Cheaper than Barton?

[Verity]

So I took the plunge and watched the video and did the evaluation for my son at the Barton website. At 8 years old he is still reversing letters and numbers and is a reluctant reader. I started him with a SL 2nd Grade Int readers pack and he is doing better. I know he is capable but have been considering what else I can do to really help him. His spelling and writing abilities are atrocious. I got AAS level 1 but it just didn't click *for me* so I have Phonetic Zoo to start this fall. I've been thinking that maybe he just isn't ready for anything spelling until we can get these reversals under control.

 

On the Barton test he did great on counting words but was clueless when it came to syllables and had some struggles with the sounds (he heard them best from me - when I had him listen to the presenter he was getting alot of the sounds wrong). One of the sounds questions he kept reversing the sounds /l/ /r/...even when I went back after and repeated the sounds to him.

 

Will Barton help him with his writing reversals? And, if so, can anyone recommend a less expensive way to get started with a Orton-Gillingham type program?

 

We use(d) HWT and 100 EZ Lessons (direct instruction) when I was teaching him to read (while taking a college level reading class for my education major). I'm so confused and don't want to miss the opportunity to correct this while he is young.

 

Due to very poor insurance I have some problems with getting more professional evaluations. Shelling out for my older son to get his correct Aspie diagnosis this Sept (we're pretty sure).

 

TIA!

[golfcartmama]

:bigear:

[LizzyBee]

Wilson Reading is cheaper than Barton and is used by many homeschoolers.

 

I've heard that Recipe for Reading is the cheapest OG program, but it's a lot of work for the parent. The manual is $25 and tells you how to teach using OG methods, but you have to write the actual lessons yourself, if I understand correctly.

[VinNY]

While you are waiting ..check out the book Helping Your Child Overcome Learning Disabilities by Jerome Rosner. He has a visual perceptual skills test and an auditory one in there to check whether your child is learning ready. He has included a step by step program to improve your child's visual and auditory skills as well as strategies to help those who have difficulty learning.

[siloam]

So I took the plunge and watched the video and did the evaluation for my son at the Barton website. At 8 years old he is still reversing letters and numbers and is a reluctant reader. I started him with a SL 2nd Grade Int readers pack and he is doing better. I know he is capable but have been considering what else I can do to really help him. His spelling and writing abilities are atrocious. I got AAS level 1 but it just didn't click *for me* so I have Phonetic Zoo to start this fall. I've been thinking that maybe he just isn't ready for anything spelling until we can get these reversals under control.

Honestly I don't think you should wait. I still at times struggle with reversals to this day. It has taken most of my kids 4 years of doing dictation and work with sand to learn to "see" their own errors and self correct. I don't think there is an overnight cure.

 

If it bothers you that much I would recommend you switch to cursive where it is not as much of an issue.

 

I don't know much about Phonics Zoo, but I don't think it is well liked on the reading group I am on.

 

Looking at the samples the first thing I don't care for is the flash cards. They utilize the animal pictures, which is a good memory tool, but often LD kids tend to then become dependent on them. They can't remember the sound of Z unless they picture a zebra in their mind. Instead of having instant recall Z makes the sound /z/ they have to think Z, Zebra, /z/ebra it makes the sound /z/. That slows them down a lot, especially if they are still doing it years later (admittedly not all LD kids will). Developing the directly sound to symbol connection takes longer, but once it is learned the recall is much shorter.

 

I also don't like the use of songs, because with LD kids they usually HAVE to sing the song to remember the material. Again learning a direct connection takes longer, but eliminates the need to sing the song under their breath in order to remember things. I do see it is listed as a reinforcement, not a main part of the program. Personally I wouldn't use it.

 

I do like that it is multi sensory.

 

It is hard to see if it is mastery based or not. Generally dyslexic students need to master one concept at a time. I see multiple concepts in the lesson, but I don't know if they are only their for review and have already been mastered. I would prefer to see only the one concepts and some sort of review after this one has been mastered.

 

There are a tone of worksheets in the program. I like the editing one, but a lot of the rest looks like busy work. Many dyslexic students are also dysgraphic. There is no way I would have any of my kids doing that much writing.

 

BTW I am looking at the spelling product.

 

On the Barton test he did great on counting words but was clueless when it came to syllables and had some struggles with the sounds (he heard them best from me - when I had him listen to the presenter he was getting alot of the sounds wrong). One of the sounds questions he kept reversing the sounds /l/ /r/...even when I went back after and repeated the sounds to him.

 

My ds does this too, particularly /l/ and /r/. If you can swing it I would do LiPS with him. Again it is not cheap, but I have a dd (my 3rd dd, Honey Dew) who could read OK but couldn't spell. She couldn't hear the difference between short i and e. She couldn't hear the blends in words, only the strongest sound. Thus she would spell a word like bent, bit. She would then read bit and know it was wrong but start crying out of frustration because she didn't know how to fix it. She also added /l/ and /r/ to words while she was reading even through they weren't there.

 

LiPS works on how the mouth moves and feels when you are saying the sound. Thus if the child has a processing issue they have to other senses to fall back on, feeling and sight. Honey Dew is now spelling well (still not at grade level), her reading took a leap this year (above grade level), and I attribute most of her success to going through LiPS.

 

If you can't afford the whole package you probably could get buy with just the manual. It wouldn't be ideal, but you will have to make the mouth movements more for him to "see" them vs. having the pictures of the mouth movements. You also might make use of one of the game card sets and let it double for the mouth cards.

 

Will Barton help him with his writing reversals? And, if so, can anyone recommend a less expensive way to get started with a Orton-Gillingham type program?

 

We use(d) HWT and 100 EZ Lessons (direct instruction) when I was teaching him to read (while taking a college level reading class for my education major). I'm so confused and don't want to miss the opportunity to correct this while he is young.

 

Due to very poor insurance I have some problems with getting more professional evaluations. Shelling out for my older son to get his correct Aspie diagnosis this Sept (we're pretty sure).

 

TIA!

Not sure on that one. My ds is still in level 1 which is focused on hearing sounds. They don't do writing at this level. If your ds is reading through I would guess that while Barton would help, it is probably more than you need.

 

AAS would be one of my recommendations. Thus I have to ask what didn't work about it? I know it didn't click with you, but knowing what didn't work might help in finding another program.

 

Other programs I see highly recommended for spelling are How to Teach Spelling and Apples and Pears (Note you have to scroll down a little to get to it).

 

Other possibilities for reading/spelling combined are: Wilson Reading, Sonday Reading System, Preventing Academic Failure, Horizons Reading (not the online stuff, the remedial side), and Seeing Stars.

 

Another question you might want to ask him is if he can see words in his mind. My oldest two spell pretty well, but they can "see" a word in their mind and spell from what they see. Honey Dew and myself do not have that ability, so I am doing Seeing Stars with her, which is specifically designed to develop that ability. I use the Seeing Stars manual with AAS, but there is also a full program.

 

Let me know if you have questions.

 

Heather

Edited June 27, 2010 by siloam

[siloam]

Honestly I don't think you should wait. I still at times struggle with reversals to this day. It has taken most of my kids 4 years of doing dictation and work with sand to learn to "see" their own errors and self correct. I don't think there is an overnight cure.

Oh I use sand letter cards and writing in sand weekly to overcome reversals. Honey Dew was particularly bad with numbers, so I couldn't even revert to cursive. She just finished up a year of it again (generally I do a year on then a year off as we all get really tired of it). I have them trace the cards day 1 (and just one set, numbers, lower case manuscript, or upper case manuscript) then day 2 they do them in sand. Day 3 I start another set and day 4 they do that set in sand. That way they get how the letters are formed in their minds first, then they do it free hand in the sand.

 

When they make errors while writing I generally will just go, "hmmmmmm...." That is clue here that there is an error somewhere. If they don't see it right off I don't leave them hanging. I will either given them the answer outright or take it a step closer, "Do you see a 7 that is written backwards?" My kids start dictation in K and generally I don't start seeing them catch reversal errors till 3rd grade. My 4th grader rarely misses them now and self correct almost every time. I am not sure if that is developmental or if it took them 4 years to learn to see it, or if there is a combo of both going on.

 

Heather

Edited June 27, 2010 by siloam

[mom4him]

I am getting ready to start with Wilson Reading System. It is MUCH cheaper, has very good independent review. I did purchase 2 of the DVDs #2 & 4 and they have helped me understand a bit better how the system works.

[Verity]

 

AAS would be one of my recommendations. Thus I have to ask what didn't work about it? I know it didn't click with you, but knowing what didn't work might help in finding another program.

 

 

Heather,

Thanks for your responses. I know this is an area that you are very active in and have alot of experience. Just for the record I was diagnosed as being dyslexic when I was in kindergarten. To this day I can write in cursive backwards and read upsidedown/backwards without much strain at all. I write lefthanded and do everything else righthanded. So I think I have alot of the dyslexic brain stuff going on. I'm extremely visual...but also have always been a strong, advanced reader and didn't have the fine motor problems that my sons have.

 

Having multiple kids with a variety of special needs (like alot of the parents here) I have to keep juggling top priority. Right now it is planning/saving for my older sons new evaluation and diagnosis. Programs that cost several hundred dollars aren't possible right now - I'm just struggling to be able to afford our curriculum for math, latin and history.

 

Re: AAS I struggled with finding structure for it and knowing when to progress to the next step. I had done alot of this work with my son a few years ago when we started so it was boring for him (and me). It took so much prep to get started (cutting out the little squares, applying the magnetic backs, sorting through the cards) that it was a real letdown when I finally sat down to get started, did Lesson 1 - he missed quite a few of the vowels and then I didn't know what to do next. How many days to keep doing Lesson 1 over and over if he couldnt' remember the sounds? Honestly I was never taught all the sounds that the letters make (I wasn't taught using phonics) so it was confusing and frustrating. Between three kids with delays and special needs and my own health issues it just seemed like it was too much trouble. :(

 

In my situation I'm leaning towards alot of guided instruction that leads me through step by step - this helps to keep me on track while juggling so many balls and dealing with my fibro-fog. I know that intellectually I am capable of planning a whole curriculum and scheduling it to fit my needs while monitoring progress and making adjustments as needed; however, the reality is that I can't get a moments peace during the day and things that aren't scheduled for me lead to alot of frustration (I love programs that use a chapter a week or have a set up IG with a weekly schedule).

 

So that's why I returned AAS. I didn't want to give up so I decided to give Phonics Zoo a try, just because I like the IEW products and I got it used from our boards. Looking at it in my hands I can see that it's more advanced than what my son needs but it was really hard going totally back to start with him. We both were frustrated and felt defeated.

 

Anyway, having a rough day with pain and fatigue so probably won't make any progress with this today. Thanks for reading all!