CLE vs Rod and Staff

[Annie Laurie]

It seems like this would have been discussed here before so if I missed some threads in my search, please link me.

 

Anyway, I've used R&S before with my oldest child and I really, really like it. I was waiting for my middle two kids to be 4th and 3rd grade so I could combine them in R&S 3, making it easier to get it done since we could do it all together.

 

But, I have so much trouble figuring out how to get to everything with 4 kids. So CLE is appealing to me since it's more independent. Though I wonder if I won't end up sitting with them anyway, because just reading the directions on how to diagram or whatever may not be enough.

 

But right now every single program we use is very teacher intensive.

 

So did anyone find that CLE freed up more of your time? How long does a Rod & Staff lesson take at this level? Anything else I should know?

 

Just to confuse things further, FLL 3 is a possibility too, if it's less time consuming. (Though I know it's teacher intensive).

[Ellie]

Are you asking about the English?

 

I didn't find R&S to be teacher intensive at all. In fact, the authors wrote R&S materials with multi-grade, one-room schools in mind, where the teacher only has time to check homework and make assignments.

 

When I used R&S in my one-room school, I wrote the English and spelling assignments on the chalkboard and went over the lessons *very* briefly. The dc read the lessons and did the assignments independently.

[Annie Laurie]

Are you asking about the English?

 

I didn't find R&S to be teacher intensive at all. In fact, the authors wrote R&S materials with multi-grade, one-room schools in mind, where the teacher only has time to check homework and make assignments.

 

When I used R&S in my one-room school, I wrote the English and spelling assignments on the chalkboard and went over the lessons *very* briefly. The dc read the lessons and did the assignments independently.

 

It's definitely past my bedtime... Yes, I'm referring to English/grammar programs, thank you for deciphering that.

 

I suppose I had assumed we would need to do the majority of R&S English orally since it would be a lot of writing. That's why I thought it would take longer. But filling in workbooks may not involve less writing.

[G5052]

My younger one is using CLE for four subjects (not language arts), but we did try language arts at one proint. I like that she can plug away without me, and she's good at teaching herself. The hard part is being sure that she does everything and checking it. I require that she put them all in a stack where I sit as she finishes them, then I glance through her work for completeness and general correctness without a key. Then on Friday I actually sit down while they're at martial arts and grade every single detail. I wish that I had time to grade every blank every day, but this has worked for us. On Fridays I then mark anything she needs to redo on Monday and areas I need to work with her on. I realize that you're only doing language arts, but you'll still need to work out a time or method to check their work. Some families have the kids check their own work, but I'm not in agreement with that at this point even though she's logic stage and could do that.

 

When we tried the language arts, I like it but the spelling was not at the right level and the cursive was not our style, so I felt like I was crossing out too much to make it worthwhile. At that point we went to co-op writing/grammar, so it became a moot point anyway.

 

:auto:

[Guest aquiverfull]

This year we are using CLE. We have never used R&S so keep that in mind. The CLE 500 series is what we are using. It is supposed to be independent, and that's what we do. However, seeing that my dd is not doing well, I need to rethink things. On the 3 test she's taken so far she has scored either right at 80 or a little below that in the 70's. You have to get at least an 80 to pass. Everything under 80 is considered failing. I think it's my dd though. I'm finding that she doesn't do well with the independent thing. It's probably her learning style, I feel she does much better when I actually do some teaching first. After going over things with her and then taking the alternate test, her scores were better. It could also be that we bought a higher level than what she needs. We had only done a little BJU English and one of the Sandi Queen books before this. CLE is very rigorous. I've heard it compared to R&S though, so since you're already doing that your children may be fine in switching.

 

What I'd like to know is...Does R&S actually have the teacher "Teach" the lesson first? The Teacher's Edition is not very helpful at all. There is no actual information to teach. Just stuff like: spelling list and then page numbers to work on, etc. However, I have heard that Teacher's guide can really vary depending on the year. Are R&S teacher's guides any better?

[MIch elle]

It's probably her learning style, I feel she does much better when I actually do some teaching first.

 

What I'd like to know is...Does R&S actually have the teacher "Teach" the lesson first? The Teacher's Edition is not very helpful at all. There is no actual information to teach. Just stuff like: spelling list and then page numbers to work on, etc. However, I have heard that Teacher's guide can really vary depending on the year. Are R&S teacher's guides any better?

 

We used R&S English for years before switching to CLE LA 7 this year. R&S E. TM has you do a lesson introduction and oral questions BEFORE you begin the lesson. I find that way to be best for us - lesson intro & review of previous concepts. I review the previous day's lesson or any part that my ds is not strong in (white board) and then we do our daily grammar flash cards. We make our own grammar flash cards (been doing this for years) and study them EVERYDAY until memorized.

 

R&S E. TM is worth it's weight in gold; the CLE LA TG is worthless or almost. I've used R&S E. for so many years that I know what/how to teach CLE LA without a TM/TG.

 

I switched to CLE LA because R&S English was no longer working for my younger ds (he used R&S E. 3-6). He needs a spiral approach and the R&S English mastery approach wasn't working well for him. CLE LA 7 is perfect for him for both grammar and spelling/vocab.

[Ellie]

I suppose I had assumed we would need to do the majority of R&S English orally since it would be a lot of writing. That's why I thought it would take longer. But filling in workbooks may not involve less writing.

Yes, that's what I think: that filling in workbook pages does not involve less writing. I think it's easier to write on a single piece of paper than it is to write in a workbook, and that it's more conducive to developing good penmanship. And also, IMHO, children who are not able to do R&S English independently are just not ready to do it at all.

[razorbackmama]

I am teaching 5 this year, so I feel your pain!

 

We are using R&S right now for English. I specifically DON'T do the oral things with them BECAUSE of the time factor. If I had the time, I so would. But alas, I don't, so they do have to write the answers out. They hate this, I will admit, and I'll probably be switching to some sort of worktext format next year because of it. They don't complain too much (which is uncharacteristic of them;) ), but I know they prefer worktexts.

 

Anyway, I meet with each of the older 3 for about 30-45 minutes per day to go over assignments and such with them, and their R&S English is included in this. We go over what the lesson says, and I may or may not formally TEACH it, depending on how well I think they are understanding the explanation in the book. I haven't had to teach it very often.

 

I do have to GRADE it, but I do this in the late afternoon, when I'm doing all my other grading for the day.

[skaterbabs]

Thus far we've been very pleased with CLE LA (100,500 & 600.) We don't have the kids score their own work, however. I sit down with Dot (100 level) while she works, and visually check for errors as we go. Yacko & Wacko do their assignments and then bring it to us to check. We score it, then they have to correct their mistakes. Anything they obviously don't "get", we go over with them. Because I work 3rd shift, being able to assign a lesson, then go sleep while the boys do it, and make corrects while dinner cooks really works for our family.

[Guest aquiverfull]

We used R&S English for years before switching to CLE LA 7 this year. R&S E. TM has you do a lesson introduction and oral questions BEFORE you begin the lesson. I find that way to be best for us - lesson intro & review of previous concepts. I review the previous day's lesson or any part that my ds is not strong in (white board) and then we do our daily grammar flash cards. We make our own grammar flash cards (been doing this for years) and study them EVERYDAY until memorized.

 

R&S E. TM is worth it's weight in gold; the CLE LA TG is worthless or almost. I've used R&S E. for so many years that I know what/how to teach CLE LA without a TM/TG.

 

 

 

Thanks so much for the great advice and info on the R&S teacher's manual. I really appreciate it. I have been considering making some flash cards or a file folder game, or something to help my dd remember these things. :001_smile: