Classical Writing

[Denise Allen]

I have never heard of this program till this site. Could you please tell me what you like about CW? I was considering IEW, but am now lookiing into this.

 

My children will be 8th, 7th, 2nd.

 

Thanks so much.

[mllehmann]

I have used a variety of the Classical Writing books with my kids. They are fairly teacher intensive. They are divided into two parts analysis and writing. The analysis part, along with a grammar text, really reinforces the basics of grammar 4 days a week. My two oldest have tested very high as 9th graders on the SAT (college entrance exam) having used this series of books. The writing portion uses stories or parts of stories that the student imitates over a period of 4 days (outlining, drafting, revising, finalizing).

 

My kids really liked the Aesop book were they used their imaginations to come up with some funny variations of Aesop's fables. They also enjoy the stories in Homer. The analysis section in Homer is very intense. The Diogenes series has helped with their essay writing and is also intense. Many of the selections for Diogenes are from Great Books that they have read or will be reading. The analysis sections can be very challenging, but provide a great introduction to reading and understanding the Great Books. We are waiting for Herodotus to be released and will try it as well.

 

Michelle in WA

[Denise Allen]

UGGHH!! I wish I could just look at both of these programs! They are both so expensive I hate to buy without seeing.

 

PLEASE anyone tell me what you HATE about either of them.

[elfinbaby]

I have been using IEW history based lessons for 2 years. I will be using CW this year w/my 6th grader (Older Beginners) for the first time.

 

What I like about IEW - it's easy to teach and I find the lessons well laid out. It teaches the basic structure of a variety of different papers so nicely. My ds did very well with the program.

 

So - since he has the "formula" in his repatoire, it got a little too easy for him and it turned into "how crazy can I make this paper" with all of the added dress-ups, decorations, etc.

 

CW looks like it teaches the same information and I'm in love with the books; however, it took days and some serious concentration to figure out how this program is implemented. I don't have my workbooks yet. I think that's the main problem. Honestly, while I love the TM and the philosophy, I was scared because I wasn't sure I could do it. It certainly appears that CW is going to take more of my own time and attention to teach. That wouldn't bother me except for the fact that I have a 2 yr. old who tends to (literally) dismantle the house if not constantly supervised.

 

I didn't hate anything about IEW. What exactly are you looking to buy from IEW? What from CW? What kind of experience do your dc have with writing? What have you been using?

[dangermom]

I love CW, but it's not easy to wrap your head around how they do things at first. Then the lightbulb goes on. :) At Lulu they have sample pages, and you can often read a good bit to figure some of it out.

 

It does take time and interaction, but IMO writing is important enough that it should get that investment.

[Denise Allen]

I have been using IEW history based lessons for 2 years. I will be using CW this year w/my 6th grader (Older Beginners) for the first time.

 

What I like about IEW - it's easy to teach and I find the lessons well laid out. It teaches the basic structure of a variety of different papers so nicely. My ds did very well with the program.

 

So - since he has the "formula" in his repatoire, it got a little too easy for him and it turned into "how crazy can I make this paper" with all of the added dress-ups, decorations, etc.

 

CW looks like it teaches the same information and I'm in love with the books; however, it took days and some serious concentration to figure out how this program is implemented. I don't have my workbooks yet. I think that's the main problem. Honestly, while I love the TM and the philosophy, I was scared because I wasn't sure I could do it. It certainly appears that CW is going to take more of my own time and attention to teach. That wouldn't bother me except for the fact that I have a 2 yr. old who tends to (literally) dismantle the house if not constantly supervised.

 

I didn't hate anything about IEW. What exactly are you looking to buy from IEW? What from CW? What kind of experience do your dc have with writing? What have you been using?

 

Thank you so much for this information!

You said what I have been thinking. The CW looks amazing to me, but I am a bit nervous about trying to figure it all out. I have heard several people (on here) say they either gave it up or are about to. I don't mind the work being hard, but I really can't stand if something is not clearly explained. I know it would frustrate me. It makes me wonder if it is such a good program, why couldn't it have been written more clearly?

 

From CW I would purchase the Aesop & Homer for Older Beginners (my oldest are 7th & 8th grade).

From IEW I would buy just the TWSS. I would probably add a History themed text later.

 

I am a decent writer. My daughter is very talented w/ writing. My son is average.

[Denise Allen]

I love CW, but it's not easy to wrap your head around how they do things at first. Then the lightbulb goes on. :) At Lulu they have sample pages, and you can often read a good bit to figure some of it out.

 

It does take time and interaction, but IMO writing is important enough that it should get that investment.

 

How long have you been using the program?? I have heard exactly what you just said~ it takes a bit, but is worth the effort.

[Denise Allen]

I have been using IEW history based lessons for 2 years. I will be using CW this year w/my 6th grader (Older Beginners) for the first time.

 

What I like about IEW - it's easy to teach and I find the lessons well laid out. It teaches the basic structure of a variety of different papers so nicely. My ds did very well with the program.

 

So - since he has the "formula" in his repatoire, it got a little too easy for him and it turned into "how crazy can I make this paper" with all of the added dress-ups, decorations, etc.

 

CW looks like it teaches the same information and I'm in love with the books; however, it took days and some serious concentration to figure out how this program is implemented. I don't have my workbooks yet. I think that's the main problem. Honestly, while I love the TM and the philosophy, I was scared because I wasn't sure I could do it. It certainly appears that CW is going to take more of my own time and attention to teach. That wouldn't bother me except for the fact that I have a 2 yr. old who tends to (literally) dismantle the house if not constantly supervised.

 

I didn't hate anything about IEW. What exactly are you looking to buy from IEW? What from CW? What kind of experience do your dc have with writing? What have you been using?

 

I too am concerned with what you said about it becoming too easy. I can't quite understand how you can use the same "formula", dress-ups, etc. repeatedly. Perhaps if I actually saw how it all works I would understand....

[Peela]

Loved CW Aesop. Loved some of CW Homer...but then got very bogged down. They are teacher intensive programs- you cannot generally hand them over. And if each child is at a different level it's very time consuming. I combined two at the time, and had my 3rd at another level ( i was homeschooling another kid) and I still found it exhausting.

CW is brilliant, fantastc, wonderful, may well produce great writers...but the price is high. Its a lot of work, a lot of study for the parent, and really, the program could be a lot more user friendly.

IEW never really appealed to me though. I did use the Medieval writing lessons and liked them. But I am terrible at watching DVDs.

I would use Peace Hill products, I think, if I was going through again. I wish they had the logic stage writing course for my kids.

[dangermom]

How long have you been using the program?? I have heard exactly what you just said~ it takes a bit, but is worth the effort.

 

We are starting Homer B with my oldest, the younger is starting Aesop A. So, this is our 4th year. We also did the first half of Poetry for Beginners.

 

I think it's very worth it, but if you are trying to do it with 3 kids of different ages it might kill you. :) Homer is much easier to understand if, instead of trying to read the core book straight through (it's arranged by days), you read by skill levels--which is actually how you are going to experience it. So, it's arranged like this in the core book:

 

Day 1

--Skill Level 1

--Skill Level 2

--Skill Level 3

--etc. up to 10

 

Day 2

--Skill Level 1

--Skill Level 2

--Skill Level 3

--etc. up to 10

 

Day 3

--Skill Level 1

--Skill Level 2

--Skill Level 3

--etc. up to 10

 

Day 4

--Skill Level 1

--Skill Level 2

--Skill Level 3

--etc. up to 10

 

And you will find it way easier if you read it like this:

 

Skill Level 1

--Day 1

--Day 2

--Day 3

--Day 4

 

Skill Level 2

--Day 1

--Day 2

--Day 3

--Day 4

 

...and so on. That may also be true of Aesop, but that's a relatively simple program and I didn't realize this when I read it.

 

I don't know what I'll do if CW proves too much for me (IEW doesn't grab me), but I only have two kids and the older is moving towards more independence. My hope is that she will gradually need less hand-holding. I really do feel, though, that CW has been tremendously valuable for her so far and it's really helped me a lot in understanding writing. If you do the work, it really pays off.

