What would my upcoming 5tgh graders get out of Classical Conversations?

[Sonshine]

We have a great CC community very close to us. My two 5th graders would have a great tutor, possible for both the morning and afternoon classes (sorry, can't remember their terms for those) with a friend of mine who is truly gifted at teaching. They are both on grade level or above in math, one is fine in reading, spelling, and writing, another needs to pick up her reading, spelling, and writing. They both need help with grammar as we haven't done enough of that. I usually do well in those types of settings and don't get offended at too many rules, etc. I am concerned that the grammar is not well laid out (or so I've read on here) and that maybe the Latin is difficult. These are my youngest children and due to my ADHD and driving older siblings to and fro, they don't get the amount of academic time they should, so I know CC would help with that. They both already have friends in the group. I guess my hesitancy is my weariness after so many years of homeschooling of figuring out yet again another system (but this would only affect me and I would not not do CC because of this) and the possible frustration for all of us over the grammar and Latin. I also don't like the idea of being locked in for the year, although if I had to I could drop it, but would lose my money. The main thing I think I need help with them is getting their language arts skills up to par, especially hers, and he would love the history memorization, as he is gifted at that and loves history.

 

I usually post on the general board but it seemed this had more to do with curriculum. Any insight you'all would have is appreciated.

[HerdingCats]

My sons are both in the morning program and one of them is in the afternoon program you are talking about. I would say there are things about both which may be ideal for your situation. Spending time in the car is also a good opportunity to review memory work on the CD. Many moms do not do more than this for the Foundations homework.

 

The major time commitment on your part would be to the afternoon class. This is where the Language Arts is covered. A good teacher can make or break this portion of the class. I personally do not care for the way the Grammar instruction is approached, but our teacher has made the class interesting and fun enough that my son is still learning a lot in class. I don't require my son to do all of the homework assignments for the grammar because some of it is copying full page charts for memorization. This would not work well with my son's writing tolerance. I do help him with his papers (usually one paragraph due each week) by guiding him through the IEW book and typing his papers. He has really come a long way, but this has not been an independent endeavor.

 

There really isn't any Latin instruction at the 5th grade level. The Challenge program is where this is introduced. Any Latin exposure in the lower grades is purely memory work. There are endings to memorize and sometimes a verse to memorize, but nothing beyond that.

 

HTH!

[lauracolumbus]

We only do the morning program and I don't think you'll have any problems w/either the Latin or grammar. The Latin this cycle for us is just memorizing noun endings, which is easy for my 2 kids who are already studying it, but lots of kids in their classes (4th and 6th) don't have any Latin background and they do just fine. The grammar this cycle is very helpful. They're memorizing prepositions, which is very helpful w/our diagramming. They assume no knowledge on the part of the student. I can't speak to the writing program in the afternoon.

 

Laura

[SonshineLearner]

I have 2 question firsts.... Are you planning to home educate through highschool? And..... Are you looking at Challenge?

:bigear:

[Sonshine]

Yes, I plan to home educate them through high school. The longest I would leave them in the program would be 8th grade (Challenge B?) as I already have other preferences for high school.

[i.love.lucy]

I'm not in CC but we are planning to do it next year. I have been to the campus to sit in on a class and I loved it. I will also have a 5th grader next year and I think CC will do wonders for us. First, accountability. I do better when I know what's expected and that I have a deadline to get it done. I think having someplace to be each week with academics accomplished will help all of us make sure we get it done. Second, Christian community. We are in a homeschool group but it's very loosey-goosey and we can go weeks in between seeing friends. It works fine for the moms but isn't working for my kids. They will benefit tremendously from seeing friends weekly. Third, academic rigor. I don't think CC is rigorous per se, but the families that attended the one we like all seem to hold academic rigor as a high priority for their kids, so they put the work in to make the CC materials matter, and they have high standards in the rest of their curriculum and I like that a lot.

 

I agree the Essentials (LA) part doesn't have the best layout, but the class I sat in on was a blast. That tutor was so fun and made it fly by. The writing was great too, and then they played math games and really challenged eachother. I can see the positive peer influence being a big deal for my dd as she tends to be shy and needs others to bring her along and bring her out.

 

I think the atmosphere on the campus and the tutors is huge with CC. I'm fortunate to have 4 campuses to chose from and the one we really want has a waiting list. But I thought it was organized, comprehensive, fun and prayerful. We can't wait to find out we are in!

[SonshineLearner]

I'd say that it's probably worth it for 5th graders to start... you'll get 2 years in before Challenge A and then you can decide. As far as Challenge, it's who the tutor is.... and how they present the material. You have to remember that CC is very into the Tutor being the Tutor, and the parents being the Teacher... That's pretty true, since you're with your children for 6 days and the Tutor... for part of one. :-) If you have seen your friend in action... and you know that it'd be a good fit... I'd do it. Like I mentioned... you'll have enough time to think about Challenge..... during that time, and hopefully be able to do some observation of the Tutors at your program:-)

 

:-)

[elfinbaby]

We've been in CC for 1.5 yrs. My ds (5th grade) is in his 2nd yr. of Foundations (a.m. class) and 2nd yr. of Essentials (afternoon class). I'll be honest. I'm a big fan of CC. Most of what I've read about the dissatisfaction w/CC is due to 1) having a poorly run program 2) not understanding the kind of program CC is designed to be.

 

Basically, your a.m. program is memory work. That's it. Your children are older so they are likely to have some history sentences, science questions, etc. fleshed out. It's not meant to take the place of what you are doing at home. That's why CC refers to the "teachers" as tutors. CC can play a large or small part in your curriculum. It's up to you. Just know that tutors are the drill masters for the information and they do their best to make it fun. I think the material chosen for memory work is excellent so it's worth it for me and my children love it. We have a wonderful community that is well organized so my satisfaction is high!

 

Your afternoon program is different. Since it is designed for older students, it combines the notion of grammar and dialectic stage. I am happy with both the Essential of English Language curriculum plus Our Mother Tongue and IEW for writing. I've read posts about the EEL that were less than great (sometimes much less:tongue_smilie:) and I don't get it. After a 1.5 yrs. in Essentials, my son can label a verb, decide it's type (transitive or intransitive), tense, form, number, person, voice and mood. That's just for verbs. Maybe I'm an idiot but I'm impressed. I think there are two things going on with the criticisms of EEL (and I'm just guessing ya'll). There is a steep learning curve for the guide. It can be frustrating but with the help of other parents and a good tutor, you'll be fine. I've also recently noticed (through our own personal grammar struggles and discussions with our tutor and other parents) that there are questions that I can't find an answer to in the materials. My guess is that this program is more focused on drilling. Some things are fleshed out and explained but these students are still in the early dialectic stages so it mostly focuses on drill. I'm presently buying more recommended resources to fill that void. Now that I've figured it out, I'm okay with it:) Ds can ask questions that would make a college professor proud. I can't answer them and I think a teacher at a higher level would be pleased he even THOUGHT of it!

 

Even though ds is only in 5th, we probably won't be doing another round of Essentials - not because it's lacking, but because it served it's purpose. He's solid on the "grammar" of the two courses. Now it's time to play and do some thinking with what he's learned. Perfectly dialectic!

 

The most important thing is for you to know what you are getting in to. If you are clear and desirous of this supplement to what you are all ready doing, then you'll probably be happy. The criticisms of Essentials don't bother me. I read a post that mentioned a student that completed the course and had little knowledge of grammar. I can only assume that, although he/she took the course, it doesn't mean there was mastery. It could have been the student's struggle or the parent's lack of reinforcement. I don't want to offend but, if you have a good tutor and make an effort at home, I can't believe that any child could not walk away with at least a basic understanding of grammar (and the course is designed to be repeated over 3-4 so the idea is to accomplish mastery over time).

 

HTH:D

[i.love.lucy]

Elfin, that was a very thorough and thoughtful post and I really appreciated it! Of all the posts and opinions of CC, Essentials was the one component I keep hedging about. I was super impressed by the tutor (and fingers crossed she returns next year) and now what you had to say about it seals the deal.

 

Thanks!:D

[Sonshine]

Thanks everyone for your excellent input. For some reason, it's still a hard decision to make.