Reading issues w/ 9 yo

[fenni]

I'm feeling really frustrated about this tonight.

I need to know if this is a serious concern or something I can just let go of.

My 9 yo son constantly skips words or inserts whatever he chooses for them, mostly little words. i.e. It says "in" and he reads "at" or skips it completely. It is driving me crazy! If it is a serious concern, how can I break him of it? We have read through Reading Pathways. It helped some with bigger words. He will take the time now to break the word apart and sound it out (well if I am sitting with him.) He just has too many errors in his reading.

insight?

[Mandamom]

That is a dyslexic tendency. Do some repetitive fluency readings -- pick a short paragraph (2-3 paragraphs) that are slightly challenging for him and have him read it over and over again over a couple of days until he perfects it and then pick another passage. As he improves, his fluency should improve and should reduce some of the word errors. You should continue to get more difficult passages as his reading becomes better.

 

Continue to use a good phonics/spelling program to help him solidify the rules of words especially so that he can decode bigger words.

[apple4]

Last year we started Vision Therapy with our twin girls in 2nd grade. What you are experiencing "could" be a vision issue. Our girls still mix letters or read words backwards some but their reading is soooo much better. If, at some point, you want to look into this possibility, you really want to do some research on who you see. I also don't know what kind of reading program you have used, but maybe a strong phonics program like Spell to Write and Read could help. I think there are other good ones out there too, but that is one I really like. It takes some work getting started with SWR, but once you understand it, it is open and go. Amy

[fenni]

Could it maybe be that he just isn't being careful? I have often wondered if it is that simple or if there is a deeper issue. I have been having him read aloud to me and making him correct every error. It irritates him. We used MFW 1st and a mixed bag before that. We started Elizabeth's online phonics lessons, but then switched to Reading Pathways. I felt earlier this year that phonics was the issue but I do not feel that way any longer.

 

I will try the repetitive fluency readings. How do I determine that it is slightly challenging? Could I use McGuffey's readers for this? I have a set that MIL gave to me, but never use them.

[Guest mrsjamiesouth]

Could it maybe be that he just isn't being careful? I have often wondered if it is that simple or if there is a deeper issue. I have been having him read aloud to me and making him correct every error. It irritates him. We used MFW 1st and a mixed bag before that. We started Elizabeth's online phonics lessons, but then switched to Reading Pathways. I felt earlier this year that phonics was the issue but I do not feel that way any longer.

 

I will try the repetitive fluency readings. How do I determine that it is slightly challenging? Could I use McGuffey's readers for this? I have a set that MIL gave to me, but never use them.

 

I had my ds10's vision checked in 1st grade because his teacher felt like he had a vision problem, but he didn't have a vision problem. We also worried about dsylexia, but it is not that either. He had his hearing checked too because I thought he just may not be able to hear sound differences! He does the same thing your son does. He even did it to me today! I feel it is due to laziness with mine. He doesn't want to take the time to sound out or really look at the page, so he guesses and moves on to get it done.

He will replace things like pond and lake, so I know he is reading context clues and guessing.

 

I just make him read aloud to me everyday, we also started using audio books. I get the paperback and the audio, he reads while listening. This has improved his reading tremendously!!

[Mandamom]

I've not seen McGruffy's Readers but I've used a lot of different things including textbooks.

 

Have him read a section and see how many mistakes he makes. You want him to start at a level where he makes more than a couple of mistakes.

[fenni]

Thanks, Mandamom. He was reading Tornado to me tonight (RL 3.1) and the words are not difficult for him, but he just makes all those little word errors. Do I count those little word errors or do I want more challenging text? am I making sense? LOL!

 

Mrsjamiesouth, thank you for chiming in. I do think that my son just doesn't want to be bothered unless it is something that interests him. He just had a regular vision exam and passed w/ flying colors. I know they wouldn't catch some issues that a vision therapist might see, though.

[Mandamom]

Thanks, Mandamom. He was reading Tornado to me tonight (RL 3.1) and the words are not difficult for him, but he just makes all those little word errors. Do I count those little word errors or do I want more challenging text? am I making sense? LOL!