[Denise Allen]

Thanks dangermom :)

 

Very helpful information. I would only be doing it with my oldest two, and they would be doing the same level. That would make it easier.

 

As far as what I have heard about it being a bit confusing~ is that pertaining mainly to the parent (such as the example you gave above w/ the way the steps are laid out)? What I mean is this: is it confusing to the child? Is it something that once the parent figures out, it is easily explained to the child.

 

Thanks again.

[dangermom]

Yes, the confusion will be entirely on your side. I think it's that CW is an ambitious program and they lay it all out in detail, so it's a lot to absorb. Once you wrap your brain around it, it's fairly simple: it's incremental study on every aspect of writing, so it's a lot. The basic pattern is this: you take a kind of writing as a focus for the year--in Homer, it's narratives that contain several scenes (instead of just one, as in the Aesop level).

 

Day one, you study the whole model story and make sure the child understands it--every word, every paragraph, every scene. Child writes a rough draft of the story in own words.

 

Day two, look at words: do vocabulary study, synonyms and suchlike, and parts of speech. Child edits draft.

 

Day three, look at sentences: rewrite model sentences in several different ways, parse and diagram sentences. More editing of draft.

 

Day four, look at paragraphs: paraphrase a model paragraph and study paragraph construction. Copy out final version of child's story.

 

 

For each of these activities, you slowly step up in skill and complexity, never doing anything that is a huge jump from what is already familiar. So at the beginning of Homer, you're learning to paraphrase "The mice had a council." And you slowly add in more, until at the end of Homer B (two years later) you can rewrite "She wove a web of marvelous beauty, so thin and light that it would float in the air, and yet so strong that it could hold a lion in its meshes" in 6 different ways, each for a different purpose.

 

What I really like about CW at the moment is how it teaches you (by teeny baby steps) to write anything in a bunch of ways, so that you're never stuck thinking there's only one way to say it. You learn to tailor your words to whatever job you need them to do, and it's so incremental that pretty well anyone can learn to do it if they invest the time and work. I never learned anything even close to it in school.

[Denise Allen]

Thanks again~ very helpful. One thing I forgot to ask: I already have a grammar program that I like. Is it worth it to purchase this program (it will cost quite a bit for me to do it with two kids if I start w/ the Aesop & Homer for older beginners) and then NOT do the grammar in it?

 

I am wondering if there is a program that is similar to CW, but without the other subjects integrated.

[Denise Allen]

I think too much research can be a bad thing. I have seen the threads on the Lost Tools of Writing (not too many on here), and this program looks good also. UGGHH! Now I will have to keep researching all 3 of these programs!!!! :ohmy:

[elfinbaby]

I think you can do your own grammar program. The threads I read in the other forum suggested that I could use what I wanted - I was looking at Analytical Grammar at the time.

 

I also was told that there is a lot of grammar built in to the Older Beginners program, if I'm understanding correctly.

[SilverMoon]

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Edited June 7 by SilverMoon

[dangermom]

I also use Rod & Staff--Harvey's did not grab me. We have grammar with R&S, and use CW's exercises for supplementation--we do the diagramming and parsing together and have never bothered much with spelling. I do think their grammatical exercises are good to do, but in a crunch that's what goes.

[Denise Allen]

Is it worth the money, do you think, just to use it for the writing part or would it be wiser to find a program that teaches only the writing??

[SilverMoon]

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Edited June 7 by SilverMoon

[dangermom]

I think it's worth the money either way. (I am frugal with my homeschooling cash, but I do buy R&S English and CW. I belong to a charter that pays for most things, but these two come out of my own pocket because I think they're best for us and I'm willing to pay for them. The charter won't pay for religious materials, even though CW only qualifies because the authors talk about their faith in the introductions.)

[Denise Allen]

Thanks again for taking your time to help me out. I do appreciate it!

[dangermom]

You're very welcome. :001_smile: