The "problem" with independent learning...

[lotsofpumpkins]

I was inspired somewhat by the Robinson Curriculum, so I made some changes for our new school year, which started in early June. My 2nd and 3rd graders now have a list of book choices for history and science. They each picked books to read, and each day they read silently from their selected books (plus they have literature that I pick for them). I wanted them to "learn how to learn" (instead of being spoon-fed information). My 3rd grader is doing great with this new system, as far as I can tell. She's a great reader and is also able to keep up with her reading logs herself.

 

I am having some second thoughts about how we are doing things, however:

1. Even though my 3rd grader is a great reader, when I've asked her questions about what she read, sometimes she has trouble remembering, even a few minutes later. For example, today she read about the man who inspired Daniel Defoe to write Robinson Crusoe. I asked her who Daniel Defoe was, and she couldn't tell me. I made her go back and read that section again, and she figured out who everyone was.

2. My 2nd grader still struggles a bit with his reading. I think that sometimes he is working so hard on figuring out all of the words that he is not able to actually comprehend it as a whole. All of this reading is great practice for him, but as far as teaching him history and science, I'm not sure it's actually working.

3. By having my 2nd and 3rd graders do their history and science reading independently, that leaves my Kindergartener out. On most days the K'er only does phonics and 1 or 2 other workbooks (math, R&S ABC workbooks, handwriting, etc). We do storytime all together, and Bible, but I kind of wish that we were all having fun with science and history together. We do have Apologia Astronomy, but only get to it 1 or 2 days a week lately.

4. The "fun stuff", like Astronomy, has been pushed to the back burner lately. The main concern has been checking off all the little boxes on the checklists I made them.

5. I enjoy learning right along with the children. When they are reading silently, I feel like I'm missing out!

 

I don't want to scrap the "read real books for history and science" idea altogether though. We have some great books here. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and make Astronomy our primary science (plus we have Apologia Botany here, though I've also considered God's Design Science). Then for history, I have the Pratt books I could read aloud. Then I could also still require the 2nd and 3rd graders to spend a certain amount of time doing silent reading, but maybe a bit less than they do now, since they'd be spending more time doing these subjects with everyone.

 

One of my main motivations for getting them working independently in the first place is the chaos that always seems to happen when I try to read aloud. The oldest 3 do fine, but I also have a 3.5yo and a 22-month-old. When we do storytime they do a pretty good job of sitting still and listening. That's not always the case when we try to do astronomy lately.

 

Sorry that got long. Just trying to figure out what direction to go in.

[Medieval Mom]

My advice is to:

 

Do history and science together, so you can learn along with them and they enjoy those subjects together. You'll be able to better gauge what they are learning, too. If read-alouds are chaotic right now, play an audiobook (available free at LIBRIVOX and at your library).

 

Keep the silent reading, but not necessarily of history and science texts, or perhaps easier titles than what you had been assigning. Or let them have the harder books, if they love them, but don't require too much in the way of narration of these particular titles. It's amazing what children absorb without being adequately able to discuss it. Until their skills in reading, comphrension, and narrating improve, keep most of the independent reading interesting enough that they run in to tell you what they've read because they are so excited!

 

Work on narration, modeling for them yourself, then asking it of what you are reading aloud together daily. Ask them casually about what they are reading, too, to get into the habit of discussing books well. Be interested, as if you'd like to read the book, too, and would love to hear more about it! :)

 

We did a similar stint of this when we had just moved and I was exhausted and busy with the newborn. DS loved it, because he is a genuine bookworm:) Like you, I missed reading everything along with him; so I know how you feel.

 

(FWIW, We're now doing AO, with a mix of books read aloud and read independently. But I only have 2 to worry about.)

HTH! :)

Edited July 9, 2010 by Medieval Mom

[Katie.Louise]

I agree with Medieval Mom.

 

I read the spines aloud, and then have them indep. read historical fiction, biographies, or other interesting informational books at their individual levels. I am going to use the pratt books, maybe some of SOTW, with my 2nd and 5th grade dds this year as my spine(s).

 

Same thing with science.

HTH,

Katie

[LindaOz]

I'm a big fan of independent learning, and with the ages I have now it doesn't always work to have everyone together anyway. So what we do is have everyone doing their own study, but at the same time have a family study going on. We don't do the family study every day, but it is something that allows us to all be on the same page in some area. For us, at the moment, our family study is MOH 1. The older four kids are also doing an Australian history study, while the younger two are doing separate SL cores.

[Evergreen Academy]

You've gotten great advice already, so I haven't much to add, but will share one other thing that's helped us. My ds9 also is a great reader, but with very poor recall skills. It is partly a learning style - he's a stronger auditory learner - and when we had his vision tested, we learned it's also a vision problem. He has trouble focusing, and thus has a harder time retaining information; we're hoping vision therapy will help. In the meantime, we've found CLE's reading program to be a great benefit. I am not a workbook lover and prefer real books, but these surprised me. The stories are short but not cutesy, and the workbook pages are meaningful and don't seem like busywork. Three of my boys have benefited from these greatly, even though they all have varying learning styles, and they can all work independently in them.

Blessings,

Aimee

mom to 6 great kids ages7-19, schooling grades 2, 4, 4 and 7, with 2 in college now!

[Medieval Mom]

You've gotten great advice already, so I haven't much to add, but will share one other thing that's helped us. My ds9 also is a great reader, but with very poor recall skills. It is partly a learning style - he's a stronger auditory learner - and when we had his vision tested, we learned it's also a vision problem. He has trouble focusing, and thus has a harder time retaining information; we're hoping vision therapy will help. In the meantime, we've found CLE's reading program to be a great benefit. I am not a workbook lover and prefer real books, but these surprised me. The stories are short but not cutesy, and the workbook pages are meaningful and don't seem like busywork. Three of my boys have benefited from these greatly, even though they all have varying learning styles, and they can all work independently in them.

Blessings,

Aimee

mom to 6 great kids ages7-19, schooling grades 2, 4, 4 and 7, with 2 in college now!

 

We also love CLE reading! :)

[dragons in the flower bed]

I think that sometimes he is working so hard on figuring out all of the words that he is not able to actually comprehend it as a whole. All of this reading is great practice for him, but as far as teaching him history and science, I'm not sure it's actually working.

 

That is exactly why Joyce Herzog recommends using books that are below your child's reading level when teaching content areas.

[lotsofpumpkins]

That is exactly why Joyce Herzog recommends using books that are below your child's reading level when teaching content areas.

 

That's what I'm trying to do, but even some of the leveled readers have words thrown in that he doesn't know. Plus, the names of people and places throw him for a loop (like the Indian names in The First Thanksgiving, etc). I think by the time he figures out the name (whether by sounding it out or by asking me) he's forgotten the other words in the sentence. I know this is just a temporary problem. He's making great progress with his reading.

[lotsofpumpkins]

We also love CLE reading! :)

 

I have considered getting this several times, because I love CLE math. I've hesitated because I didn't know if I should add another consumable program with so many children; the cost adds up, even though it's a very affordable program. Plus, I don't like how CLE uses different diacritical markings than R&S (which we use for phonics and 1st grade reading). So, I'd have to figure out at which grade level it'd be easy enough to use CLE reading and just ignore any diacritical markings that come up.

[Medieval Mom]

I have considered getting this several times, because I love CLE math. I've hesitated because I didn't know if I should add another consumable program with so many children; the cost adds up, even though it's a very affordable program. Plus, I don't like how CLE uses different diacritical markings than R&S (which we use for phonics and 1st grade reading). So, I'd have to figure out at which grade level it'd be easy enough to use CLE reading and just ignore any diacritical markings that come up.

 

You could work around the consumable issue by have your dc do the work orally if your have time. Any written responses in sentence form could be written on separate paper, marke rboard, slate, whatever. Alternatively, I know a woman who puts all those pages into clear plastic page protectors and has her dc use a marker board marker. She has 6 children; she says that she does this with all the curr. she can!

