TOG Writing Aids vs. IEW

[kls126s]

This is still a theoretical question for me, since I'm not using either curriculum yet... but I'm not the only one that loves to plan ahead, right? :001_huh:

 

Let's say we finished SOTW and I was beginning TOG for our next cycle (or two). We do CC and plan to do Essentials beginning next year, so we'll be using IEW. I plan to do TOG as soon as we are finished with SOTW.

 

Is IEW comparable to TOG's Writing Aids, or is one better than the other? Is it possible to use TOG Writing Aids for topics for IEW assignments so they stay tied together, or does it not work this way?

 

Does anyone combine them? Siloam - what do you do? Does anyone just not use the Writing Aids and use IEW instead?

 

Sorry if this is a stupid question - haven't had my hands on either of these programs other than previews.

 

:bigear:

[heart'sjoy]

We've been using TOG without writing aids and IEW for two years now.

 

I use the history or literature readings to make writing assignments. I make a list of planned writing assignments per unit of TOG and spread around the assignments between the types of units in IEW(summarizing stories, creative writing, essays). I don't even look at the writing assignments in each unit now because I'm pleased with the progress we're making with IEW. There is a skills progress checklist that I use to evaluate each child every semester and plan goals for the next semester. The skills checklist has kept us moving forward without having to purchase the individual courses.

 

The only area IEW does not cover is poetry analysis and poem writing. But as my children are younger I've found plenty of free online resources to dip our toes into poetry writing.

 

Many people integrate IEW and TOG. The IEW yahoo group has good info. Check the free file documents.

 

With IEW I just bought the TWSS, syllabus/teacher's manual and teacher videos. We picked one structure (ex. summary paragraph) and worked it till it got easier, then added a style (varied sentence structure), and another style, then tried a different structure (creative writing)till it got easy etc.

 

IEW word dictionary is worth it's weight in gold. We use it every time to make lists of adjectives, adverbs, and verbs to use as we make our outlines into paragraphs.

[bethben]

The above post was helpful to me. Ds is doing a co-op class SWI-A. I feel like it goes FAST for a 3rd grader. He barely got the key word outline thing (not enough to actually do well at it) and it's off and running into rehashing stories and reports. We tried WA for a few months and I felt like he was able to write better using WA. I do like that WA already has everything coordinated with what the child is studying that week. Ds really understands the court system as a result of reading and writing about it. Next year, I am planning on using WA with IEW dress ups and key word outlines. I think there's a happy medium between the two of them. Maybe I just need to use both and work on getting ds to actually find some IEW stuff easy before he moves on. So, heart'sjoy - could you share a sample week for you?

Beth

Edited January 12, 2010 by bethben
m

[FlockOfSillies]

I tried WA but it did not provide me with enough hand-holding as the teacher, and my dd found it too vague in its instruction. We prefer IEW and for now I am not worried about correlating it to history or science.

[heart'sjoy]

This is what works for now for us.:D

 

Monday-Outline KWO 1-3 paragraphs depending on child. Narate to family member with complete sentences and eye contact when talking.

 

Tuesday-Write paragraphs. If single paragraph kwo's are getting easy and complete sentences are easy we add a style element. Example, one child is adding adjectives, adverbs, and interesting verbs to all paragraphs. This child looks through the IEW word lists dictionary and makes a list of 5-8 of adjectives, adverbs, and verbs before writing. We just jot the list in the margins of the outline. A year ago this child might include one new word from the prewriting list. But the list is ready for Thursday when we go over the styles they are responsible for. After a year of IEW this child can get the styles we've been working on for a year into the rough draft.

 

Thursday- We "polish" /work on the style techniques they are responsible for. "Mommy I need help putting in a prepositional opener." "Mommy does 'sit' count as a strong verb."No grammar, or punctuation or trying to refine things that irk me.

 

Friday- We proofread. Fix grammar at their own skill level. I keep a running skill list for each child for them to use as a guide. I leave their mistakes unless it's a new skill I'm going to teach.

 

 

Variation for longer papers:

 

Monday: outline and write 3 body paragraphs

Tuesday: outline and write intro and conclusion paragraphs

Thursday: Polish/ style work

Friday: Proofread

 

I type their rough drafts triple spaces with size 20 font. They make corrections on the typed rough draft. I type in style work. They make proofreading corrections. I type in. They get to choose a border, colored ink.

I only type if I receive their work before 4 pm each day.

 

Whew this sounds like a lot of mom work. :tongue_smilie: It is. However, the weeks we're writing we're not doing, big science projects, salt doughmaps, hands-on projects, or unit celebrations. In fact next week will be our first week for writing since the Christmas break.

[kangato3]

I used Writing Aids for a couple of years. While I appreciated the variety of genres covered, I didn't think it provided enough guided practice on effective writing style. I had always avoided IEW, but finally broke down and got it this year. I now regret not having used it from the beginning - my kids' writing has really flourished.

 

In hindsight, I would have used IEW as my main program, but picked TOG's assignments that appealed to us and applied IEW techniques. My kids especially enjoyed writing plays and newspapers as part of the TOG assignments.

 

Louise

[siloam]

This is still a theoretical question for me, since I'm not using either curriculum yet... but I'm not the only one that loves to plan ahead, right? :001_huh:

 

Let's say we finished SOTW and I was beginning TOG for our next cycle (or two). We do CC and plan to do Essentials beginning next year, so we'll be using IEW. I plan to do TOG as soon as we are finished with SOTW.

 

Is IEW comparable to TOG's Writing Aids, or is one better than the other? Is it possible to use TOG Writing Aids for topics for IEW assignments so they stay tied together, or does it not work this way?

 

Does anyone combine them? Siloam - what do you do? Does anyone just not use the Writing Aids and use IEW instead?

 

Sorry if this is a stupid question - haven't had my hands on either of these programs other than previews.

 

:bigear:

Keri,

 

Well I don't use either as my main program, Classical Writing is that for me, but as I understand it IEW is more of a rewriting program. That would be similar in philosophy to WWE or CW, where TOG is more of a traditional program.

 

I used the TOG WA and topics for a while when I was teaching my oldest paragraphs. She was 4th grade doing level 2 or 3. I think it was level 2 skills (that is a TOG level, they have 12 levels of writing) with level 3 topics. Anyway it actually worked really well for the first 6 months when TOG introduces new concepts. The second half of the year TOG usually works on a big project, or little fun projects. As it happened it was writing a play, so I broke it into really small pieces: Chose your favorite person in history (George Washington), choose one event in their life (holding out against Boston early in the war), list the characters that would be in that scene...well that is where she fell apart and told me it was all too much, too overwhelming and wanted to stop. :rolleyes: She had already finished CW Aesop A and was doing this before Aesop B while she worked on grammar with JAG. I let her drop it and go back to CW.

 

Thus the biggest problem I have with TOG writing, is that it is a traditional philosophy. It does encourage narration and copywork, but doesn't schedule it (here that means it wouldn't happen). I have bought WA and I recently sold it realizing that long term I will use TOG topics (which is included with the main program), but CW will be our manual so to speak so I don't need WA, or if I do I won't need it for a while. It will be another year till she learns the 3 point essay where I could start using TOG topics again, if I want a supplement. I don't know how much I will use TOG topics, but I like knowing it is there.

 

I guess my question to you would be do you agree with WTM, rewriting philosophy or traditional writing approaches that has a child developing original writing before they have mastered physically writing, forming correct sentences, and putting thoughts together? I prefer to work on them as separate skills before combining. While TOG is gentle and you can keep your child at lower levels, which are more developmentally appropriate, it still...well it just doesn't get done here because it is too much of a battle. :D

 

Heather

Edited January 13, 2010 by siloam

[kls126s]

You know, I mean it quite seriously when I say that I am quite thankful for all the moms on this board - the shared experience and encouragement is just wonderful.

 

We've been using TOG without writing aids and IEW for two years now.

 

I use the history or literature readings to make writing assignments. I make a list of planned writing assignments per unit of TOG and spread around the assignments between the types of units in IEW(summarizing stories' date=' creative writing, essays). I don't even look at the writing assignments in each unit now because I'm pleased with the progress we're making with IEW. There is a skills progress checklist that I use to evaluate each child every semester and plan goals for the next semester. The skills checklist has kept us moving forward without having to purchase the individual courses.[/quote']

 

This is how I was envisioning integrating the two, so I'm really happy to hear that it's working for you. I'll go check that yahoo group. One follow up question about the skills checklist you mentioned. Is that part of IEW or TOG?

 

Keri,

 

Well I don't use either as my main program, Classical Writing is that for me, but as I understand it IEW is more of a rewriting program. That would be similar in philosophy to WWE or CW, where TOG is more of a traditional program.

...snip...

I guess my question to you would be do you agree with WTM, rewriting philosophy or traditional writing approaches that has a child developing original writing before they have mastered physically writing, forming correct sentences, and putting thoughts together? I prefer to work on them as separate skills before combining.

 

I do as well, which is why I'm inclined to go with IEW. Can you tell a little about why you chose CW over IEW?

[bethben]

What if you really don't care for IEW? Any program that requires me to wade through a bunch of information and watch videos to understand won't be a good fit for me. The way the information is presented in the manual is hard for me to wade through. I can't teach it if I'm not grasping it myself. I like WA because it is so straightforward, but I do know I need a lot of handholding in this area. I wish there was a book you could go through that combined IEW concepts with TOG - assignment 1, assignment 2, ect. Something that would assign which paragraphs to Key Word outline...So, any happy mediums out there?

Beth

[heart'sjoy]

One follow up question about the skills checklist you mentioned. Is that part of IEW or TOG?

 

 

 

The skills checklist for structure( outlines, summaries, creative writing) and styles (sentence types) is IEW material.

 

I'm not remembering right now if it came in the manual, off of the IEW website, or from the Yahoo group document files. I bet the yahooo group would know where to locate it.

[heart'sjoy]

IEW has some courses that teach directly to the student with assignments already laid out. There are even some history based writing courses from another company that use IEW material.

 

But I hear you about not wanting to wade through it. I see other material in other subjects like science I would like to try. But they are not a fit for my limitations.

[siloam]

You know, I mean it quite seriously when I say that I am quite thankful for all the moms on this board - the shared experience and encouragement is just wonderful.

 

 

 

This is how I was envisioning integrating the two, so I'm really happy to hear that it's working for you. I'll go check that yahoo group. One follow up question about the skills checklist you mentioned. Is that part of IEW or TOG?

 

 

 

I do as well, which is why I'm inclined to go with IEW. Can you tell a little about why you chose CW over IEW?

 

Keri,

 

I made my decision long before I ever read WTM, so the only thing I knew about IEW at that time, was that it was very easy for people to spot IEW users by their writing style. That kind of canned feeling was not what I wanted. Add to that the fact that I had a friend buy CW, and generously ship it to me to look at because she wasn't going to use it right away. Then she decided it wouldn't meet her needs and she gave it to me. It was a huge blessing because I fell in love with CW.

 

Now I know from WTM that you can drop the dress ups (I think it is) and you will loose most of the canned feeling of IEW, but by the time I read WTM I was already a huge CW fan.

 

Heather

 

[lovemykids]

What if you really don't care for IEW? Any program that requires me to wade through a bunch of information and watch videos to understand won't be a good fit for me. The way the information is presented in the manual is hard for me to wade through. I can't teach it if I'm not grasping it myself. I like WA because it is so straightforward, but I do know I need a lot of handholding in this area. I wish there was a book you could go through that combined IEW concepts with TOG - assignment 1, assignment 2, ect. Something that would assign which paragraphs to Key Word outline...So, any happy mediums out there?

Beth

 

Meaningful Composition is very much like this and it's written to the student.

[dsmith]

I haven't used IEW, so I don't know how helpful this will be. Writing has always been an issue with ds, so I started him out with WWE 1, even though he was 10 at the time. This was great for him - the narration exercises really helped him to organize his thoughts. When we started TOG, I bought WA because of the way it was integrated with TOG. He really loves TOG, and having his writing projects related to what he is learning in history helps to keep his interest. The many forms are so helpful to him -a visual aid really helps keep him on track. I love how I can go up or down levels in WA to suit his needs. I am planning on sticking with WA, but I am considering adding in IEW over the next year or two.