Can you tell me more about Russian Math?

[Country Girl]

Based on the recommendations in my other thread, I'm interested in hearing more about Mathematics 6 (Russian Math). First I'd like to know more about the appeal of this program? I know that the Singapore math program became popular (in part) based on the reputation of Singapore's math rankings. Russia doesn't seem to have this same reputation... so why the high praises for this program? I am not being critical.... I just really don't know and am not a great judge of these types of things. Plus, my dh is going to want a bit more to go on than "the wonderful ladies on the WTM board recommended it":D.

 

Secondly, I've looked at their website but their really isn't much info.... only a brief sample. Is the sample format the same as the actual book? Is there an extra set of practice problems or all of the practice problems like those imbedded within the text as shown in the sample? Looking at the TOC, it looks like there are review pages, independent assignments, and check your understanding.... what exactly are all of those things? How do you schedule it? Is this a full year curriculum or only a supplemental program?

 

I'm looking into this program to use between last year's BJU 5/LOF Fractions/LOF Decimals and a future pre-algebra program (or maybe right into algebra if this prepares ds). I think ds needs a year of solidifying basic math as well as more exposure and practice with negatives, order of operations, etc. before pre-alg (or Alg) and was thinking this could be good. I like the looks of the depth of the questions asked on the sample but am a bit leery in knowing if ds is ready for it since I saw mentioned in some old threads that this program is harder than SM 6a/b.

 

Thanks!

[nmoira]

I know that the Singapore math program became popular (in part) based on the reputation of Singapore's math rankings. Russia doesn't seem to have this same reputation... so why the high praises for this program?

Singapore isn't noted for its mathematicians, Russia is. ;)

 

Here's something I posted previously:

 

This is an excellent choice for a child not ready to move into algebra, or as a transition from Primary Maths to an traditional language and logic based math program. Mathematics 6 has a more "mathy" feel than Singapore in terms of formal language and approach. It is elegant and logical, language based but not wordy. While Singapore excels conceptually, as it progresses through the primary sequence, I occasionally find the "simplified" visual explanations a bit tortured. An example is PM's approach to division by fractions. Compare this to the approach in Mathematics 6, which quickly and without fuss develops a simple proof showing that multiplying by the reciprocal is the same as dividing by a fraction.

 

(5/6)x = (2/3)

(5/6)/(5/6) x= (2/3) / (5/6)

x= (2/3) / (5/6)

 

(5/6) x = (2/3)

(6/5) * (5/6)x = (2/3) * (6/5)

x = (2/3) * (6/5)

 

(2/3) / (5/6) = (2/3) * (6/5)

 

Secondly, I've looked at their website but their really isn't much info.... only a brief sample. Is the sample format the same as the actual book?

I'd have chosen different sample material. Each chapter section begins with a lesson, which typically wraps up by summing up the concept in relatively formal language.

 

Is there an extra set of practice problems or all of the practice problems like those imbedded within the text as shown in the sample?

For each chapter section, there are two levels of problems, and a few starred "extra" challenging problems.

 

Looking at the TOC, it looks like there are review pages, independent assignments, and check your understanding.... what exactly are all of those things? How do you schedule it? Is this a full year curriculum or only a supplemental program?

It's a full curriculum, and IMHO everything you'd need for pre-algebra.

 

I like the looks of the depth of the questions asked on the sample but am a bit leery in knowing if ds is ready for it since I saw mentioned in some old threads that this program is harder than SM 6a/b.

It's a different, mathier approach than Primary Math. Some kids might find it more accessible.

[mcconnellboys]

I will just add that there are also reviews at the end of some chapters. All answers to problems are available online.

[nmoira]

 

I will just add that there are also reviews at the end of some chapters. All answers to problems are available online.

Currently there are answers only for the first three chapters. Supposedly the others will be added when the new edition is published.

[fractalgal]

Based on the recommendations in my other thread, I'm interested in hearing more about Mathematics 6 (Russian Math). First I'd like to know more about the appeal of this program? I know that the Singapore math program became popular (in part) based on the reputation of Singapore's math rankings. Russia doesn't seem to have this same reputation... so why the high praises for this program? I am not being critical.... I just really don't know and am not a great judge of these types of things. Plus, my dh is going to want a bit more to go on than "the wonderful ladies on the WTM board recommended it":D.

 

Secondly, I've looked at their website but their really isn't much info.... only a brief sample. Is the sample format the same as the actual book? Is there an extra set of practice problems or all of the practice problems like those imbedded within the text as shown in the sample? Looking at the TOC, it looks like there are review pages, independent assignments, and check your understanding.... what exactly are all of those things? How do you schedule it? Is this a full year curriculum or only a supplemental program?

 

I'm looking into this program to use between last year's BJU 5/LOF Fractions/LOF Decimals and a future pre-algebra program (or maybe right into algebra if this prepares ds). I think ds needs a year of solidifying basic math as well as more exposure and practice with negatives, order of operations, etc. before pre-alg (or Alg) and was thinking this could be good. I like the looks of the depth of the questions asked on the sample but am a bit leery in knowing if ds is ready for it since I saw mentioned in some old threads that this program is harder than SM 6a/b.

