Lingua Latina--Can we talk about this again?

[Myrtle]

I was swamped when I did a search for this on these boards.

 

Specifically, I want to know the grade level at which this program begins. In other words, is it for high school students? Would one begin it at the same time one would ordinarily begin Henle (junior high)? Or is it for middle school students?

 

I had no problem with teaching Henle to my son in the fifth grade so if you tell me it requires the same level of maturity that will give me an idea!

 

I'm wondering if Henle plus an immersion approach might not be overkill, but I guess I can figure that out when I get physically get to see the book.

 

If it's okay for younger students that would be great too.

[LisaNY]

I was swamped when I did a search for this on these boards.

 

Specifically, I want to know the grade level at which this program begins. In other words, is it for high school students? Would one begin it at the same time one would ordinarily begin Henle (junior high)? Or is it for middle school students?

 

Middle School is a good starting place. It *can* be done with younger children, but you need to decide beforehand that you will be doing some modification. The grammar quickly gets intense by the 6th chapter. By modification I mean that you may have to skip some of the grammar and come back to it later. You can illustrate what the passive voice means, but avoid getting bogged down with the passive forms. Just keep reading, explaining the passive when you come to it in the readings, and then move on.

 

I had no problem with teaching Henle to my son in the fifth grade so if you tell me it requires the same level of maturity that will give me an idea!

 

What Units did you cover in Henle? If you covered Units I-IV reasonably well, then you should be fine with chapters I-X in LL. (Once you hit Unit 5 in Henle, you can then fully cover the passive in chapter VI)

 

I'm wondering if Henle plus an immersion approach might not be overkill, but I guess I can figure that out when I get physically get to see the book.

 

No, it is not overkill at all, as long as you keep in mind that things move quickly once you get past the first few chapters in LL. Take it very slowly with LL, and try not to cover too much too soon. I would take advantage of the downloadable stories on the Focus site - Fabellae Latinae. Each story corresponds with the chapters in LL. I would also get Colloquia Personarum, which also has stories that correspond with the chapters in LL, and they're fun to read. This will keep you busy, and reinforce what you are learning in LL. As I am sure you have read in the other threads, you should get a good run going in Henle before dipping into LL. Spend a lot of time on each chapter in LL - reading each story at least 10 times, section by section. Also get the Exercitia booklet, which gives comprehension questions for each section. Unfortunately, there is no answer key for the comprehension questions in the Exercitia, which means you will have to know the stories yourself. :001_smile: There are answers to the Pensum C questions, but there are only a few of them as compared to what you get in the Exercitia.

 

If it's okay for younger students that would be great too.

 

As I mentioned above, it can be done, with modification.

 

 

Does that help?

[Myrtle]

Does that help?

 

 

That was fabulous help! Thanks for the many details. I'll try to get a copy right away.

[LisaNY]

You're very welcome, Myrtle. I am glad to be of help. :001_smile:

 

If you need help anytime with LL, ask away!

[Mama Lynx]

I'd like to add my experience, and a question:

 

No, Henle and LL together are not overkill. Personally, I love the combo. For middle school or younger children, of course, you will use your common sense and make the combo work *for* you, making adjustments as needed (but I know you're more than capable of that).

 

With LL, I think it's important to take personality, as well as age, into account. I tried LL last year with a very mature, advanced 4th grader. It did not go well. However, I think that had less to do with his age than his personality. He is very literal and logical and hated, hated hated that he was expected to deduce the meanings of words from context and clues. We dropped it. We'll try again later, to see if age and maturity will help.

 

I would love for Drew, or anyone, to be more specific about how they modify LL for younger students. I know that Drew has had success teaching LL to very young kids. In the fall I will have a 1st and 2nd grader, and am becoming curious about just what I can do with this book with them. From my limited POV, it doesn't look to me like I could do more than the first couple of chapters, unless I ignored the grammar and just focused on having the kids understand the story. Is that how it's done, with younger kids who barely have a grasp on very basic grammar concepts?

[Myrtle]

I would love for Drew, or anyone, to be more specific about how they modify LL for younger students. I know that Drew has had success teaching LL to very young kids. In the fall I will have a 1st and 2nd grader, and am becoming curious about just what I can do with this book with them. From my limited POV, it doesn't look to me like I could do more than the first couple of chapters, unless I ignored the grammar and just focused on having the kids understand the story. Is that how it's done, with younger kids who barely have a grasp on very basic grammar concepts?

 

Inquiring Minds!

 

I will have a second and third grader. My plans include teaching the grammar once they are old enough for Henle, but what to do until then? I have Minimus and it doesn't seem so much like teaching Latin as an entertaining "Latin Appreciation"...:glare: I am also trying to avoid Latin books that present words without context such as lists and matching activities, I saw a sample of Prima Latina and that's not what I'm looking for either. :confused:

[LisaNY]

Inquiring Minds!

 

I will have a second and third grader. My plans include teaching the grammar once they are old enough for Henle, but what to do until then? I have Minimus and it doesn't seem so much like teaching Latin as an entertaining "Latin Appreciation"...:glare: I am also trying to avoid Latin books that present words without context such as lists and matching activities, I saw a sample of Prima Latina and that's not what I'm looking for either. :confused:

 

Myrtle - would Lively Latin work for you? I know very little about it, but it's pretty popular here with younger dc.

[nmoira]

 

I will have a second and third grader.

Have you looked at Lively Latin? It's designed to lead right into Henle. My oldest is almost done Big Book 1 and is looking forward to continuing to the next level. She did well with the first Minimus, but concepts were not presented in such a way in Secundus to make sense to a "big picture" kid. Latin is the first subject she asks for after History.

[Mama Lynx]

Myrtle - would Lively Latin work for you? I know very little about it, but it's pretty popular here with younger dc.

 

(I know, I'm not Myrtle, but we're in the same boat.) I own Lively Latin, but I guess I need to contact Ms. Drown; when I go to the site to download the chapters, most of the chapter pdfs only contain one page. By looking at what each lesson is supposed to teach, I am fairly certain the pdfs are supposed to be several pages, not just one?

 

This is something we are considering, if I can get the thing to work.

 

Myrtle, no, you don't want Prima. And you are right about Minimus - I love it for an entertaining, let's-get-softened-up-for-Latin study, but not for a real introduction to the language. I would consider using Prima for my current 6 year old, who reads and is chomping at the bit to learn Latin and the Greek alphabet, yet I'm not ready or able to commit the time to really teach him; Prima, in that case, gives him what he wants while letting me off the hook for awhile.

 

I don't mind using Latina Christiana as a way of getting some Latin into their heads while I'm teaching enough Latin to get them ready for Latin Prep or Henle, but it *seems* like Lively Latin would be more interesting, and a better educational base.

 

(Side note: Before I wrote this post, I was working through some Lingua Latina exercises on the CD-Rom. My younger son (now 10), the one I mentioned in the last post who hated LL, saw what I was doing and stopped to do the exercises for Cap. I himself. Go figure. And cool :)

[nmoira]

 

I own Lively Latin, but I guess I need to contact Ms. Drown; when I go to the site to download the chapters, most of the chapter pdfs only contain one page.

That is strange. The files each contain at least 25 pages. Is the entire file downloaded? Which viewer are you using?

[Mama Lynx]

That is strange. The files each contain at least 25 pages. Is the entire file downloaded? Which viewer are you using?

 

It happens to me using both Preview (a Mac reader) and Adobe. The first three chapters have all the pages (well, I think so - Chapter 2 has 20). But chapters 4 and 5 are only a page each, and it's hit or miss after that, but more often miss.

[buddhabelly]

Latin for Children is excellent at teaching grammar to third graders, IMHO. It might be more fun than Henle. We are about 2/3 through "B" and while I get overwhelmed sometimes with the difficulty of Latin, my son always encourages me to keep on with it! :001_smile:

 

We are also adding in Lingua Latina for some extra practice. My son is a third-grader, but very advanced in language arts and logic.

 

We began in second grade with Minimus and Latin for Children "A". Minimus will not teach your child much Latin, but it is so. much. fun. Your children will be speaking Latin to each other way after "Latin" class is over, and they will be having a ball.

 

Just my three cents.

 

Julie

[nmoira]

 

It happens to me using both Preview (a Mac reader) and Adobe. The first three chapters have all the pages (well, I think so - Chapter 2 has 20). But chapters 4 and 5 are only a page each, and it's hit or miss after that, but more often miss.

Weird. I just downloaded Lesson 4 and it looked fine in both Preview and Acrobat. It has 15 pages, starting at page 67 (we're near the end of the book and the Lessons must get longer). I didn't see any mention of similar problems in the forums there. The only thing I can tell you is that the file is 2.8 megs. Perhaps Ms. Drown can email you the file and see if that works.

[Plaid Dad]

I would love for Drew, or anyone, to be more specific about how they modify LL for younger students. I know that Drew has had success teaching LL to very young kids.

 

Well, the prevailing wisdom among teachers on the Oerberg list is that third grade (8) is about the youngest a child can use the program. I'm currently in chapter 2 with my dd, who is 6, but she is accelerated in language arts and has had significant prior exposure to Latin. For her, I have been making simple copywork pages and worksheets with comprehension questions (the same ones we've done orally) and fill-in-the-endings practice. I don't use the Exercitia book with her directly because the spacing is too tight for her writing and the pages are visually overwhelming to her. With my older students I do use the Exercitia book straight, but I have them write out some of the exercises on a separate sheet of paper.

 

For my dd, my grammar explanations so far have been very simple. At this point, we are dealing with the genitive to express possession. All I've said is "When we want to say that something belongs to Iulius, we use different endings." I then ask what the names Iulius, Quintus, and Marcus have in common (they end in -us) and what the genitive forms have in common (they end in -i). Then I go through the same process with the first declension names Aemilia, Syra, Delia, Iulia (-a, -ae). Then we practice like mad, by reading the text, doing lots of oral drill and some written exercises. It remains to be seen how well I'll be able to do this with dd when the grammar gets more complicated, but then, if I get through chapter five or six with her in the next year, I'll be satisfied.

 

In my classes I have students who are 8 or 9 up to high school age (plus their parents), and I am able to assign homework straight from the textbook (Pensa) and Exercitia book. The younger students do the exercises together with their parents; the older ones do them independently, although I know they call each other if they get stuck. That's fine with me. For reference, the younger group will probably get through chapter 9 this year; the older ones are trying to get through chapter 16, since two of them plan to enter school in the fall and want to test out of Latin I. In short, for both of those groups, I don't adapt Oerberg's method at all. I do give grammar explanations in English and I draw out parallels in English usage and grammar. I will occasionally translate a word if they are unable to get the meaning after several tries explaining it in Latin (with lots of miming, drawing on the white board, etc.). Mostly we read and read and read. I ask the students to read our current chapter plus one old chapter out loud, every single day as part of their homework. I know many of them listen to the audio CD or DVD too.

 

HTH!

[Mama Lynx]

Thanks, Drew! That does help.

 

Another funny note - my 10 year old, after yesterday's impromptu session, asked me if he could switch back to LL. He feels that Galore Park Latin Prep is moving too fast for him. (And I agree - I've been moving very slowly with him, but he's been doing *well.*)

 

Anyway, I'm thrilled. I anticipate him becoming frustrated again a couple of chapters into LL, but that's okay, too. He's only 10! We'll just take it slowly.

 

I am interested in how much repetition you are doing, Drew. I have read up through Cap. XV of LL. I understand the readings well enough, but I don't feel that I *know* the material. I can see that the constant repetition you do with your students must cement that understanding.

 

Do your classes meet once a week? Do you present the new material at your class session, and then have the students complete exercises and review chapters, the rest of the week at home? Do the parents review with the children daily? (I mean in your 10-12 year old students, that age range.)

[Beth in SW WA]

Drew,

Oh, how I wish you were local!! :)

[Plaid Dad]

Do your classes meet once a week? Do you present the new material at your class session, and then have the students complete exercises and review chapters, the rest of the week at home? Do the parents review with the children daily? (I mean in your 10-12 year old students, that age range.)

 

Yes to all of the above. :)

[Alex]

I cannot tell you how much I like these materials, which I received last week. I am going to be using them with my son (8yo) when he starts third grade in the fall.

 

I expect we will cover about one lesson per week, keeping in mind that each chapter usually has three lessons. That way, we will get through about 10 lessons this year. I have a mental rough goal of getting through the first part, Familia Romana, in about three years or so. That will bring us to middle school (grade 6) and the choice of what to do next.

 

I anticipate our lessons including our joint reading of the material, me asking him comprehension questions, working through some exercises together, and giving him practice exercises to do throughout the week. Our lessons happen on Saturday mornings. I hope to sit with him at least two nights a week and review the material and his homework.

 

Just my several cents.