I've seen SWB's comparison of IEW and WS, but not any of her comments on

[Shasta Mom]

CW. Does anyone know if she has critiqued this program?

[mommy247]

I too would love to Susan's comments/thoughts on Classical Writing. I am trying to understand the strengths/weaknesses of CW and IEW and Writing Strands all compared.

 

Blessings

Renee

[Mama Lynx]

She did one, somewhere waaaaaaaaaaaay back on the old board. If I get time this evening, I'll look for the link.

 

In a nutshell, she said she didn't recommend it because 1) the program was far from being finished; and 2) it required lots of intensive teaching, and large learning curve for the teacher. SWB prefers to recommend programs that are both good and easy to teach.

 

But IIRC, she thought the curriculum itself was good.

 

I just did a quick search, and did not come up with her review. I hope I'm representing it accurately. This is what I remember, though.

[pixelroper]

link

 

There may be more!

 

I've been meaning to search for this thanks for the reminder.

[Mama Lynx]

It looks to me like that review doesn't exist any more.

 

I've found places on the web where people talk about Susan's review, and they say what I remembered: Her review was generally positive, but she had concerns about it not being user-friendly.

[Carol in Cal.]

She talked about how there was an assumption that the parent would know and be prepared to teach grammar, without any handholding at all, for instance. Bottom line--she thought that it would probaby be a great program when finished if it were used by parents who already were realy good at language arts, but that as it was unfinished at that point, and not as user friendly as some other programs, she couldn't really recommend it broadly then.

 

Subsequently, Lene has released more of the program; and grammar workbooks and/or guides have been added. I imagine that SWB might have a different response to it now. She certainly seemed to respect Lene very highly as a writing teacher. (They both used to be on these boards quite a bit.)

[Shasta Mom]

for my 4th grade ds. It's interesting how SWB really likes WS. I have a copy - level 3 that would be appropriate for my ds, and I peruse it now and again and cannot figure out what she likes so much. I like the price tag, obviously, and don't mind the "flip" tone. When I then look at samples of CW on the internet, it seems to be much more thorough than WS. We started R&S 4 this year, and will continue next year, and now I'm wondering if I even need a formal writing program. It seems like the users on the board of CW like it, but I noticed that it didn't come up once in the poll the other day of "gems" that people had found during the year. I don't want to try IEW - I just dont' want to watch a video - is that silly?

Thanks for listening1

[LisaCA]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/J00review.html

 

I found this link on the Writing Strands Site.

[Kathie in VA]

One thing to remember about reviews is what the reviewer considers important and to whom they are making suggestions. It is not just that a program will achieve the advertised results, it's also the cost, the amount of prep work on the teacher, if it combines other related subjects, if it just focuses on the one subject, the teaching style, the learning style, etc.

 

I do think she must like the idea of the progymnasmata since she said ( I think) that she will be utilizing it for the upper levels of her writing program. She has said that it is a good program. Her reservations were mainly around the learning curve for the teacher/mom. Remember she is offering ideas to everyone! So, SWB seems to suggest programs that are quick and easy to implement yet still offer good (in her opinion) results. (ie. writing strands).

 

BTW: SWB reviewed CW before the workbooks were out and before some of the upper levels were out.

 

hth

[Shasta Mom]

I don't have the ability to go to any curriculum fairs.....it's all from this board that I'm making my decision........and I'm still unclear what to do!

[Rhondabee]

will take you through the progym. So, there's no reason to feel like if you miss the CW-time-schedule, your children are destined to never experience the benefits of the progym exercises.

 

Also, one thing that many CW-users do not make prominent is that quite a few people who use CW (the author, Lene, and some users here, anyway) do not schedule science. (Lene does science in the summer according to a post on the CW Website.) It is not that CW isn't a great writing and grammar program, but it is very time-consuming.

 

I have Aesop and Homer here, but simply could not sacrifice other things to make it a reality here. I think if you really, really believe in the program you will be willing to drop something (maybe science, maybe something else) to make it happen (or school year-round). If you can't honestly see yourself letting go of something in order to make CW happen, then you might want to try to find another program. (I say that, but then, I had to buy Aesop and Homer and make a trial run at it before my curiosity was satisfied, so don't feel bad if you do that, either!)

 

Best wishes! It's a hard decision.

Rhonda

[Lenora in MD]

What would that high school recommendation be?

[Shasta Mom]

bring up an interesting point - the time committment. What are our priorities? I've told my friends that I want my ds to be able to write. His dad and I are both scientists with decent writing skills, but neither of us were trained so intensely as kids - and I admire the kids that enter college and can write! And the science issue - it sounds like WTM places a lesser emphasis on it in younger years. But, I have a 9 yo ds who is constantly looking at the world and asking questions. It doesn't seem right to suppress it....And that brings up the issue of overloading his academic schedule. I think there is merit and easing off so that the child can develop and learn throughout the day in a non-academic environment. Will CW make us sit for another hour inside our house? Decisions, decisions!

[profmom]

BTW: SWB reviewed CW before the workbooks were out and before some of the upper levels were out.

 

hth

 

 

This is a very important point. Without the workbooks, CW would be much more time-consuming!

 

Also, Shasta, your dc could write outside. :)

 

(CW fan here! :D)

[Shasta Mom]

still another datum in my decision-making process...

 

Also - I'm curious what the high school writing program that SWB recommends.....anyone know?

[pixelroper]

But, I have a 9 yo ds who is constantly looking at the world and asking questions. It doesn't seem right to suppress it....And that brings up the issue of overloading his academic schedule. I think there is merit and easing off so that the child can develop and learn throughout the day in a non-academic environment. Will CW make us sit for another hour inside our house? Decisions, decisions!

 

I do not use it that way. The workbooks are a boon and a curse. They make implementing the whole approach (grammar, spelling, reading & other subjects) very easy. While that does take time, it also condenses the LA subjects, which can require less time than teaching them all separate. The wbs seem to make people think that you have to do all of that. The workbooks are offered as a pick up and go solution, but they aren't the only way to use it. KWIM??

 

There isn't any suppressing... It is important to to see it as a writing program first, they encourage you to apply the same skills across the curriculum. I've been working w/Aesop for two years, due to age and dd's willingness to write. I now realize how simple it is despite seeming complicated. It is very customizable, they provide so much info (to educate parent, IMHO) that it can seem more complicated than it really is. Sometimes I do not even make dd write her own version, I dictate, especially if we are short on time. I've also used the process to have her write outlines for history or frame a narration. It seems to be working as her own creative writing is flourishing and I stay out of that. I think this program builds confidence.

 

I am a fan of CW too :D

[Shasta Mom]

people who've actually used the program be so supportive of it. Ok, so let's say I took the plunge and got it. I've been to the websites and peaked inside the core manual, and the other stuff. I think I would be inclined to get the core, the IG and the wkbk. My ds will start it in 4th grade. He's probably slightly advanced in language arts - so would the "B" books be a better bet - and take the whole year to do them? Or, since we are new to the program, would you recommend "A" books? I've looked at Homer, and don't think we would be jumping into that halfway through 4th grade. I've got WS I can use also during grade 4...

 

Thanks for all the help!

[pixelroper]

getting the core & Aesop B. You could go through the core to determine where your dc would be-they have the skills listed sequentially for customizing the program. You may want to add your own models to preface the wbB, as a way to get dc's skills on track w/the lessons. The first week is a grammar review from Aesop A. Aesop B begins diagramming sentences from the models.

 

I can also suggest maybe getting the core first to make sure you actually need the WB & IG. Especially if you aren't sure about doing all the LA together in CW. The core can be used on its own, but as others have pointed out it takes time to get through.

 

to keep w/the OP, I would like to add that I started CW before SWB came out w/her program. I highly recommend SWB's material as I have used some it w/great success. Due to dd's age and level, SWB's material was not available when I was looking at writing program options and I was not happy w/WS for several reasons.

[WTMindy]

people who've actually used the program be so supportive of it. Ok, so let's say I took the plunge and got it. I've been to the websites and peaked inside the core manual, and the other stuff. I think I would be inclined to get the core, the IG and the wkbk. My ds will start it in 4th grade. He's probably slightly advanced in language arts - so would the "B" books be a better bet - and take the whole year to do them? Or, since we are new to the program, would you recommend "A" books? I've looked at Homer, and don't think we would be jumping into that halfway through 4th grade. I've got WS I can use also during grade 4...

 

Thanks for all the help!

 

I don't mean to discourage you, by any means, but I thought you might need to hear both sides. I bought and sold CW 2 times!! Once without the workbook and once with. It was too much work without the workbooks for me to implement, although I like the idea in theory. And, the workbook frustrated me because my kids already knew all the grammar in Aesop, so I ended up having to try and pull my own grammar out anyways. Plus, I did NOT like the writing samples they chose in the workbooks. I did not think they were well written.

 

I don't believe a kid has to know the pro-gym to be a good college writer. A student really only has to know how to write good 5 paragraph essays (more or less) to do well in college since that is the majority of what they do. A student has to know how to organize their thoughts and put them into a coherent, gramatically correct structure. This is taught in many writing programs. Right now I'm using IEW (minus quite a bit of the stylistic stuff) and getting good results. It is a great way to teach kids how to organize their writing.

 

I have not used or seen anything above Aesop, by the way, but I could not make Aesop work for us for the life of me! Good luck in your writing hunt!!

[Rhondabee]

What would that high school recommendation be?

 

It is how to continue your logic study with rhetoric/writing.

 

The specific book that covers the progym is Corbett's "Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student", and it is discussed (tho' briefly) on p. 468 in the Revised WTM.

 

hth,

Rhonda

[Rhondabee]

It really is a matter of knowing your own kids (and yourself) well enough. I am personally drawn to CW, but I'm learning that I can't push my phlegmatic kids as hard as I could have pushed my A-type-personality-self. ;)

 

But, given different kids (DD is 3yo and seems to be more like me - Yeah!), well....who knows? (That's why I'm not offering my CW to anyone for a look-see.)

 

:)

Rhonda

[Rhondabee]

I keep them safely boxed away, so I can go look at them whenever I get CW-envy. I know if I sell them, I'll end up buying them again!!

 

:lol:

Rhonda

[profmom]

Shasta, with an 8 yo, you could also look at WT. With my oldest, I went with CW-Aesop B beginning in 4th grade. This year in 5th we're doing Homer A (and spent time with Poetry A) and will continue with Homer B in 6th.

 

With #2, I decided to try WT1 this year in 3rd. I can't say yet whether it's as challenging or thorough as CW-Aesop, but it's much more user-friendly and probably more fun. I do like using WT. I've gotten the impression that others here feel that WT1 & 2 is equivalent to CW-Aesop and the dc would be able to go into CW-Homer from either path. (Would anyone like to comment on that?)

 

HTH!