 

My guess is that you can go a little bit more challenging (maybe closer to R.L. 4). The first time he reads it mark each and every single error (big and small) that he makes. After that read it daily (or more) with him and it gets retired when he reads it perfectly. My guess it you might have to stick at that level for 2 or 3 books and then you can slowly go up as he gets more fluent.

[Mom in High Heels]

This is a HUGE dyslexic tendency! We just went through Davis dyslexia therapy and it was a big eye opener for me. You might want to read The Gift of Dyslexia by Ron Davis.

[siloam]

I'm feeling really frustrated about this tonight.

I need to know if this is a serious concern or something I can just let go of.

My 9 yo son constantly skips words or inserts whatever he chooses for them, mostly little words. i.e. It says "in" and he reads "at" or skips it completely. It is driving me crazy! If it is a serious concern, how can I break him of it? We have read through Reading Pathways. It helped some with bigger words. He will take the time now to break the word apart and sound it out (well if I am sitting with him.) He just has too many errors in his reading.

insight?

 

Any dyslexia in the family? I do it to this day, and I am dyslexic, my kids do it too. I really don't know of any way to fix it. Most of the time it doesn't change the meaning of the passage, so we just move on in life. :D

 

Heather

[khall]

Look up convergence insufficiency disorder. It's an eye disorder that causes blurred or double vision while doing close work (like reading). Most eye exams won't check for it and kids can test at 20/20 vision but still have this problem. Symptoms are similar to dyslexia, such as being able to read multisyllabic words but skipping or misreading small words. Other symptoms would be very slow reading and tiring easily during reading.

 

Good luck!

[fenni]

Thanks, everyone, no dyslexia in the family that I am aware of. I have put in for the recommended book at the library, though.

 

His eye exam was w/ my other son's pediatric ophthalmologist so I am pretty confident in it. I'll see what the dyslexia book leads me to think about him, try the repeated readings recommended earlier in this thread, and see if there is any improvement. I will also read about convergence insufficiency disorder.

 

I really appreciate these responses!

[siloam]

Thanks, everyone, no dyslexia in the family that I am aware of. I have put in for the recommended book at the library, though.

 

His eye exam was w/ my other son's pediatric ophthalmologist so I am pretty confident in it. I'll see what the dyslexia book leads me to think about him, try the repeated readings recommended earlier in this thread, and see if there is any improvement. I will also read about convergence insufficiency disorder.

 

I really appreciate these responses!

If it was dyslexia, at this age, you would be seeing other signs as well not just in reading. Here is a good list of symptoms. Not every child will have every symptom, but they will have groups of them. My oldest didn't have the reading problems but she has most of the math problems and some of the handwriting issues.

 

BTW my 2nd dd in particular did go to a developmental optometrist to see if she had eye problems. She wasn't diagnosed with any specific problem, but they still wanted to do therapy because of her dyslexic issues. 5 months later she had no improvement. There are separate issues, but their symptoms overlap, which make it a process of trial and error to figure out what issue your child is having.

 

There is a good chance your ophthalmologist did not do the type of evaluation needed. The medical field has yet to accept VT, because there are no independent studies supporting it yet. There also some controversy about if it would be better just to let the eyes develop at their own pace. All I know is I had a friend with a child who had daily/weekly migraines. Turns out he had serious focus problems, took several seconds to see each letter. VT cured his focus problems, but after that they figure out he was also dyslexic. The VT did cure his migraines.

 

The best example I can give you of the difference is an example in my own life. I am diagnosed visual dyslexic. Basically people normally see all colors at the same speed and my brain processes them at different speeds. Generally I use filter to read with, so everything I read is seen through the same color, processed at the same speed. The other day I was checking out Latin programs, and one was computer based. The sample had a black back ground with white letters, which I couldn't read at all. The letters were washing out where they were thin and were double where there were thick. You would think that is a vision problem, but there was one word I could read on the screen. I use filters that produce a lavender color, and there was one word in red (same color family) that said continue. I could read it perfectly. My problems are not vision based or I wouldn't have been able to even read the single word. they are a processing issue after my eyes take in the image.

