History/Literature for a child who.....

[mommy25]

hates to read????She is an 8th grader and despises to read unless, of course, it is something SHE wants to read. And she hates history. I have another daughter who LOVES to read and pretty much reads anything. We have books galore. But it is not her thing. She often starts books and then loses interest and doesn't return to them. I REQUIRE a certain amount for school but it is a huge burden for her.

 

So what should I do? Especially since she will enter high school next year. :001_huh:

[Closeacademy]

Just an idea--have her watch the movie forms. This will give her a working knowledge of the books/events and it may get her interested enough that she wants to read the book.

 

I wanted to read Jane Eyre because the movie was so good. The same with A Secret Garden, Anne of Green Gables, etc. I've found some favorite authors this way.

 

The history channel also has excellent history programs that drag you in and get you excited.

 

:001_smile:

[mommy25]

Thanks....I think that is a good idea. We are studying ancient Greece right now so I will request some stuff and see how it goes.

[Ester Maria]

Studying things that aren't her primary academic interest is a part of school too.

Therefore, I would completely ignore all of her complaints and not modify a curriculum to indulge her. But that's only me.

[mommy25]

Studying things that aren't her primary academic interest is a part of school too.

Therefore, I would completely ignore all of her complaints and not modify a curriculum to indulge her. But that's only me.

 

Yes, I agree. That is why I said I still require her to read for school. But it is still drudgery for her. Just trying to find a way to make it more interesting to her.

[birchbark]

Does she do better with audio?

[mommy25]

Does she do better with audio?

 

She does have a hard time with this....she does a lot better when she can see it in front of her.

[mommy25]

Is there any particular reason that reading is drudgery for her?

 

Really, if she just wants to get it over with a text can be a viable option.

 

She doesn't like to read things that don't interest her. And she has a hard time staying focused or keeping her mind engaged. I am very much this way too. But my othe daughter is complete opposite. She devours books all the time.....

 

I know she will have to buckle down and read material that she doesn't particularly like; but I thought I would try and spark her interest a little.

[Kfamily]

I'm struggling with my dd in the same way. We usually have a lot of oral reading going on. She has trouble staying with a book if she is not highly interested or feels like she has to read it. I let her read many of her books for school out loud to me. We can discuss anything as it comes up and I like the discussions we can have right after she finishes the reading. Could she read some of them out loud to you?

[delaney]

This reminds me of my DS who announced that there were "no more good books to read" after he finished reading all the Beverly Cleary books he had. None? He must be in a very small library.:D

[Closeacademy]

Have you tried the time/life or DK sorts of history subject books that have lots of pictures and tables and such. If she likes things more visual this might help as well.

 

Does she like look at fashion magazines? Then she may like looking through the costume and art books. You can learn a lot about how people dressed and lived from those.

 

Just some visual ideas to make things more fun and interesting.:001_smile:

[Ester Maria]

Yes, I agree. That is why I said I still require her to read for school. But it is still drudgery for her. Just trying to find a way to make it more interesting to her.

Against my better judgment, I'm going to suggest this. :)

Try having her read non-linearly. Most of the people go nuts if required to approach a work that way, but for some people it can be more interesting, as they feel they're making a "puzzle" by reading a bit at the beginning, a bit in the middle of the book, then the last chapter, then again continuing from the beginning, etc. So you end up reading the entire work, but having to reconstruct the chronology in your mind. If nothing else, at least it's fun - I wouldn't normally recommend approaching literature this way (especially not on a high school level), but maybe it's worth trying with one book and seeing if it would make her feel more amused at least.

[PeterPan]

Are you SURE she doesn't have any reading problems, eye problems, or anything else contributing to this?

[mommy25]

Are you SURE she doesn't have any reading problems, eye problems, or anything else contributing to this?

 

I have racked my brain trying to come up with a reason behind this. Her eyes have been checked and they are fine. I have had her read to me selections that were at higher grade levels and she did fine and was able to read very comfortably.

 

The only thing I can think of is that for whatever she is reading that there may not be enough background given in order to understand the meaning of the text.

 

For example, I gave her one of Genevieve Foster's books The World of Captain John Smith. She cannot follow the story line. And so maybe she needs more background, I don't know.

 

We have covered world history but maybe not enough; I am thinking that she still doesn't have a good picture of events. So my husband says he would like for her to read all of the Story of the World books by April. Then we will go back, starting in 9th grade, and go deeper. Because I tell you, I am at a loss to know what to do. My daughter has been in tears over this. And me too......and I don't have time to sit with her and go over everything because I have multiple children and only so much time in the day.

[PeterPan]

Ok, can I back up and ask one more question? When you say she hates to read, can I ask what she reads when she choses it? Are you saying she hates to read everything but comic books and junk/potato chip reading? Does she read books to do book reports? Quality fiction like Swiss Family Robinson, Heidi, etc.? Have you used any fiction/lit reading lists like in the VP catalog or WTM?

 

See here's the thing. Not all kids like history, and I think sometimes people try too hard with those people. If it's only that she hates reading HISTORY, give her a history textbook and move on. But if the problem is she can't ready ANY quality works, then you have an issue.

 

Your dh's suggestion that she read all 4 of the SOTW books quickly is a good one, but could I make a suggestion to refine that? I suggest as she reads she writes 1-3 sentence summaries of each chapter into a notebook. She should also then put those events or people onto a timeline. It could be a very simple timeline, just some pieces of cardstock taped together with clear packaging tape and hole-punched to fit in her notebook. Don't make it hard. Or I saw once where someone made a vertical zig-zag timeline like the one in CHOW and used that with their kids. Just a little something so she can put pieces in their places and wrap her brain around stuff. I think people who are not history people (me!) flop at history because we can't see the big picture. Reading through SOTW would be one way to get her there, but it still won't work if she just reads it. She has to do a little bit with it, make those short summaries, and organize it in her mind. If you keep that additional work brief, only 5 minutes per chapter, that's not such a big deal. It will be better than reading the whole thing and having it all flow together. It will also show you if she actually is having any issues.

 

What have you been doing for lit, book reports, book summaries, that type thing? Not meaning to be nosey, sorry. VP has lists by grade, and so does WTM. I'd probably start there, back a few grades, and work up. You might just be out of her genre and need to find the type of books that click with her, especially if everything you've been reading and assigning is history-related (bleh).

 

And btw, for her future history you might consider a textbook. Might not be popular around here, but textbooks are GREAT for some people. Go read Hoggirl's posts where I recommended a BJU text for her history-hating son last year, and see how he's done with it this year. :) Some people just thrive on a textbook. It's organized, lets you see the big picture, has clear expectations, starts at the beginning, is visual. I mean there's just a LOT to be said for textbooks. BJU, CLP, or maybe Abeka's. I don't like the paper in some of the new edition Abekas, so I'd lean BJU or CLP. Try it. It very well might solve your problem. Why fight? There's nothing wrong with textbooks. They're easy on mom, and they're BETTER for some kids. I only speak as a history hater here. The only history I ever tolerated in school was BJU's. (went to a variety of schools) My mother and step-father both work in museums, and my mother shoved history down my throat for years, bless her soul. I hate history, don't wrap my brain around it, still do. You ought to see how I spit trying to teach my history-loving dd, lol. No amount of teaching changes that, and I think people should get out of the way and stop trying. Sometimes the trying makes it worse. A textbook is SO much clearer to a big picture learner than a bunch of historical fiction and TOG-style theme weeks, kwim? Don't be afraid of 'em. :)

Edited February 3, 2010 by OhElizabeth

[mommy25]

Ok, can I back up and ask one more question? When you say she hates to read, can I ask what she reads when she choses it? Are you saying she hates to read everything but comic books and junk/potato chip reading? Does she read books to do book reports? Quality fiction like Swiss Family Robinson, Heidi, etc.? Have you used any fiction/lit reading lists like in the VP catalog or WTM?

 

See here's the thing. Not all kids like history, and I think sometimes people try too hard with those people. If it's only that she hates reading HISTORY, give her a history textbook and move on. But if the problem is she can't ready ANY quality works, then you have an issue.

 

Your dh's suggestion that she read all 4 of the SOTW books quickly is a good one, but could I make a suggestion to refine that? I suggest as she reads she writes 1-3 sentence summaries of each chapter into a notebook. She should also then put those events or people onto a timeline. It could be a very simple timeline, just some pieces of cardstock taped together with clear packaging tape and hole-punched to fit in her notebook. Don't make it hard. Or I saw once where someone made a vertical zig-zag timeline like the one in CHOW and used that with their kids. Just a little something so she can put pieces in their places and wrap her brain around stuff. I think people who are not history people (me!) flop at history because we can't see the big picture. Reading through SOTW would be one way to get her there, but it still won't work if she just reads it. She has to do a little bit with it, make those short summaries, and organize it in her mind. If you keep that additional work brief, only 5 minutes per chapter, that's not such a big deal. It will be better than reading the whole thing and having it all flow together. It will also show you if she actually is having any issues.

 

What have you been doing for lit, book reports, book summaries, that type thing? Not meaning to be nosey, sorry. VP has lists by grade, and so does WTM. I'd probably start there, back a few grades, and work up. You might just be out of her genre and need to find the type of books that click with her, especially if everything you've been reading and assigning is history-related (bleh).

 

And btw, for her future history you might consider a textbook. Might not be popular around here, but textbooks are GREAT for some people. Go read Hoggirl's posts where I recommended a BJU text for her history-hating son last year, and see how he's done with it this year. :) Some people just thrive on a textbook. It's organized, lets you see the big picture, has clear expectations, starts at the beginning, is visual. I mean there's just a LOT to be said for textbooks. BJU, CLP, or maybe Abeka's. I don't like the paper in some of the new edition Abekas, so I'd lean BJU or CLP. Try it. It very well might solve your problem. Why fight? There's nothing wrong with textbooks. They're easy on mom, and they're BETTER for some kids. I only speak as a history hater here. The only history I ever tolerated in school was BJU's. (went to a variety of schools) My mother and step-father both work in museums, and my mother shoved history down my throat for years, bless her soul. I hate history, don't wrap my brain around it, still do. You ought to see how I spit trying to teach my history-loving dd, lol. No amount of teaching changes that, and I think people should get out of the way and stop trying. Sometimes the trying makes it worse. A textbook is SO much clearer to a big picture learner than a bunch of historical fiction and TOG-style theme weeks, kwim? Don't be afraid of 'em. :)

 

Wow...thank you for taking the time to ask questions and help me think my way through this. Here are some answers to your questions:

 

-She choses books that are mysteries. She likes the christian book series...for example, Red Rock Mysteries. They do not pertain to history and are based on the people similar to her -- real life stuff.

 

-She would choose junk/potato chip stuff all the time if I would let her. I feel that I have given her too much freedom at the library with the thought of "well at least she is reading." But now I have banned her from checking out books with the goal of trying to change her appetite for certain books.

 

-She does not read to do book reports. I don't have my kids do book reports. I have usually required oral/written narrations.

 

-I have the book Heidi and Swiss Family Robinson and I know right now that she would not pick it up on her own. And if I made her read it, she would gripe/complain the whole way through. I know she would come to me and say it was boring, or that she didn't understand it, or that it would take her too long to get through it, or that she can't stay focused on the story....I know if the language is very difficult she won't stay with it.

 

-I have a lot of the books on my shelves from WTM and Veritas. And yes, I would get a lot of what I mentioned above.

 

-Regarding SOTW....what you mention/suggest is exactly what we are doing. We have all the maps ready along with a timeline and requiring summaries for each chapter.

 

-You mention backing up and looking at literature lists etc...So as it stands right now, I am not sure where to begin. This years focus was supposed to be on ancients (as a family, I have 5 kids total). But it just isn't working as I can't seem to stay focused and my time is limited. My husband is thinking that this whole thing of "keeping the whole family on the same period in history" is not going to work for our family. It seems to work for a lot of families but because it depends on me to carry it out and be consistent, it ends of falling apart. The literature in WTM is "history" focused. I will have to look at Veritas, though, because I don't think all of there literature is history related. But I can tell you that I do not have high hopes for reading any of it. It seems she needs to pick the book and start reading it, and if it keeps her interest, then she continues to read. If not, it is a chore for her and for me, to make sure it gets finished.

 

-I wonder about the history textbook thing. Probably something I need to look into at the Midwest Homeschool Conv. I thought that once they got to high school, the focus shifts from the study of history to the study of literature. See this is where I struggle too. I do not have a highly academic child on my hands here. So I don't know what highschool will look like for her.

 

-And you mention CLP....is that Christian Light or Christian Liberty? But again, is this a focus on literature or history at the high school level?

 

-Also my dd has said that she would like to study topics in history such as the Civil War, or the Renassiance, so that she can learn it and understand it. But I always hated doing that because I want her to understand what lead up to it....chronological order of history. But maybe I could do a topical study next year after she has the foundation of the SOTW in place. Not sure.

 

Thanks again for your time in this.....

[PeterPan]

My dd LOVES mysteries right now, so I know what you mean! Have you seen the Roman Mysteries series? Also there's a Viking Adventures series. You gotta mix the mystery and the history. :)

 

Ok, now deep breath. Here's my two cents. Whatever she can do is a separate discussion from what she is doing now. I don't know if she has some LD or limit that needs to be accomodated. To me, at this point she sounds like a girl who has been allowed to read a lot of easy books and likes reading easy books. No great shock there. The question is how to move her up. Do you realize you could have made this easy all along on yourself and gotten a lit program? Seriously, that's why they exist, for moms who are too busy to make their kids read stuff. So you've been having her read books and give oral or written narrations? Well if you look at WTM, in say the 5th or 6th gr recs, there's spartan little difference between that and what they want of a book report. The only difference is getting it done. ;)

 

It sounds to me like you've gotten overwhelmed. It's hard to deal with a lot of issues at once. There's no reason she can't read the 5th or 6th gr WTM literature lists. You're making this too hard on yourself saying it all has to coordinate, mercy. If you study american history and read ancients for lit, the world does not fall apart.

 

You know what I would really do with your dd? I would find a list of acceptable books, books you WANT her to read, something at the 5th-8th gr reading level, and then I would get the CHILDREN'S versions of those books. There's a series called Great Illustrated Classics that has easier versions of a lot of stuff. You can pair the books. Have her read the easy book, then have her read the real version. And when she reads the real version, have her write chapter summaries (just 1-2 sentences, no big deal) into her reading notebook. Make it a small, pretty thing she can keep with her while she reads. So she reads, then jots her summary. (Emma screwed up so and so's marriage. Don Juan won the girl.) Don't make this hard. I make my dd do this, and it helps immensely when you're moving them into material that flusters them a bit.

 

The other thing I do is put it on her weekly checklist as required work. She has a spot to write the title of the book, so we know the plan. On Monday's we pick it. The summary is due by Friday. And it must come with those chapter summaries written in the notebook. No quibbling, nothing unclear, and nothing *you* keep track of. It's her assignment, her project.

 

You're going to have to go back and find the foundation and build up here. She may benefit from going back and reading the 5th gr WTM lit lists. Then read the WTM 6th gr lit lists. And so on. Yes, the VP lists for lit are AWESOME. There you could look at say the 3rd gr lists and just read your way forward. You can skip the really boyish ones, but for all the rest of them I'd actually make her read them, every single one. And don't let her crab you. I'd pick a quantity, say 60 pages a day, and REQUIRE it. With my dd I require a book a week for summaries, but your dd is older. With a dc her age, I'd start setting page requirements and get her moving. That way she can't beef you and complain. And if you're going to do that you have to give her a time slot where she's in her room and can DO that reading.

 

I got my dd reading glasses recently. She was getting headaches, even with 20/20 vision, from the strain. She always said the print was too small, and I just assumed it was, till an optometrist looked at me funny. ;) It's something about the difference between reflexive and stimulative focusing.

 

I'm not saying the books she reads have to be HARD or plucked right off the 8th gr WTM lists. Those lists are meant to be worked up to. But it seems to me you could start at a lower place, say 3rd or 5th gr lists, and start working up. She might really enjoy The Hobbit, which is on the VP list for I forget what gr. They actually use it in elementary and again in junior high for Omnibus. I googled and got a wonderful, free lit guide I used with my dd for Hobbit. You might find it convenient to do something like that with your dd. I'm thinking the comprehension questions would be an easy way for you to track how she's actually doing on her reading. She could be assigned to read say 2-3 chapters a day, and then at the end of the day you would go over the comprehension questions with her. You have to pick whatever form of accountability you can manage, and it's ok to mix it up for variety. Every so often you might toss her one of these for variety http://www.mrsrenz.net/bookprojects.htm You could do them on her historical fiction btw. Together you could pick a good historical fiction book on that time period she wants to study, and she could flesh it out using one of these fun projects. :)

[PeterPan]

BTW, you're going to be at the Cincy convention? Is your dd coming? Since they both like mysteries, our dd's could get together and talk about favorite books. :)

[mommy25]

Do you realize you could have made this easy all along on yourself and gotten a lit program? Seriously, that's why they exist, for moms who are too busy to make their kids read stuff. So you've been having her read books and give oral or written narrations? Well if you look at WTM, in say the 5th or 6th gr recs, there's spartan little difference between that and what they want of a book report. The only difference is getting it done. ;)

 

 

Okay...you have lost me here. Can you explain a little more about what you mean here? Thanks....

