topics--pain and sorrow, evangelism, Francis Schaefer, infant baptism, other religions, other Christian churches...

 

Teach composition. Write, write, write. I like a mixture of the traditional (i.e. Format Writing, IEW, 5-paragraph essay) with the progymnasmata. There are many good programs. Find one that works with your child. I collect composition programs--buy them when I see them used. I dip into them and have found wonderful tips on research papers, the precis, essays. I put together tidbits from various books to address the needs of each child. I could list a dozen programs, but if you read the boards and do a little research on those discussed and then make a list and keep watch on used curriculum boards, you can put together an impressive library without a ton of money.

 

Teach logic. (I collect this, too)

 

Study literature. I collect lit guides ad naseum, both from a Christian perspective and not, allowing us to compare them: Sparknotes, Cliff's Notes, Omnibus, Invitation to the Classics, Beautiful Feet history, Brightest Heaven of Invention, Smarr... I chose a list of books we want to read and then dig into the lit guides to find discussion topics.

 

Join a debate team if it is available. Or speech. Get them in front of people where they have to communicate and learn to think on their feet. My son, as cadet squadron commander in CAP, spends hours upon hours each year in front of people.

 

I teach a Philosophy, Ethics and World Views class their senior year--The Consequences of Ideas DVDs by Sproul (my dd said this taught more philosophy than her Philosophy 101 class taught in college), The Universe Next Door by Sire (How to Read Slowly can be done, too), Exploring Ethics put out by Christian Schools International is a challenging book--articles by Christians that support the homosexual movement, for example. This is a must read imo--our dc need to walk through these and discuss them with mom and dad BEFORE they get out the door to college or life. It gives them an understanding that these are not quack-jobs, but thinking, feeling people with a perspective that is not simply "cutting verses out of the Bible". Lots of books out there for this class.

 

But then all of this has to become a part of how you talk at the table, at bed time, when in the car. You need to start with the kids are young and discuss why cousin XYZ is pregnant and not married--teaching a mixture of compassion with "what is her world view?" even when the kids are small--how many times have I mentioned to my kids that we cannot expect someone to see the world as we do if they do not come from a Christian perspective...and they do not have to see the world as I do for me to be a friend. And so, what is a friend? Blah, blah, blah... you know, right? Get them talking, thinking, evaluating, comparing. Make it a lifestyle.

 

O.K. Ds needs the computer. Hope this helps. :) Jean

[kalphs]

A good classical education will teach most of this.

 

Cover the basics--math, science, reading, writing, keyboarding, spelling,.... all that is part of a child's elementary education. Be sure to cover Bible study, memorization, family Bible time--teaching what you believe. Reading about other Christian beliefs (my kids went to AWANA, and we spent a lot of time comparing the Lutheran and Baptist beliefs). Talk about other faiths. There are prayer books that pray for people around the world. Take the time to look up something about those religions. BTW, I did very little of this in class time. It was our way of life. We prayed and read the Bible at breakfast. Sometimes we had a companion book that explained living in Bible Times or we used a catechism book. As they grew, we read a chapter or section in a book each week, and I made a big, wonderful Sunday breakfast to get them out of bed. We discussed books on all sorts of Christian topics--pain and sorrow, evangelism, Francis Schaefer, infant baptism, other religions, other Christian churches...

 

Teach composition. Write, write, write. I like a mixture of the traditional (i.e. Format Writing, IEW, 5-paragraph essay) with the progymnasmata. There are many good programs. Find one that works with your child. I collect composition programs--buy them when I see them used. I dip into them and have found wonderful tips on research papers, the precis, essays. I put together tidbits from various books to address the needs of each child. I could list a dozen programs, but if you read the boards and do a little research on those discussed and then make a list and keep watch on used curriculum boards, you can put together an impressive library without a ton of money.

 

Teach logic. (I collect this, too)

 

Study literature. I collect lit guides ad naseum, both from a Christian perspective and not, allowing us to compare them: Sparknotes, Cliff's Notes, Omnibus, Invitation to the Classics, Beautiful Feet history, Brightest Heaven of Invention, Smarr... I chose a list of books we want to read and then dig into the lit guides to find discussion topics.

 

Join a debate team if it is available. Or speech. Get them in front of people where they have to communicate and learn to think on their feet. My son, as cadet squadron commander in CAP, spends hours upon hours each year in front of people.

 

I teach a Philosophy, Ethics and World Views class their senior year--The Consequences of Ideas DVDs by Sproul (my dd said this taught more philosophy than her Philosophy 101 class taught in college), The Universe Next Door by Sire (How to Read Slowly can be done, too), Exploring Ethics put out by Christian Schools International is a challenging book--articles by Christians that support the homosexual movement, for example. This is a must read imo--our dc need to walk through these and discuss them with mom and dad BEFORE they get out the door to college or life. It gives them an understanding that these are not quack-jobs, but thinking, feeling people with a perspective that is not simply "cutting verses out of the Bible". Lots of books out there for this class.

 

But then all of this has to become a part of how you talk at the table, at bed time, when in the car. You need to start with the kids are young and discuss why cousin XYZ is pregnant and not married--teaching a mixture of compassion with "what is her world view?" even when the kids are small--how many times have I mentioned to my kids that we cannot expect someone to see the world as we do if they do not come from a Christian perspective...and they do not have to see the world as I do for me to be a friend. And so, what is a friend? Blah, blah, blah... you know, right? Get them talking, thinking, evaluating, comparing. Make it a lifestyle.

 

O.K. Ds needs the computer. Hope this helps. :) Jean

Bravo!

:hurray:

You really should consider writing a book Jean!

:grouphug: