Who has used Classical Writing for an older student? and a ? about Analytical Gram.

[ruth]

All my questions are for ds who will be in 7th grade in the fall.

 

I'm looking for solid foundational writing and grammar program for the jr.high years.

So far I am sold on Analytical Grammar, and I'm thinking of using it over 2 years.

 

I also have always liked the concepts and way CW is taught, but have never used it. I was considering using "CW for an older child" program over 7th and 8th grade because it seems like so much work per week.

 

I'm afraid my ds will be in a little shock .

 

OK, let me have it, what do I do? I have been reading all the great posts on grammar and writing, but I need some help.

 

Thanks ladies.

 

Ruth

[Sunshine State Sue]

Here junior high is 6th-7th-8th. What do you consider junior high?

 

I am using AG for 6th-7th-8th. We have finished season 1 and are reviewing every 2 weeks. The 10 weeks of season 1 were intense because we've never worked on any subject 5x per week. AG is great - clear and concise. I also do not believe that it takes an inordinate amount of time.

 

I seriously considered CW and think it would have been an excellent choice if I had more time and my ds were more cooperative. I eventually chose Write Shop and it has been a good combination for us.

[ruth]

Thankyou Sue, I hope to hear other respones and opinions

[Jackie in AR]

All my questions are for ds who will be in 7th grade in the fall . . .

 

I also have always liked the concepts and way CW is taught, but have never used it. I was considering using "CW for an older child" program over 7th and 8th grade because it seems like so much work per week.

 

I'm afraid my ds will be in a little shock .

 

I would use the Older Beginners book in 7th grade, then move into Diogenes (essay writing) in 8th grade.

 

The Older Beginners contains 22 weeks (2 Aesop and 20 Homer if I'm remembering correctly) of assignments; that work can be spread out as needed over a typical 36-week school year. In addition to the writing, you will cover much ground in grammar during that time, so I would make sure to allow plenty of time in his daily schedule for CW. Have you seen the Homer Core book? I think you'll be impressed at what your ds will be able to do after a year of working through that book.

 

My 7th graders had a little bit of shock this year when their math stepped up from about 30 minutes per day to about 1 1/2 hours (Singapore Primary Math to NEM 1), but they got over it. ;) They now do their daily math time without batting an eye. You can assure your son that when he gets in the groove of CW, he'll be able to handle it.

[Julie in GA]

Agreeing with Jackie.

[SS in MD]

My 6th grader is using enjoying Wordsmith this year. Next year what to use? She enjoys writing, but I would like a foundational program as well. We plan to continue w/R&S Eng 7, which is somewhat time consuming, but thorough. How much time, on avgerage, does CW for older beginners take daily? Is this one on one time w/me? I'm asking because I'm also schooling 3 others and wonder if I can commit to CW? Hope this makes sense...

 

Thanks so much for your help...

 

P.S Also, my 2nd dd (4th grader) is finishing up WT II, can she use CW (same level as well?) I'm assuming she can't since she probably isn't ready for the CW older beginners book? I don't know if I can manage CW w/2 levels... anyway, just curious if I could teach both together? If not, I would prefer to start older dd on CW, and for 2nd dd use something else in the mean time... thanks again

[Jackie in AR]

My 6th grader is using enjoying Wordsmith this year. Next year what to use? She enjoys writing, but I would like a foundational program as well. We plan to continue w/R&S Eng 7, which is somewhat time consuming, but thorough. How much time, on avgerage, does CW for older beginners take daily? Is this one on one time w/me? I'm asking because I'm also schooling 3 others and wonder if I can commit to CW? Hope this makes sense...

 

Thanks so much for your help...

 

P.S Also, my 2nd dd (4th grader) is finishing up WT II, can she use CW (same level as well?) I'm assuming she can't since she probably isn't ready for the CW older beginners book? I don't know if I can manage CW w/2 levels... anyway, just curious if I could teach both together? If not, I would prefer to start older dd on CW, and for 2nd dd use something else in the mean time... thanks again

 

CW for Older Beginners will take from 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours per day, 4 days per week. That assumes you'll cover one lesson per week. I'm basing this on our experience in Homer, which makes up 20 of the 22 weeks of Older Beginners. Not all of this will be your time as there will be plenty for the student to do on his own. R & S 7 would be a perfect grammar accompaniment OR you could just study the grammar that is presented each week in Homer and save R & S 7 for Diogenes. That is what we did. If you did choose to use R & S, you might consider doing just the grammar lessons in their book and skipping the writing while using CW.

 

No, a 4th grader wouldn't be able to do the Older Beginner's book. The authors recommend it for 7th grade up. Depending on her writing background, she would probably be in Aesop A or B. Both of those are scheduled for 18 weeks of assignments; you can easily spread out one week over two and get finished in a year. If you chose to do that, your dd would likely spend about 30 minutes per day on Aesop, 4 days per week. And it includes grammar as well. There has been much discussion on the CW forums about placing students in their books. You'll learn a lot from that website.

[SS in MD]

Jackie,

 

Thanks for the informative post. I had one more question- My 2nd dd (4th grader) is finishing up Writing Tales II this year. The author of WT said after WT II a child can go straight into CW Homer. So, next year in 5th if I did CW Homer with her, could I also use Homer with my 7th grader next year? Or do I still need to use the Older Beginners book for my 7th grader? Not sure what the differences are in Homer and the Older Beginners Book. Thanks SO much for your help!

