I need help understanding something in the NT. Why did synagogues allow Paul...

[4kids4me]

....to preach? If they were so set in what they believed, why let a "guest" speaker in to "ruin" everything? It seemed like every place he went, he was allowed to speak in the synagogue, people believed, other Jews became jealous, and Paul was run out of town. Why let him in in the first place? Am I not understanding how things worked back then?

[Twinmom]

Not everyone in the synagogues was opposed to Paul's message, for starters. Plenty were willing to listen and did believe. IMO, however, he was "allowed" in to speak because of his position as a Pharisee. He'd received a top notch education in the law, was well known as a strict Pharisee and had persecuted Christians before his own experience with Jesus on the Damascus road. So, most in the synagogues likely viewed him as one of their own...until he surprisingly started preaching about Christ!

 

HTH.

[4kids4me]

Wouldn't "word" get around, though, that Paul was preaching a different message than that of a Pharisee? And once he opened his mouth, wouldn't the synagogue leaders (Rabbis?) want to immediately put a stop to it?

 

I'm sort of putting it into today's context...if a pastor at a Baptist church suddenly turned, say, Catholic, but was still invited to speak at a Baptist church, wouldn't he be only allowed one time to speak, then those in leadership would put an end to it *immediately*? They wouldn't allow him in time and time again, and then only kick him out b/c people were converting and the leaders were jealous? I can't understand why the leaders of the synagogue didn't put a stop to it immediately.

[OHGrandma]

Wouldn't "word" get around, though, that Paul was preaching a different message than that of a Pharisee? And once he opened his mouth, wouldn't the synagogue leaders (Rabbis?) want to immediately put a stop to it?

 

I'm sort of putting it into today's context...if a pastor at a Baptist church suddenly turned, say, Catholic, but was still invited to speak at a Baptist church, wouldn't he be only allowed one time to speak, then those in leadership would put an end to it *immediately*? They wouldn't allow him in time and time again, and then only kick him out b/c people were converting and the leaders were jealous? I can't understand why the leaders of the synagogue didn't put a stop to it immediately.

 

I would think God had something to do with Paul speaking in the synagogues.

[LizzyBee]

I've heard that it was customary to let guests speak in synagogues at that time.

[Chris in VA]

News may not have travelled as fast as Paul! lol

Think about it--how many people left where they were and travelled all the different places he went, or knew people in other cities halfway around their "world?"

[dragons in the flower bed]

News may not have traveled as fast as Paul! lol

 

I just read a really interesting book called The Victorian Internet about how much the world changed when the telegram was invented. It impressed upon me how slowly news traveled during most of human history.

 

But, really, arguing different points of view is just part of Jewish culture. An arguer isn't rejected. It's like driving in NY. "You wanna get ahead of me? If you can, good for you! :::zoooooom:::" When I know someone has a different point of view that's convinced a lot of people, I want to see if I can find the holes in their arguments. I always imagined that's how they felt in those days, too.

[Faithr]

While I do think arguing over finer points of theology is a very rabbinic thing to do, what Paul was teaching was blasphemy and the punishment for such was stoning or some kind of death at any rate. I think Paul must have been terrifically charismatic and very well versed and intelligent, so perhaps folks were kind of impressed/cowed by his erudition and intensity. And after all he was persecuting Christians before he converted. Maybe folks just wanted to hear his story!

 

It is an interesting question. I wish I had a NT scholar I could pull aside and ask!!!!!

[Chris in VA]

I'll ask Hubby for ya--he's a NT scholar! lol

[4kids4me]

I still feel like there's more there...it seems like he was allowed to speak multiple times and it wasn't until people started converting that the leaders all of a sudden got jealous THEN he was kicked out. I'd think within 10 minutes of him speaking the leaders would be looking at one another saying, "What. The. Heck???" :)

[gsanmb]

Hmm. Well, I'm not sure of the chronology here. The fact is, at the beginning, what Paul was saying was controversial and inflammatory but not necessarily 'blasphemous.' There were a lot of people running around at that time in history claiming to be the "Messiah" (a wholly different concept in Jewish thought and theology than what it has come to mean to Christians...this is another topic, but in this context it's relevant...the Jewish Messiah will be in no way, shape, or form divine). Being that the Jews were a persecuted and oppressed minority by the time Paul was preaching, and were either on the verge of, or had just been, trampled by the Roman army (Judea was sacked and the Temple destroyed in 70 CE/AD) -- talk of a Messiah (to Jews, a liberator...as much a military leader as a religious one) was pretty rampant.

 

As well, the synagogue never has been solely a place of prayer. Most of Jewish life occurs in the home (even prayer service); the synagogue was and still is a communal gathering place and center. Someone coming to speak would have been the norm, not the exception -- even someone controversial. This is still true.

 

Once Paul (and other disciples) made the decision to 'break' with the Jewish world and branch into preaching to Gentiles, the message changed quite dramatically -- and Christianity was no longer another small sect of Judaism with controversial teachings (not uncommon, witness the Essene sect) but rather its own entity. At that point, he likely would not have been as welcome in synagogues -- especially once he began preaching that converts to Christianity would not first have to convert to Judaism (with all that entailed).

 

As an aside, although the term Pharisee is usually associated negatively in Christian thought, the Jewish tradition holds that the Proshim (Hebrew word for the same) were scholars and sages. In fact, it was the actions of the sages of that time which saved Judaism after the destruction of the Temple. It was they who wrote down the Oral Law (Mishna and Talmud) which had been passed down generation to generation orally since G-d gave Moses the Torah at Mt. Sinai (yes, we believe both were given at the same time). As someone revered as a sage, he would always have been given a forum to speak (until his message became completely contrary to Judaism, as it eventually did).

 

Also not incidentally, because of the way our calendar is timed (and depends on accurate timing), messages and communication were always relatively sophisticated among Jewish communities, going back to the time of the first Exile (586 BCE). It was somewhat disrupted by the Destruction in 70 CE, but it was still highly advanced. Messages would certainly have gotten through.

[Faithr]

Paul was teaching that Jesus was divine and not a worldly military Messiah. If it wasn't blasphemous why was Stephen stoned? Paul held the cloaks of those who did the stoning. Paul was on his way to Damascus to persecute the Christian sect there when he had his encounter with Christ. He had a hard time being accepted by the Apostles. They didn't trust him because of what he had done formerly. The new Christians were being persecuted, punished and even martyred pretty much right from the get go! The decision to reach out to the Gentiles happened after Christianity was rejected by most of the Jews and at the very least several years after Paul's conversion. So it still isn't clear to me why he'd be allowed to speak. There were death threats against him several times.

 

It could be though that since the Jewish world was in such disarray at that time people were open to hearing really shocking things! I think Paul must have been a powerhouse and a great speaker. He is one of those people from history I'd like to invite to dinner!

 

Also, Paul didn't 'develop' Christianity so that it became 'completely contrary' to Judaism. I'm not sure what you meant but that seems like an inaccurate reading of it to me. There was a definite change that came so that all could share in the Good News of salvation. But Christianity is definitely and profoundly related to Judaism and the Judeo-Christian worldview grew out of that.

 

And being Catholic I love the fact that Jews believe that the law given to Moses and Oral Law were both handed down at the same time, but recorded much later. Early Christians maintained that belief and it is still a foundational belief of the Catholic Church which believes in the Holy Bible and in Holy Tradition (which is the oral law that got written down by early church fathers.).

[gsanmb]

Ah, okay. I didn't realize the chronology of Paul, etc. Then that message -- that Jesus was not a Messiah according to Jewish teaching but instead to be considered divine -- would have very much been taken as blasphemous, contrary to the first and second commandments (as we hold them -- I am The One G-d Who Took You Out of Egypt; and You Shall Have No Other G-ds Besides Me).

 

I would not know why he would have been 'welcomed' other than that a) his reputation preceded him and knowledge of his 'conversion' was limited; or b) as you say, the Diaspora resulted in massive dislocation and disarray (sp) in the Jewish world.

 

Can't really speak to the persecutions/martyrdoms, as that was a Roman issue (and probably in response to the massive attraction of the new sect to many Romans/Gentiles, representing what would be considered a threat to power and culture).

 

Just to clarify, we believe both the Oral and Written Torah were given to Moses at Mt. Sinai. The 'written' Torah (the "Five Books of Moses" etc.) were written down immediately, by Moses. The Oral Torah (Mishna/Talmud) were written down and redacted between the 2nd and 5th centuries CE/AD.

 

Off to a Chanukah Choir presentation, more later. It's an interesting discussion.