 

Thanks!

 

The appeal to me is that Russian Math 6 is a more formal math program than Singapore is. It has a different tone. Singapore math leaves out more of the formal definitions and keeps things more simply explained. I liked the more formal tone and my daughter had mixed feelings about it. ;)

 

My daughter went into RM6 after Singapore 5. I would normally not recommend skipping Singapore 6, but this particular child is exceptionally good at math.

 

According to my daughter, the only real downside to RM6 was that she thought in parts that it made learning concepts "more complicated than it needed to be". [she made that comment in the adding/subtracting fractions section.] I think this is really due to the more formal tone of the book. She did very well with the book, however.

 

RM6 (like SM IP and CWP) also has very good [in-depth] word problems and even asks students to come up with their own problems to solve which is something new and interesting.

 

As a PP said, there is only an answer key (no solution key) for the first three chapters posted at the Perpendicular Press website, but there are selected other answers in the back. Supposedly there will be answers for the rest or the new addition by the end of the summer. I ended up making my own solution manual for the B section (more challenging) problems because I plan to use this book with my other children eventually and it will save me time.

 

Good Luck. :)

[Country Girl]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm still seriously considering this program. I think my son would like the more "formal" math tone of the book. One of his complaints about BJU was that it is too babyish (and when I showed him samples of PM he absolutely hated them). I realize that those programs aren't actually babyish but perceptions of a 9yo can go a long way in predicting the success (or rather failure) of a program;).

[Storm Bay]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm still seriously considering this program. I think my son would like the more "formal" math tone of the book. One of his complaints about BJU was that it is too babyish (and when I showed him samples of PM he absolutely hated them). I realize that those programs aren't actually babyish but perceptions of a 9yo can go a long way in predicting the success (or rather failure) of a program;).

 

 

It is a fabulous book. Others have given specifics. One of the many things I liked about it is that at times a student is given some information and has to design their own problem. This isn't a word problem where a student figures out steps to find requested answer (although there problems like that in the book,) but first determining what kind of answer they are looking for & then determining how to solve it.

 

If we want to go by test results, we look to places like Singapore. The best part about Singapore math is the heuristic aspect, IMO. If we want to go by who is producing fabulous mathematicians, Russia is one country I'd look to. Naturally, Russia has a large population, but the Russian 6 text (which served as pre-Algebra here) is a top text there & won an award (I think that info is on the website, but, if not, it's in my copy of the first edition in English for which I have 4 chapers of answers.) In high school at the Algebra level, I'd look to the math that was used when the US was producing a lot of mathematicians--new math at its best by Dolciani, or go with something like Gelfand's. I think, though, that at least one of the author of Gelfand's Algebra is/was a Russian ex-patriot.

 

My middle dd, who did the Russian math book, gave it high praise when she was finished. She is a highly vs learner, and it helped her to learn the linguistic aspects of math among other things. I haven't seen the newer edition, but in the book there are a lot of practise problems.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Karin

[Crimson Wife]

The appeal to me is that Russian Math 6 is a more formal math program than Singapore is. It has a different tone. Singapore math leaves out more of the formal definitions and keeps things more simply explained. I liked the more formal tone and my daughter had mixed feelings about it. ;)

 

Can someone please explain to me the reasoning why including the formal math proofs and such is important? This is something I've never really understood. In my high school math classes I found it exceedingly dull and frankly had the attitude that it was a waste of time.

 

If a student isn't going to be a math major, how important is it really? :confused:

[fractalgal]

Can someone please explain to me the reasoning why including the formal math proofs and such is important? This is something I've never really understood. In my high school math classes I found it exceedingly dull and frankly had the attitude that it was a waste of time.

 

If a student isn't going to be a math major, how important is it really? :confused:

 

Books that have formal definitions help set the stage to prove mathematical statements are true. If something can be proven with mathematics, it must hold in all cases. From these mathematical "truths" we can build up other mathematical statements which hold true in all cases which are very useful.

 

Here is an article that may be helpful:

 

WHAT ARE MATHEMATICAL PROOFS AND WHY

THEY ARE IMPORTANT?

 

http://www.math.uconn.edu/~hurley/math315/proofgoldberger.pdf

[Country Girl]

It is a fabulous book. Others have given specifics. One of the many things I liked about it is that at times a student is given some information and has to design their own problem. This isn't a word problem where a student figures out steps to find requested answer (although there problems like that in the book,) but first determining what kind of answer they are looking for & then determining how to solve it.

 

If we want to go by test results, we look to places like Singapore. The best part about Singapore math is the heuristic aspect, IMO. If we want to go by who is producing fabulous mathematicians, Russia is one country I'd look to. Naturally, Russia has a large population, but the Russian 6 text (which served as pre-Algebra here) is a top text there & won an award (I think that info is on the website, but, if not, it's in my copy of the first edition in English for which I have 4 chapers of answers.) In high school at the Algebra level, I'd look to the math that was used when the US was producing a lot of mathematicians--new math at its best by Dolciani, or go with something like Gelfand's. I think, though, that at least one of the author of Gelfand's Algebra is/was a Russian ex-patriot.