[Susan in SoCal]

A 5th grader (especially one who has finished WTII) could certainly begin Homer.

 

The main difference between Homer A + B and Homer Older Beginners is that Homer is a 2 year program for a younger (5th grade) student. Homer Older Beginners essentially condenses material from Aesop & Homer into a one year program for older (7th grade+) students. It moves QUICKLY. I don't think a typical 5th grade student could handle Older Beginners. And, I don't think it's probably prudent for a 7th grade student to spend 2+ years on narrative writing without additionally being exposed to essay writing.

[Jackie in AR]

Yes, I agree with Susan. I would move along with the 7th grader in narrative in order to get to essay writing.

[SS in MD]

Thanks ladies,

So just to make sure I understand, Next year 5th grader should start Homer A, then in 6th move to Homer B. Next year 7th grader should start with Older Beginners book, in 8th move to Diogenes?

 

Thanks again for your help!

[Jackie in AR]

Thanks ladies,

So just to make sure I understand, Next year 5th grader should start Homer A, then in 6th move to Homer B. Next year 7th grader should start with Older Beginners book, in 8th move to Diogenes?

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

Yes, that is exactly what I would do.

[Lisawa]

Its a fantastic writing program.... I love it! It is time consuming, but worth the effort. My daughter was actually in 8th grade when she began the older beginners. I’m not to hung on on grade level as I am as ability.... I don’t feel bad... Im glad we did it...

 

If I didn’t have to be out of the home, or have such a busy life right now, we would have continued on. I just don’t have the time to invest in it.

 

Analytical grammar is our choice too. We love it. My girls are not excited to do it, but they are learning more than they ever have... so we will continue on till we complete it....

[SS in MD]

Jackie,

 

One more thought to ask you-

 

I'm concerned that for my 7th grader R&S English 7 along with CW Older Beginners book, along with the rest of dds school load (Algebra, Apology Gen Sci, Latin...the list goes on!), might be too much daily for dd. I'm considering spreading R&S English 7 over 2 years (7th & 8th) then R&S English 8 in (9th & 10th). Or simply use AG for 7th and 8th. AG looks a lot less time consuming, but I wonder if it's complete? It seems hard for me to imagine it is, seeing it's a 3 year program, but I've read on the boards people really liking it. Anyway, from your previous post I read that you've used R&S English 7 as well. How did you manage your weeks with dc? Also, looking in the years ahead, I'm sure Diogenes requires even more time.

 

Thanks so much for giving me YHO!!

[ruth]

thanks everyone! very helpful!!

 

Ok, so no spending 2 years on older CW, got it.

 

What about Anaylitical Grammar? I still want to use this program? it looks so great! but I'm not one for over-kill

 

Could I use AG and CW older together?

 

One more ? I will have a 11yr old-5th grader dd next year who has had Bob Jones grammar and writing, do you all think I could start her in Homer, or should we begin in Aesop?

 

Thanks again

 

Ruth:thumbup:

[Jackie in AR]

I am doing just what you suggested - spreading R & S 7 over 7th and 8th, and R & S 8 over 9th and 10th. They don't do any of the writing assignments in R & S, just the grammar. They work in the grammar book 2 or 3 times per week, and we just quickly go over something that they know well. They do enough exercises to make sure their memories are fully refreshed or to cement a new topic. I don't anticipate going any further in R & S than the 8th grade book.

 

Actually, for us, Diogenes (Maxim) hasn't taken any more time than Homer. It has been fun (for me, anyway ;)) to move on to essays after all that narrative work. And my boys really do like Diogenes. I recently bought the Diogenes (Chreia) materials but have yet to sit down and look at all of it.

 

I don't know anything about AG.

 

And that is my VHO! :D

[SS in MD]

Jackie!

 

Thanks for the re-assurance! I need that! I noticed from your blog you use TOG. I'm considering using TOG (year 1) & possibly CW as well. This isn't too much for your dc? I'm concerned about this for dd with everything else on her plate. Sorry again to deviate from the original post, you can reply to me on a new OP if you want. Just wanted your opinion on how your dc are managing and how you plan TOG - It honestly looks a little overwhelming to me... thanks again for your time!!!

[Jackie in AR]

Jackie!

 

Thanks for the re-assurance! I need that! I noticed from your blog you use TOG. I'm considering using TOG (year 1) & possibly CW as well. This isn't too much for your dc? I'm concerned about this for dd with everything else on her plate. Sorry again to deviate from the original post, you can reply to me on a new OP if you want. Just wanted your opinion on how your dc are managing and how you plan TOG - It honestly looks a little overwhelming to me... thanks again for your time!!!

 

I responded on your new thread.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=127089#poststop

[ruth]

I don't mind the hijacking of the post, those are some of the best messages.

 

I'm using TOG 2 redesign and it has been the best thing for our school this year, just pre-ordered year 3.

 

Once you get the feel of TOG it is so easy to use and the kids expect the same rhythm every week.

My dd informed my that today was arts and crafts day (even though I didn't have anything ready) , so she's off making an apron.

 

I love it!

 

Still wishing for more input on the AG?

 

thanks