AAS and retention - Help, please!

[jenL]

Ds is a strong reader, reading 2-3 grade levels above his current grade of 2nd; however, when it comes to spelling, he struggles.

 

I chose AAS because of the incremental, rule-based, phonetic approach to spelling. He loves doing spelling lessons, and he can tell me the rules when he sees the cards or when I'm dictating to him. Yet, when it comes to carrying this knowledge over to writing, he seems to forget everything including some of the simplest rules used in Step 1. He will sometimes misspell simple CVC words as if he can't remember the short vowel sound. When I try to get him to fix his mistakes, he becomes flustered and shuts down. He's a perfectionist, and to him, he's failing at spelling right now.

 

How can I help him retain this information? Will ds eventually just "get it" and it will stick? I don't want him to feel like a failure, but he's really struggling in retaining what I *thought* he knew.

 

Btw- we are moving slowly through the program and have only ventured to Level 2, step 4. Because of his struggles, I'm trying to really cement the info (even though it doesn't seem to be working).

[truebluexf]

I think I would try to point out the rules everywhere. For example, when he's reading something say "Oh, in that word "a" uses it's first short sound" or something similar. It's silly, but it just might help to solidify and bring things out of spelling lessons. You can do this when prereading copywork in WWE, etc. I notice my DD doing this all the time on her own...she figured out the word "once" because she realized "c" had two sounds. Also, when she asks me to spell something for her, if it's a rule she knows, I ask her to try, or remind her of the rule to coach her to do it on her own.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Will ds eventually just "get it" and it will stick? I don't want him to feel like a failure, but he's really struggling in retaining what I *thought* he knew.

 

I was listening to SWB's MP3s the other day and this is fresh in my mind. Either in The Joy of Classical Education or her grammar stage writing, SWB says the spelling rules generally do not transfer to written work outside of spelling while the kids are still in the grammar stage. DS7 is also a very strong (and voracious) reader and does well with AAS, always able to tell me the rules and spell things properly during lessons. I'm not seeing as much transfer between those strengths and his writing as I would like, but SWB made me feel better. :001_smile:

 

I agree with pp's suggestion to point out the rules everywhere. Also, if you're doing dictation, narration, etc. be sure to do immediate corrections for spelling there too. When they are writing creatively on their own, I always tell them how to spell a word if they ask me because better to ask than spell it wrong.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Alte Veste Academy

[shanvan]

www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158873&highlight=AAS

 

 

Hope this link works. I contributed on this thread, but don't have time now to retype all of my thoughts. I'll try to stop in tomorrow to update the strategies I use for encouraging retention.

 

Shannon

 

Okay, I can't get the link to work. You have to paste it into your search engine to find it. I'll try to post it again tomorrow.

Edited September 26, 2010 by shanvan

[siloam]

A couple of thoughts. Can you have him work with the words he misses in sand or some other multi-sensory method? You store different senses in different parts of your brain thus also increasing recall because you have several ways to possibly trigger a memory of how the word is spelled.

 

Second does he naturally see words in his mind? I am using a program with my 3rd dd that develops that ability because she doesn't naturally have it, and it seems to equate to a low visual memory of words. My oldest spells at an 8.8 grade level, but does so by "seeing" the word in her mind and writing it from what she remembers. If you ds doesn't naturally have that ability then you might want to consider using the methods outlined in Seeing Stars with your AAS work.

 

Heather

[monalisa]

My dd7.5 is very similar. She is on step 12 in AAS Level 2 and knows all the phonograms (plus some we haven't gotten to since we have the whole set), all the rules, usually can handle any review words etc., etc. However, she will do things like write words without vowels or put the letters in the wrong order (like when she's doing WWE2 dictation), and some other things that seem contrary to what she has learned seemingly well in AAS. I appreciate hearing SWB's comments about spelling not transferring over at their age.

[tarana]

Ds is a strong reader, reading 2-3 grade levels above his current grade of 2nd; however, when it comes to spelling, he struggles.

 

I chose AAS because of the incremental, rule-based, phonetic approach to spelling. He loves doing spelling lessons, and he can tell me the rules when he sees the cards or when I'm dictating to him. Yet, when it comes to carrying this knowledge over to writing, he seems to forget everything including some of the simplest rules used in Step 1. He will sometimes misspell simple CVC words as if he can't remember the short vowel sound. When I try to get him to fix his mistakes, he becomes flustered and shuts down. He's a perfectionist, and to him, he's failing at spelling right now.

 

Also I have to mention that WRTR material is cheap. WRTR Book(20$) & Flashcards(13$) is all you need.

How can I help him retain this information? Will ds eventually just "get it" and it will stick? I don't want him to feel like a failure, but he's really struggling in retaining what I *thought* he knew.

 

Btw- we are moving slowly through the program and have only ventured to Level 2, step 4. Because of his struggles, I'm trying to really cement the info (even though it doesn't seem to be working).