 

You could even skip the phonics sections, if it bothers you. (The phonics often do bother me, since I prefer R&S simpler way, or IPA. I often either skip those sections, work through them orally with ds, or make my own notes. We have some questions/sections we skip because our beliefs are different, too, FWIW. Still, it's one of ds's favorite subjects. Who would have guessed? :confused: ;) HE is not hung up on the phonetical markings.)

 

Another option is to just use the hardcover readers and skip the workbooks altogether.

 

Or use McGuffey's eclectic readers :) I got my set of Primer - 6th for about $35! The markings there are pretty standard.

 

Now, I'm not trying to convince you to use CLE Reading. I promise! I'm not entirely sold that it is NECESSARY at all. ;) I'm just sharing how others have gotten around the issues of being a consumable worktext format and the phonetical markings, IF YOU WANT TO. :)

 

P.S. For what it's worth, *my* old Webster's Elementary Dictionary from my childhood (ages and ages ago!), uses the exact markings that CLE Reading uses! Hah! When I first got the CLE Reading in the mail, I was so heated up and mad about the phonics that I was packing it up to return it. I was explaining to my husband my irritated disappointment in their ERRORS, that I pulled out my yellow dictionary to show him what I meant. Imagine my embarrassment! Hah! I have six dictionaries in the house. Each of them use a different phonetic system. Urgh! :001_huh: I still love IPA :)

Edited July 10, 2010 by Medieval Mom

[lotsofpumpkins]

You could work around the consumable issue by have your dc do the work orally if your have time. Any written responses in sentence form could be written on separate paper, marke rboard, slate, whatever. Alternatively, I know a woman who puts all those pages into clear plastic page protectors and has her dc use a marker board marker. She has 6 children; she says that she does this with all the curr. she can!

 

You could even skip the phonics sections, if it bothers you. (The phonics often do bother me, since I prefer R&S simpler way, or IPA. I often either skip those sections, work through them orally with ds, or make my own notes. We have some questions/sections we skip because our beliefs are different, too, FWIW. Still, it's one of ds's favorite subjects. Who would have guessed? :confused: ;) HE is not hung up on the phonetical markings.)

 

Another option is to just use the hardcover readers and skip the workbooks altogether.

 

Or use McGuffey's eclectic readers :) I got my set of Primer - 6th for about $35! The markings there are pretty standard.

 

Now, I'm not trying to convince you to use CLE Reading. I promise! I'm not entirely sold that it is NECESSARY at all. ;) I'm just sharing how others have gotten around the issues of being a consumable worktext format and the phonetical markings, IF YOU WANT TO. :)

 

P.S. For what it's worth, *my* old Webster's Elementary Dictionary from my childhood (ages and ages ago!), uses the exact markings that CLE Reading uses! Hah! When I first got the CLE Reading in the mail, I was so heated up and mad about the phonics that I was packing it up to return it. I was explaining to my husband my irritated disappointment in their ERRORS, that I pulled out my yellow dictionary to show him what I meant. Imagine my embarrassment! Hah! I have six dictionaries in the house. Each of them use a different phonetic system. Urgh! :001_huh: I still love IPA :)

 

Thanks for the advice! Glad to hear I'm not alone in my opinions on CLE markings. :)

[EKS]

5. I enjoy learning right along with the children. When they are reading silently, I feel like I'm missing out!

 

 

 

To me, this is huge. Your children have plenty of time to become independent learners. Enjoy your time with them now.

[MamaMamaMama!!]

I have this problem with total independent learning as well! Because one of the reasons I HS is to develope familial relationship. And if Im not really involved in a good portion of school and they arent involved in discussion studies together (history, science, art music ect) then we arent accomplishing that goal. I have my kids do most of the 3r's independently with a short tutor session daily, we do the rest together and have a silent reading HOUR daily.