 

Heather

[fenni]

Well he does still have issues w/ b/d and left/right, so this dyslexia thing may not be too far-fetched. I also really believe that he memorizes the shape of words. I will read up on the dyslexia.

 

I'm a bit familiar w/ development optometrists and VT. Our 2nd son has strabismus and we extensively researched that road for him. He had an evaluation and they wanted him to do VT, but in our research we found VT wasn't very effective for his type of strabismus (this according to the dev. optometrists themselves.) So I will keep the dev. optom. in mind but I'd rather start with reading The Gift of Dyslexia because it is free at my library! LOL Thanks!

 

ETA: He definitely has several in the reading and directionality boxes. I'm not real sure on the spelling because we haven't worked on spelling much.

Edited August 5, 2010 by fenni

[SailorMom]

My dyslexic DS still does this- he reads very well and above grade level, but still messes up the little words far more than the bigger ones. I think he has memorized many word shapes as well - and some are very similar. That happens to be pretty much how I read (never learned phonics), so I can kinda tell he's doing it.

 

There are all sorts of levels of dyslexia - possibly he just has a, well, light version :D

 

A few other easy indicators that he may or may not do - but they can be something to watch for:

Can he tell time on a regular clock?

Can he tie his shoes well?

Reversals in numbers or letters?

Sometimes mixing up what symbol he is looking at in math (+ confused for x, - confused for +, and so on)

[fenni]

Can he tell time on a regular clock? gets confused

Can he tie his shoes well? no, hates doing it, and leaves his shoes tied all the time because of it

Reversals in numbers or letters? he struggled with this for a long time. I have felt like he was getting better, but for all I know he is looking for an example when he is confused. Compensating so that I don't ask him to erase and re-write it.

Sometimes mixing up what symbol he is looking at in math (+ confused for x, - confused for +, and so on) yes

 

Okay, so now I'm just feeling sad and a little jerky. If this is the case, and it is looking like it is, I have been so hard on him for some things he couldn't fix. So I'll read The Gift of Dyslexia. Will that tell me where to go next?

[ElizabethB]

I would try adding in some nonsense words and oral spelling.

 

Also, the cheapest OG book you can get is Recipe for Reading by Traub and Bloom, $25 for everything you need to make your own OG reading program.

:grouphug:

[siloam]

The Gift of Dyslexia is a good starting point, but it really covers one form of dyslexia. Their reading method is also more of a whole word method, which has been proven to not be the best method for reading. There is still a lot of good information in it.

 

For reading issues Orton/Gillingham methods have been proven to work with many different dyslexia types by independent researchers. Methods like Davis method (Gift of Dyslexia) and Sequential Spelling will site numbers of successful readers/spellers, but those are not independent numbers, they are in house.

 

Orton/Gillingham (o/g) work on using multiple senses, because the brain stores each sense in a different place, thus if they have any recall problems, hopefully one of the alternative senses pathways can be accessed. O/g methods are also incremental. Generally dyslexics are VSL learners, they need to see the big picture, then start at the beginning and do one thing to mastery, with lots of review as you move forward, this is what I mean by incremental. O/g methods use controlled readers, which means the child does not read any word in their readers unless they have been directly taught that word. Cuts down on their frustration level till they have completed their instruction. O/g methods also work with nonsense words, as stated by ElizabethB. Dyslexic children are great at guessing what a word is by either context or by the general shape of the word. This is part of why the child will switch a, the; him, his; they; them. They aren't reading each word, they are reading the main words and filling in on their own based on context. That is also why they will being to read a word like bent and read bend. They were looking at the general shape of the word instead of really reading it. Nonsense words makes the child stop and really read what is before them, it makes them learn the rules like it or not. :D Because they have to apply it to groups of letters that make no sense. Once they demonstrate mastery of the rule then you start to use real words. By then the habit of using the rule rather than the coping techniques is in place.

 

The first thing I would do, in your shoes, is see if you ds can pass this test on the Barton Reading site. Barton is an o/g program, one of many, but they have this really great screening for everyone to use. If your ds can pass the 3rd section in particular then that is one bar passed, continue with reading instruction, preferably with an o/g program (Barton Reading, Wilson Reading, Preventing Academic Failure, Seeing Stars, Sonday Reading System, S.P.I.R.E, Horrizons Reading-the in person stuff not the computer or Recipe for Reading for a do it yourself program.) If your ds can't pass that last section than you really need LiPS. LiPS works on how words feel, sound and look when spoken, focusing on the feeling for children who can't hear them as well as they need to. It teaches them to use their other senses to compensate for their weakness, so they can learn to read and spell well.

 

Another gap with poor spellers and children who can't do math in their minds is the ability to see words/quantities or numbers in their minds. Often (but not always) dyslexic children only see pictures, like a movie. Seeing Stars works on developing the ability to see letters and words in the mind for spelling and reading (building visual memory). On Cloud Nine works on seeing quantities and numbers for mental math and memorization of math facts. (Both programs are at the same link as LiPS-though with these two you can often just buy the teacher manuals and use them with other spelling/math programs).

 

Some dyslexic children have a hard time keeping the details in their mind, even if they do see in pictures, so Visualizing and Verbalizing helps with that (Also at the same site).

 

Once you know all those foundational pieces are in place then you just move forward. Sometimes it is slow and takes a lot of backing up to reinforce/review concepts, but dyslexics can be just as successful as other people, they just often have to work a little harder at it.

 

By the way feel free to ask questions, I put up a LOT of info here, but tried to keep the explanations to a minimum so that the post wasn't a mile long.

 

And (((Hugs))), we all make mistakes, and you did so unknowingly. Now that you know is when it really counts.

 

Just keep swimming....

 

Heather

[fenni]

Where do you all get your nonsense words? I need something open and go, or something I can print off.

 

What do others like for fluency practice? I have the McGuffey's, but I don't know if I like them.

[ElizabethB]

Where do you all get your nonsense words? I need something open and go, or something I can print off.

 

 

My game makes real and nonsense words and is a fun review:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

If you need more nonsense words, you can just make up your own or use James Williams' book "We All Can Read, 3rd Grade to Adult," it is full of nonsense words.

 

http://weallcanread.com/3-Adult-Product-1.html

 

My free online phonics lessons also have some nonsense words in them and are designed for older remedial children.

 

I find that fluency comes when the code is over-learned.

[AngelaNYC]

Fenni, I could have written your post. My 9y/o ds sounds exactly like yours. After getting frustrated and wondering why he kept hitting the same stumbling blocks, I've come to the conclusion he is mildly dyslexic as well. This was about a year ago. We've been doing LOTS of reading and writing all year (spelling words on a dry-erase board, word wall, reading aloud, etc) and he has made tremendous improvements. He still leaves out or misreads the small words, doesn't always see the punctuation, will sometimes just say a word that starts with the same letter as the one on the page, or will just put his own words in, but these are not as often as they were last year.

 

Thank you for this thread. I haven't tried the nonsense word thing yet and I read about using a colored plastic filter over the pages (it's still a lot of effort for ds to read and after about 10 minutes, his eyes get tired - I heard the colored filter reduces eye strain).

 

Ds get the + and x symbols mixed up, too. b and d are still backwards (and 9 and p and q and sometimes 3 and j). Was is saw, wild is wide. He can read the word yesterday, shouldn't and tarantula but gets stuck on is and what. What, went, & want all look the same. But he's a whiz at math, telling time, and has been tying his shoes correctly and with double-knots since he was 3 1/2. The Gift of Dyslexia is the book resonating with me now (as far as describing the symptoms). I found the Sally Shaywitz book good, but not great. Creating my own program for him using various methods seems to be working well. The frequency of reading mistakes are more than 50% less in only a year. I worry about him hitting another plateau.

 

Please keep us updated on what works for you and ds. And I'd love to hear more input from those who have BTDT.