Really feeling down today and could use some cheering up and advice...whiney

[Heather in VA]

I guess I should be happy that my problem is with my youngest. More time to fix my incompetence. My high schooler and middle schooler are doing great - I love what we are using - I don't worry about what to use next because I know and I love the stuff.

 

I'm even quite satisfied with most everything for my youngest and know where we are going with her too. Except for the dreaded MATH. I just don't know what to do and if I cry anymore about it I'm going to be dehydrated. I'm a math major. You wouldn't think this would be a problem for me. She's in 2nd grade for heaven's sake.

 

I am a firm believer in understanding math. I think young students should be taught to see and understand what they are doing. I'd rather have a kid show me that 2 + 5 = 7 than just be able to say it. Place value is very important too. I had no trouble with the conceptual approach with my older two. One is very gifted in math and one is smart but math isn't her strong suit. Worked fine with them. This last one is going to drive me over the edge. I spent a year doing Right Start. It's not my favorite program but it was more consistent in the topics than what I'd been using and she seems like she needs repetition. She'd do well with the lessons and the games. But then she'd know nothing. Eventually RS B got too advanced with addition for her but didn't even start subtraction. She wasn't retaining anything. We played the games like crazy. Didn't help. The conceptual approach seemed too abstract for her. She would understand it while she was doing it but didn't seem to internalize what she was doing to allow for retention and real understanding. I finally decided that she is still too concrete for the conceptual approach. This year, against my better judgement, I decided she needed a step-by-step, traditional, spiral program. I bought Saxon. We both hate it. I knew I was going to hate it but I am willing to do whatever we need to do to get her on track with math. But this is a very non-complaining kid who loves everything we do and literally has a fit every time I pull out the math book. She is making some progress. She has managed to retain facts in a way she didn't with the RS games. I acknowledge that's good. But she's not learning anything else. It's all regurgitation. There are no concepts or understanding at all. There are a lot of questions like 'what comes before X' or 'what comes after' etc. She gets that fine but she really doesn't understand that 9-1 is the same as what comes before 1. They don't teach any of that. So now she's getting the concrete facts and no understanding. She doesn't automatically make connections the way my older two did so I am very leery of going down a path that won't point these out for her. Meanwhile she's miserable. She hates it. I'm miserable because we aren't on the path I want her on and I don't know how to get her there. And because DH leaning on me to get her up to speed.

 

She's ADHD (clinically - not just wiggly) but it's controlled and she does very well in all other subjects as long as she gets regular breaks to jump on the trampoline :-). I've looked at various math disabilities but nothing seems to really fit. And even if it did - it wouldn't solve my problem as to how to teach her effectively. I just don't know what to do.

 

Sorry for the whine. I'm just really down about this today.

 

Heather

[abbeyej]

I don't know how much I can help, but I wanted to throw a few things out there...

 

I too believe strongly in providing kids with a good conceptual foundation in mathematics. And that was *easy* to believe with my first kid who has always just *gotten* math. It was *fun* doing math with him because I could see the light going on and we just flew through material. (As my mother once observed, "I was such a fantastic teacher with my first two children! And then your sister came along and I had to admit that either I was an awful teacher or it had almost nothing to do with me!"... I don't think that's an entirely accurate assessment, lol, but I've certainly had moments of thinking "yeah, I know how she feels!"...)

 

Anyway, now I've got dd. And she doesn't get it. She doesn't *care* about math. She doesn't see it as a series of delightful puzzles to work out. She's convinced that the rules change *daily*. Last year I toyed with using RS (I had played the games with my son when he was smaller, and I had some of the manipulatives -- we ended up borrowing from a friend and working through part of it), but as you say, the conceptual understanding still wasn't really getting through...

 

But now, this year (she's 8.5), I'm seeing real strides. She's doing work her brother was doing at 6 and not "getting" it the way he did, but she's at least relatively strong compared to kids of her age and I am, for the first time, seeing some *progress* towards understanding math.

 

Which has caused me to think about my own math background. And I see the same pattern for me... Math was *hard* and it made *zero* sense to me in the early grades. I remember memorizing the order of answers on drill sheets like calculadders 'cause that was easier for me than trying to do the math. ;) I remember triangular flash cards and bundles of tongue depressors and toothpicks and piles of pennies and HATING math. ... But somewhere between 4th and 6th grades I started to "get" it. I started to see the patterns, and it started to be fun. By high school, I was actually pretty *good* at math and enjoyed it.

 

So I look at my dd and just remind myself that maybe she's like me. Maybe that deeper understanding will come a little later on than it came for her brother, but that doesn't mean it *isn't* coming.

 

So we plug away. And this year is a *lot* better than it has been. She's not where I want her to be, but a year ago I was reading about math-based LDs (none of which actually seemed to fit her) because her math ability lagged so very far behind her other academic work. ... So I tell myself it's going to continue to get better. And we just keep working. :)

[Heather in VA]

Thanks Abbeyej,

 

I want to believe it's going to get better. I don't even know if I'm doing the right thing while I wait for it to get better. Did you continue with conceptual teaching during that time? Did you memorize facts? Did you do some of each?

[abbeyej]

Did you continue with conceptual teaching during that time? Did you memorize facts? Did you do some of each?

 

Some of each. I try to talk her through the hows and whys, but sometimes she just has to accept a "this is the way it is". And in several cases now, she's come back to me later and said, "Hey! I just figured ____ out! It's like this!" and she goes ahead to explain the concept behind some very simple process that I've explained (in almost exactly her words -- and five other ways) over and over and over and over...

 

So I just tell myself that if we keep plugging away (with both concepts and facts), eventually it will come. I sure hope so!

[Hedgehog]

I have the feeling, that like many things, math takes time to "click". When your dd is ready, she will understand it. Until then, I would be inclined to treat it as a series of memory exercises. Saxon makes huge use of this - my dc have learned their times tables in full, and many different sets of math facts. Saxon also goes the extra mile to make sure the concepts are explained over and over. Now, when I say to my DDs, what is 2+5, they know it's 7. They know it because they learned the Plus 2 math facts, and they know it because that group of 2 pencils plus this group of 5 pencils make 7 pencils altogether. At the right time for the child, they understand one and then the other of these ways of learning.

 

She'll get it. As you say, she's in 2nd grade. Just so you know, my DDs weren't doing ANY math at that age (I was unschooling and they hated math, so it didn't happen). They're now 10 and 9 and on Saxon 6/5. :001_smile:

[Heather in VA]

Thanks ladies. I appreciate it. I need to try to get my DH to understand that this can happen. That sometimes it just takes time. I think he figures it's something I'm doing wrong or not doing. Doesn't help me feel confident.

 

Heather

[UmMusa]

I don't have any practical advice since I've been homeschooling all of two weeks now ;)

Just wanted to offer some support!

[HappyGrace]

We had similar issues with dd (now 10)-not ADD or anything though. But she is very very bright, and likes school and works a couple grade levels ahead except MATH!!! Oh, the drama we've had over MATH!!! I did all the conceptual stuff with her-Miquon, RS (A-C!! It was a nightmare!), etc. We were doing CLE concurrently and I finally just did that for awhile. No matter what the complaining was, it had to be done. It was over a year of her writing I HATE MATH in the margins, crying fits, etc. And she is usually very compliant. I pushed through it. I had really just come to the point where I figured it was just always going to be hard for her, but CLE would at least give her the basics with no gaps. (To answer your question to abbey-during this time I really had her work her facts with CLE, but I dropped all conceptual stuff.)

 

Then just over the past several months, we've FINALLY had a breakthrough. I don't know if it was maturity or what, but she's grasping, retaining, and GASP, liking math. Enough so that I was able to add in some MM worksheets each day to try to sneak in more conceptual ;), and that's helping her to understand even more (I do MM Light Blue, well behind her grade level to build her confidence.) She really truly is enjoying math much more now and it is really starting to click. It is like the sunshine finally came out for her on all this. I praise God every day for it, let me tell you! :D

 

Maybe just keep doing the Saxon, until she gets to a point like my dd did. Dd was the same-did NOT want to hear ANYthing about all my conceptual stuff for the longest time. Now that she is comfortable with the basic operations given to her the way she apparently needed it, she is much more open to the conceptual. I'm hoping that will happen with your dd too!

 

I wish I could tell you what worked, but I don't know, other than just maturity. But I just wanted to give you some sympathy :grouphug:, and some hope! :)

Edited September 27, 2010 by HappyGrace

[guateangel]

I can sympathize as I am going through the same thing with my 2nd grader. We are working on RSB, still not convinced it's a good fit for my dd, but we keep plugging on. I've been throwing in some MM Light Blue, as the pp said, in order to gain a little bit of confidence since she HATES math.

 

I'm giving my dd a couple more weeks, if there is no break through, I'm thinking of a 1 month hiatus in math.

 

Hang in there!

[Guest mrsjamiesouth]

Heather, I wanted to let you know that I have been teaching ds10 division since 3rd grade (he is in 5th this year) and finally last week when I was explaining it again he looked and me and said, "OH, I get it!"

I was relieved, excited, and part of me wanted to shake him just a little. :tongue_smilie: He has been crying over math since 3rd grade and this year he finally gets it and stopped crying.