 

We had the same problem with my DD(8). She is a excellent reader (2-3) grades ahead but a horrible speller. We were using AAS and completed Level-2. Infact I made her redo Level-2 as retention was poor.

When she went into 3rd grade, the spelling words taken from her readers needed rules from Level-3 & upper. Even though I have the material for Level-3 & 4, I knew we could not catch up that fast.

 

Last Aug. we switched to WRTR. We are using only the Spelling part of it. I have all the rules printed on 1 sheet of paper so my DD has a feel for all the rules.

We deligently work on the syllabalization & identifying what rules are used & identify what sounds of the phonograms are used.

I have to say that with AAS she was cheating, because she knew we were dealing with 1 rule in a lesson. The WRTR spelling list has a good mix of rules & she can't use guess work. I started her at the 3rd grade spelling list so she finds the list more challenging. I am beginning to see her using her spelling skills in other areas too.

Edited September 26, 2010 by tarana

[Dana]

We're at Step 4 in Level 2 as well right now. I am really glad to read about SWB's comments about spelling not transferring to other subjects yet, because that's what I'm seeing!

 

However, when I see a misspelled word that ds "should" know, I have him look at how he wrote it, ask him to pronounce it the way he spelled it, and he often will catch that he misspelled it. If not, I have him segment it (we spent a lot of time practicing the segmenting with the discs) and that usually gets him to figure out the correct spelling.

 

Hang in there. You're not alone!

[shanvan]

I have changed some of how I do this now, but if you read below you'll see what I ended up doing. Basically, now throughout the week I make sure DD is writing the words on her own on the whiteboard several times and manipulating the letter tiles to spell the words. Then I have her complete a reinforcement worksheet that includes her writing either the entire rule, or the key parts and rewriting or highlighting the key parts of the words that help illustrate the rule. Finally, I require either sentences or a story using the words learned at the end of the week.

 

Requiring them to use the words as a part of their writing, I think, is key in getting the learning to transfer. I've also added in copywork of the rules to be placed at the beginning of her spelling binder. I require her to illustrate the rule with one word as an example. Hope this gives you some ideas.

 

Here is the info from several old posts.

 

Shannon

 

I also make up my own reinforcement worksheets to go highlight the rules and words that reinforce the rules. I spend at least two days a week just reviewing past learning from AAS on the witeboard. We also do a spelling story using spelling words once a week. My kids enjoy seeing how crazy and humorous they can make these stories. Since I started making up worksheets, I have begun to see more retention.

 

I used the zaner bloser website to create them so my dd could also count them as handwriting on the days she does them. The problem is I don't have them saved on my computer anywhere, but I'll try to give you an example.

 

My dd was struggling with when to use k and when to use c at the beginning of words. The top of this worksheet is a statement of the rule, sometimes in my own words, but with the key words left out so that she has to fill them in. So her worksheet says.. "To make the /k/ sound at the ______ of words try ___ first." Then I made a list of words as a word bank. Some start with c and some with K. The directions tell her to trace all the c's and the vowels following them with one color and the k's and all the vowels following them with another color. The next part of the worksheet asks her to write the word under the appropriate category. One category says Use c before a,o,u. The other says use k before i,e,y.

 

When she's done I check her work and see if she needs more practice. She files all her reinforcement worksheets in a 3 ring binder which I use for reference when I want to review with her on the white board. Sometimes I quiz her on the rules only, sometimes on the words, sometimes on both. I try to really mix up the whiteboard quizzes so I can be sure she knows it inside and out. In a way it's like the card file for AAS, but for some reason I find it easier. Maybe it's because the rule and word are all on one page and in one place so I can find them easily. I don't make a review worksheet for every rule, only the ones she is obviously forgetting, so her notebook of worksheets is really a good tool for review because it's specifically geared to the learning she needs.

 

Hopefully some of this makes sense. I also make up a cumulative test for each level of AAS to be sure they know the rules and can spell the words without me around. It helps me to know when it's okay to move on and serves as a way for me to see just which rules they learned in each level.

 

It really is just about seeing what the main ideas are for each rule and set of words and finding a way to force your child to notice them. Sometimes it is marking the vowels long and short, sometimes it is writing v above the vowel and c above the consonant (in a vccv word) and sometimes it is about tracing over certain combination of letters you want them to remember.

 

Doing it yourself is more work, but I've noticed that the things I design myself based on my childrens particular needs always work better than anything packaged. Besides, constantly searching for curriculum and new methods is more work with less results in the end. I did the same thing with math facts. I tried calculadders and other drill worksheets. The problem was, none of them addressed the exact facts my kids needed drilled. However, without AAS and Megawords as an outline, I would never have been able to come up with something on my own!:)

[Penelope]

He will sometimes misspell simple CVC words as if he can't remember the short vowel sound

Is this mainly mixing up e and i? Or is it more fundamental than that? You could sit with him as he is doing his writing and remind him as he is writing a word you think he will have trouble with, "remember to spell it sound by sound", "what sound do you hear next?" or if it is a consistent problem word, making the sounds one by one as he writes and having him write them.