[AngelBee]

She does have a hard time with this....she does a lot better when she can see it in front of her.

 

What if she used audio and "read" the book at the same time? :)

[AngelBee]

As a woman with ADHD, your daughter sounds a lot like me when I was in school.

 

:grouphug: She is lucky that she has a loving mama homeschooling her! :)

 

Maybe she would like paging through Kingfisher World History book. Or watching things like Unsolved History or traveling shows on cable. They help me to find a "spark".

 

I love history, but am not a big fan of science. But I am changing that :) I have been watching How It's Made and Myth Busters. It is helping me be more science friendly.

[PeterPan]

Well I had three things there, in that one small quote. :)

 

-lit programs--You'd be surprised at the undercurrent of people on the boards here who DO use them, and LIKE them or even recommend them. Bob Jones is particularly good. If you start with something like that and work up, you get a gradual progression. You get something that is easy to implement that lets you see their holes in comprehension, etc. And nuts, in the upper levels you even get enchanting dvd lesson options with teachers who love it and will suck your kid in.

-narrations vs. book reports--In WTM book narrations of the lower years transition right into what WTM calls book reports. WTM limits them to one page and asks them to give a dab of opinion about the book at the end. And of course WTM recommends you get them written down.

 

You might just review the logic stage chapter on reading in WTM and see what clicks with you. It might be some meshing of 5th-8th gr expectations would be best.

[mommy25]

Well I had three things there, in that one small quote. :)

 

-lit programs--You'd be surprised at the undercurrent of people on the boards here who DO use them, and LIKE them or even recommend them. Bob Jones is particularly good. If you start with something like that and work up, you get a gradual progression. You get something that is easy to implement that lets you see their holes in comprehension, etc. And nuts, in the upper levels you even get enchanting dvd lesson options with teachers who love it and will suck your kid in.

-narrations vs. book reports--In WTM book narrations of the lower years transition right into what WTM calls book reports. WTM limits them to one page and asks them to give a dab of opinion about the book at the end. And of course WTM recommends you get them written down.

 

You might just review the logic stage chapter on reading in WTM and see what clicks with you. It might be some meshing of 5th-8th gr expectations would be best.

 

Okay...so let me see if I understand. You are saying to purchase a Bob Jones textbook (for history or literature?) and use that in place of reading real books? At what level would you start? I have never seen one before so I am not sure what exactly to look at.

 

I'm sorry I am not totally getting what you are saying. I guess I am not picturing it in my mind. If I have a 9th grader (next year) what will history and literature look like for her? Are those separate textbooks? And do I need teacher manuals?

 

I will review what WTM says about the reading in logic stage.

 

And yes, this is the first time I am taking one of my kids with me to homeschool convention. We live in Indianapolis but we find that the Midwest convention is far superior. We are about an hour and 1/2 away from Cincy. Have you been before? How old is your daughter?

[mommy25]

As a woman with ADHD, your daughter sounds a lot like me when I was in school.

 

:grouphug: She is lucky that she has a loving mama homeschooling her! :)

 

Maybe she would like paging through Kingfisher World History book. Or watching things like Unsolved History or traveling shows on cable. They help me to find a "spark".

 

I love history, but am not a big fan of science. But I am changing that :) I have been watching How It's Made and Myth Busters. It is helping me be more science friendly.

 

Thank you!!! I think she takes a lot after her dad with the ADHD tendencies. Hmm....I wonder how I would find out if she has any learning disabilities? Just thinking out loud.....

[PeterPan]

From the 7th gr lit up, BJU uses real lit, just as selections instead of whole books. That really works for some kids though, so I wouldn't just automatically discount it. BJU should be there, so you'll get to see everything and see what clicks with her. Anything you get like that is just a tool, something you can select from and tweak and use to fit her better.

 

Yes, the Cincy convention is wonderful. The other great thing there is just meeting and talking with people about how they do stuff. Somebody was just saying there were 17,000 people there last year. Maybe that included kids? In any case, it has gotten bigger every year and should be huge.