 

My middle dd, who did the Russian math book, gave it high praise when she was finished. She is a highly vs learner, and it helped her to learn the linguistic aspects of math among other things. I haven't seen the newer edition, but in the book there are a lot of practise problems.

 

Thanks Karin! I appreciate the extra info on the reputation of the program. I don't think I noticed the info about winning the top text award, so thanks for including that too. I also appreciate the ideas on where to go after the text if we decide to use it.

[SnegurochkaL]

Hi, I checked website at http://www.perpendicularpress.com/math6.html

and should say that I am not familiar with this particular book. I studied math in Russia and want to stress that Algebra started in 6/7 Grade along with Geometry(Euclid's). It is very interesting that this book( Math 6) is introducing a calculator usage in 6 grade. I wasn't allowed to use a calculator until I was doing pre-calculus (9th grade). We used sliding rulers to find logarithms. This math book is based on 1995 Russian edition when math program hasn't changed that much.

If someone is looking for good Geometry textbook I will recommend Kiselyov Geometry which had been translated into English and available from amazon or Singaporemath websites. I don't think other Kiselyov books had been translated from Russian.

 

P.S. I hated learning proofs for either Algebra nor Geometry but it was required and was useful later for problem solving. We had a lot of oral exams in Russia including math, where you have 2 proofs to do and 2 problems to solve. If you don't know it you will fail the exam or get not more than C- which is almost "Fail".

[nmoira]

SneguochkaL, thanks for posting. :)

 

It is very interesting that this book( Math 6) is introducing a calculator usage in 6 grade. I wasn't allowed to use a calculator until I was doing pre-calculus (9th grade).

There is very little calculator use.

 

Unfortunately, there is little in English about Nurk and Telgaa. Their publisher for math texts is Drofa, you may have more luck there. Here's a short obituary for Telgmaa written by Nurk.

[fractalgal]

Hi, I checked website at http://www.perpendicularpress.com/math6.html

and should say that I am not familiar with this particular book. I studied math in Russia and want to stress that Algebra started in 6/7 Grade along with Geometry(Euclid's). It is very interesting that this book( Math 6) is introducing a calculator usage in 6 grade. I wasn't allowed to use a calculator until I was doing pre-calculus (9th grade). We used sliding rulers to find logarithms. This math book is based on 1995 Russian edition when math program hasn't changed that much.

If someone is looking for good Geometry textbook I will recommend Kiselyov Geometry which had been translated into English and available from amazon or Singaporemath websites. I don't think other Kiselyov books had been translated from Russian.

 

P.S. I hated learning proofs for either Algebra nor Geometry but it was required and was useful later for problem solving. We had a lot of oral exams in Russia including math, where you have 2 proofs to do and 2 problems to solve. If you don't know it you will fail the exam or get not more than C- which is almost "Fail".

 

Your description of math tests in Russia sounds similar to the set up for a typical graduate level math class exam at a university in America. In my Real Analysis course, which was the first course I took at that level, on the first test there were 5 questions and they were all proofs to be proven. You had to be able to prove them to get any credit for them, although not orally.

 

I agree with the Kiselev's Geometry books [i-Planimetry and II-Stereometry] as a supplemental geometry recommendation. These books use formal math definitions, language, and there examples of proofs throughout. The content of the books makes logical sense when read carefully. I would have a blank piece of paper handy to make notes and sketches to fully understand while reading. I purchased mine here: http://www.sumizdat.org/

[Storm Bay]

Hi, I checked website at http://www.perpendicularpress.com/math6.html

and should say that I am not familiar with this particular book. I studied math in Russia and want to stress that Algebra started in 6/7 Grade along with Geometry(Euclid's). It is very interesting that this book( Math 6) is introducing a calculator usage in 6 grade. I wasn't allowed to use a calculator until I was doing pre-calculus (9th grade).

 

This is why we used this book for pre-Algebra. I agree, there is very little calculator work. My dc are not allowed to use calculators as a rule before Calculus. I did allow one dd to use one for a while to find irrational square roots when she had a lot of problems to do, but only after she could do it well herself. In the end, she preferred to find the square roots herself rather than with the calculator because she would take the time to get more significant digits.

 

When I went to high school no one was allowed to use a calculator on any exams in high school because they were still new and were very expensive.

[SnegurochkaL]

Thank you for the link about publisher. Since the author was an Estonian I wasn't familiar with his work.

 

I was describing my University entrance exam when I was trying to "get in" to college. Most middle/high schools had graduation math exams ( written and orals).

 

I think AoPS books are decent so I will be using them along with some Russian mathbooks for school with extended learning of math (usually for math gifted kids). My school math problem didn't pay enough attention to the Theory of Probability and few other aspects of math.

 

P.S. Kiselyov books were not my textbooks at school. We used more modern authors. Kiselyov books are the classics of Russian math school. I used Atanasyan " Geometry" and "Algebra" by Alimov textbooks in middle/high school.