So how do the Phonics Road users like the GRAMMAR portion?

[HappyGrace]

I read every word of the LOOONG thread and didn't see much about the grammar. Do you find it effective the way it is taught? Are they retaining it? Able to apply it in other areas (for example, in their writing?)

 

And as an aside, Carmen mentioned the spiral nature of PR-do you find it does plenty of spiral review? And if so, how is it done? I can see that you'd be reviewing the rules via song. Other than that, how else is it spiral?

 

Sorry-another question-about how long would it take to watch the DVD section for the week? I read you can FF sometimes, so maybe just a general idea of the longest it would be if you didn't FF.

Edited March 10, 2010 by HappyGrace

[Quiver0f10]

:lurk5:

[LoveBaby]

Mmmm...the video lessons, maybe 15 min or so. I'm getting ready to watch the next set of lessons today, so I'll pay closer attention to the time and get back to you.

 

Grammar portion is more significant in the later levels, I believe. In level 2 you begin framing codes and grammar tunes. For example in week 29 of level 2:

 

day 1:introduce and define conjunction, introduce new marking, dictate sentences on Framing Code and them mark completely.

day 2: define conjunction, dictate sentences on Framing Code the connect them correctly.

day 3: review: dictate sentences and mark. The sentences are given in the Foreman's Manual.

day 4: review: dictate sentences and mark.

 

The grammar portion looks like it continues to build as you go through the program each week. Introducing a new concept one week and then using it for 2 weeks, adding in previously learned things. I haven't used PR 2 yet, I'm just looking at the foreman's manual for the "daily framing schedule". There are instructions for each week and places for notes from the DVD.

 

I'm using PR mostly to help with spelling and to elminate gaps, so for me the grammar instruction is truly going to be a huge bonus for us, not the main reason I'm using the program. I tend to be more CM'ish when it comes to grammar in the early years, but PR weaves it in so beautifully that I think my children will gain a lot from it.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I read every word of the LOOONG thread and didn't see much about the grammar. Do you find it effective the way it is taught? Are they retaining it? Able to apply it in other areas (for example, in their writing?) Yes. Very effective and I'm surprised at how well they retain. I was so used to the drill, drill, drill of Rod&Staff that when I saw only 5 examples (1st level) for grammar practice, I thought no way...but then the next day, they do 5 more examples, then build on each step, it works so well! It approaches one subject at a time (noun, pronoun, verb, base verb, helping verb, etc.), teaches a matching tune, practices with Building Codes, then has them build phrases, which they turn into sentences, marking every phrase and sentence along the way. You review the songs and definitions each day, too. The amount of work also jumps from level to level, i.e. 5 examples in the beginning of Y1 is 8-10 by the end; 10 becomes 15 in year 2 and later 20 in Y3...building incrementally, while reviewing the old before adding the new.

 

I like the connectivity of the grammar section. In RS everything felt separate. This program really makes a connection between the Language of English and how we have Parts (of speech) in our Whole (language study).

 

There have been a few places that didn't stick, so we just practiced more using the same words or a trick from my magic bag :) (like making linking garland for linking verbs).

 

There is a built in review at the end of each level, a review at the beginning of the next level, and many times the student refers to a previous building code to draw from. For example, yesterday dd in PR3 looked back at PR2 to see a list of adjectives and build them into phrases (the next logical progression).

 

Finally, just as my experience, my dd retained little to nothing from FLL1/2 and RS 2, 3. We have completed PR1&2 this year and she has remembered everything. Some of this is age and ability, but I am impressed at how accurately she remembers things...and I find marking the sentences makes more sense to a younger dc than diagramming ever did.

 

And as an aside, Carmen mentioned the spiral nature of PR-do you find it does plenty of spiral review? And if so, how is it done? I can see that you'd be reviewing the rules via song. Other than that, how else is it spiral? see above

 

Sorry-another question-about how long would it take to watch the DVD section for the week? I read you can FF sometimes, so maybe just a general idea of the longest it would be if you didn't FF.

Well you can watch her spell all 20 words...and I did at first, so that can be timely, but once you get it, you won't need to. After understanding the program, it really is fast; until it clicks, maybe 40 minutes (if you watch her spell Every. Single. Word).

 

 

Grammar portion is more significant in the later levels, I believe. In level 2 you begin f I tend to be more CM'ish when it comes to grammar in the early years, but PR weaves it in so beautifully that I think my children will gain a lot from it.

Yes, it is and I do find the first 2 levels work out nicely as a CM/Classical educator too. Gentle, yet effective. Using PR has actually helped me understand the benefits of copywork and dictation on a whole new level. I never understood how effective gentle can be....I'm sure my dc thank the Lord daily!

[HappyGrace]

I'm getting more and more excited!!!

 

I hear you about FLL 1/2-it worked pretty nicely for my older dd, but she only remembered things short-term. I just pulled it out to think about using it with ds, and I know it will not click with him AT ALL. I was so bummed. I used some of R+S 2 with her too-I agree it seemed very disconnected. And this is my guy that needs connections to make it stick. I have really been having major LA angst for him, trying to find just what PR seems to be! I'm praising the Lord to have found it!

 

I have to run but I'll come back later to be able to sit and very carefully comb over the great answers here! I can't fully express my thanks for all the help!

[Honey Bee]

Using PR has actually helped me understand the benefits of copywork and dictation on a whole new level.

 

Tina, may I ask you to elaborate...:D please...

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina, may I ask you to elaborate...:D please...

Sure. Using multiple levels not only showed me where to begin, but where I was trying to get to. Now, I see the point of dictation and copy work. I did not understand it before, and considered it busy work; but the DVDE instruction points out those little teaching tidbits as it assumes the user knows not how to teach the skills. That's fantastic b/c knowing what something is and teaching how to use it are quite different. Mrs. Beers doesn't let me miss those little things!

 

Using PR, you teach the basics of capitalization and punctuation. She teaches to "narrate" the punctuation initially,then how they will grow into marking the punctuation on their own in time. For example, "The four small boys ate green eggs (comma) ham (comma) and orange pudding (period)" will grow into, "The four small boys ate green eggs, ham, and orange pudding." The student will go back and recognize where to place punctuation. I didn't realize you could dictate the marks, without causing confusion, or having to teach each mark first. So, the example actually taught me how to properly dictate. I make sure they repeat aloud what I said. I didn't do that before, either. So my version of dictation and copy work was previously, sadly lacking.

 

Dictation has taught me to teach them about holding words in their minds. Even today, as they copied for history, I reminded them to look at their copy work in "chunks" or phrases, keep the words in their minds, then write them....just like we do for dictation. I bridged a gap for them, b/c PR bridged it for me.

 

Copywork used to be something like, "Here, copy this." Using PR, I had them copy an outline, reminding them to keep the items lined up. I followed the video cues in PR. After they copied, I was able to explain to them what they had done and easily explain an outline. The copywork was both the lesson and the tool. I spent days trying to make sense of outlining for The Elders.

 

I think that is where I got it...dictation and copywork are both the lesson and the tool!

 

Finally, I am seeing how they both honestly create better writers! As they grow in dictation and copy work, they are able to recognize in other people's writing and see when something doesn't look quite right. At the same time, they are seeing punctuation at work in complex sentences (older dc). Each time we create a valuable sentence via dictation or copy work, we are remembering the models of earlier work. I see the connection b/t both skills helping to produce better writers. AND the skill carries on...now The Elders simply receive both skills from more advanced writing or more complex paragraphs in lighter works.

 

I also see the benefits in note taking with The Elders, fwiw. They are pretty decent at remembering what I said and putting it on paper...dictation :)

 

Again, I see this as my novice shining through, but even after reading several books, articles, sections, etc, I just didn't get it. PR put it in front of me and made the path clear. I now understand how to assign and teach through, but I also know where we are headed, so I can make sure we don't miss anything along the way.

[HappyGrace]

This was a really helpful post, thanks! WWE is one of the things I'm dumping because PR will have the copywork/dictation in there for me, all nicely integrated. (And I can easily do narration from our own readings.) I really like WWE, but it just felt so disconnected from everything else. Not SWB's fault-in the textbook you can see she meant you to be able to pull it out from your curriculum so it integrates, but I just don't have time for that! At least now all our LA will be integrated with PR! I think it will help ds to make the connections.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks HappyGrace. I really had not considered dumping WWE. I am thinking about it now.

[HappyGrace]

Yes, Tina's post made me realize he will be getting the copywork in PR. Dictation too. I had been doing very simple dictation via "Dictation Day by Day" second year-free on Google books. Now I can dump that too! I can't believe how much this will streamline things for us!

 

I am like you-all I want to do is talk about PR with everyone! There's no more posts about PR that I haven't read :( (Some of them twice-lol!)