 

A note of encouragement: my son in third grade this year, had a lot of thing seem to come together for him for spelling. At the end of second grade, no matter how many times I went over it with review, copywork, spelling strategies, etc., he would misspell the words ending in "ck" (stick, lick, and so on). I was pulling my hair out. But he finally got it, and a lot of other words that we were going over and ovver again. He also got mixed up for a while and wanted to spell every long-a word with "ai" for months, and every long-o word with "oa". We are still sorting this out. But I do see a big leap of improvement this year, and some of it is probably the spelling program and practice, while some of it is probably age and more years of reading fluency. On other homeschool boards I have visited, many people do not even start a formal spelling program until 3rd grade, and I think that is probably the reason. However, I am looking into the program Heather linked as well, because I am seeing more and more that ds doesn't "see" the words the way a lot of children do, and to be honest I'm not sure that a program like AAS that really emphasizes spelling by sound, is going to fix that by itself.

[jenL]

I'm so glad to hear I am not alone! Thank you to the link for SWB's lecture regarding spelling not transferring over at this age! I was beginning to think I was dealing with a problem bigger than myself and my son. Also, thank you shanvan for searching for one of your old posts. I'm going to try many of these ideas and give the program more time. :)

[robsiew]

Ds is a strong reader, reading 2-3 grade levels above his current grade of 2nd; however, when it comes to spelling, he struggles.

 

I chose AAS because of the incremental, rule-based, phonetic approach to spelling. He loves doing spelling lessons, and he can tell me the rules when he sees the cards or when I'm dictating to him. Yet, when it comes to carrying this knowledge over to writing, he seems to forget everything including some of the simplest rules used in Step 1. He will sometimes misspell simple CVC words as if he can't remember the short vowel sound. When I try to get him to fix his mistakes, he becomes flustered and shuts down. He's a perfectionist, and to him, he's failing at spelling right now.

 

How can I help him retain this information? Will ds eventually just "get it" and it will stick? I don't want him to feel like a failure, but he's really struggling in retaining what I *thought* he knew.

 

Btw- we are moving slowly through the program and have only ventured to Level 2, step 4. Because of his struggles, I'm trying to really cement the info (even though it doesn't seem to be working).

 

I would not push the spelling. He's quite young yet. Reading and spelling are two different skills, so just because they read well, does not mean they spell well. There's a lot that goes into a young child's writing process. Most of it has to do with just being able to get the words from their head to the paper...

 

I read somewhere that children do not spell using correct spelling consistently (even with instruction) until they are about 12. At that age, provided you have been faithful with instruction, you should see more and more words spelled correctly. I notice a huge difference this year with my almost 10 year old. He's in Level 5 of AAS.

 

With my kids, I make a point of pointing out their spelling errors and just gently reminding them of rules when they forget them. Just because they studied the rule for one week doesn't mean they don't need ongoing review to remember the rules. Eventually, words such as CVC words will become second nature and they will be able to attack a new few rules.

 

In addition, some things they write I just don't correct their spelling. This gives them a chance to write without getting corrected ALL. THE. TIME. Sometimes they are just so proud of the **ideas** they expressed I don't want to burst their bubble with all the spelling errors.

 

Your ds is only 7 as I can tell... I'd just progress through AAS... continue to review... just move along. You will see it all come together at some point.

 

ETA... I didn't read the other posts! Now I remember where I heard the spelling thing! Must have been SWB's lecture! Sorry for the repeat of info... I don't always read all the posts before posting!

[shanvan]

for sentences or spelling stories I don't require every word from AAS to be used. I pick a number that I think is good for the student depending on the age and penmanship ability.

 

Shannon

[MerryAtHope]

I would not push the spelling. He's quite young yet. Reading and spelling are two different skills, so just because they read well, does not mean they spell well. There's a lot that goes into a young child's writing process. Most of it has to do with just being able to get the words from their head to the paper...

 

I agree :).

 

I read somewhere that children do not spell using correct spelling consistently (even with instruction) until they are about 12.

 

 

You may be thinking about the Unscope and Sequence article from the bravewriter site.

 

 

At that age, provided you have been faithful with instruction, you should see more and more words spelled correctly. I notice a huge difference this year with my almost 10 year old. He's in Level 5 of AAS.

 

I started noticing more of a difference after level 3. I think the longer dictations and the writing station really help, plus just maturing/getting older, and more experience with both writing and reading.

 

Here's an article on helping kids use more of their spelling skills in their writing that also incorporates review ideas for AAS. Hang in there, I agree, 7 is still very young :-).

 

Merry :-)