Are Too Many Students Going to College? (article link)

[Gwen in VA]

[email=http://chronicle.com/article/Are-Too-Many-Students-Going-to/49039/]http://chronicle.com/article/Are-Too-Many-Students-Going-to/49039/[/email]

 

The article raises a lot of interesting points.

[Jane in NC]

Here is the direct link to the article.

 

Indeed I am always troubled by articles like this because I fail to understand the measures that some use to value things like a college education. It appears some individuals only consider monetary outcome when assessing value, possibly because it is quantifiable. I just do not see the world in terms of money the way these so called experts do.

 

Granted, I do not consider college as the be-all-and-end-all for everyone. My father was a skilled laborer--I see value in plumbers, die cast workers, and craftsmen. It is a shame that certain traditional occupations (for example in fisheries) can no longer bring an income to a family because of environmental degradation or because the factory that makes wool or steel is no longer in the US. What is a non-academically minded student to do?

 

I think it is a shame that American high school students do not graduate with opportunities to become apprentices. They are rarely able to speak several languages as are their counterparts in other countries. This leads me to wonder: is the problem that too many students in the US attend college or is the problem that our high schools are insufficient, thus requiring our students to attend post-secondary programs?

[TravelingChris]

I think so. We were in the waiting room for community college guidance counselors. THe two students we could hear in that room shouldn't

have been in college, at least not at this point. One could hardly read and the other had absolutely no idea what college was about or how to get into any occupation. She was throwing out occupations of which some didn't need college at all and others needed doctorates.

 

It is much the same problem with the AP classes at schools. At first, I thought that maybe my kids were somehow behind because they hadn't done AP classes, but rather classes I design often using college texts. Well they aren't since apparantely the kids around here often take lots of AP classes but can't pass the test at all. We are talking about getting 1's.

 

 

I don't think it should be limited to only the top 10 to 15% but trying everybody to go is stupid too.

[IsabelC]

I think this person has got it right. Young people should have a choice, but they can't make a meaningful decision without the relevant information.

All high-school students should receive a cost-benefit analysis of the various options suitable to their situations: four-year college, two-year degree program, short-term career-prep program, apprenticeship program, on-the-job training, self-employment, the military. Students with weak academic records should be informed that, of freshmen at "four year" colleges who graduated in the bottom 40 percent of their high-school class, two-thirds won't graduate even if given eight and a half years. And that even if such students defy the odds, they will likely graduate with a low GPA and a major in low demand by employers. A college should not admit a student it believes would more wisely attend another institution or pursue a noncollege postsecondary option. Students' lives are at stake, not just enrollment targets.

[Nan in Mass]

I agree. I was just thinking about this because of Singapore's NEM math, which we are doing. All students do NEM, and the ones going on to do more school do NAM concurrently. NEM is the last math for some students. I'm not saying that this is good or bad, just that it made me think.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Sometimes, information like this scares off students who would be better off just getting the loans and going to college. My son's high school friend was from a non-college family. He was horrified at the cost and couldn't imagine why my son would want to go and incur such debts. He definately had a hand in talking my son out of it. Now my son is in college and was really adamant that we make his younger brothers go right away. I'm not saying that is the right approach, but I think many of us who were well-served by college in the long run would have chosen not to go if we had really understood the short-term implications of the finances. Personally, I'm glad my family's attitude was "Don't talk about it. Just get the loans and do it. Yes, it is expensive but it is worth it. We want you to go for at least two years. Then, if you hate it, you can quit." For my family, college was not something one did to get a job (although we definately were encouraged to think about that, too), but something one does to become more educated. I am very sorry someone ever pointed out the finances of the situation to my oldest. It didn't help, in his situation.

 

I understand that for some people this would be good thing. But in many cases, it isn't.

 

-Nan

[Karen in CO]

I think it is a shame that American high school students do not graduate with opportunities to become apprentices. They are rarely able to speak several languages as are their counterparts in other countries. This leads me to wonder: is the problem that too many students in the US attend college or is the problem that our high schools are insufficient, thus requiring our students to attend post-secondary programs?

:iagree:

I think that there should be viable alternatives for kids. Not going to college because of the cost is one thing, but then what? Neither of my sister's two oldest have gone to college. Both are living at home and working minimum wage service jobs because there are no other alternatives for kids in the US with a high school education. My son's friends who did not go to college are all living at home with their parents, working part-time service jobs because that is the best work they can find. They are saving money so that they can get an apartment together and finally move out, but none of them have job prospects. Our parent's generation had better options. We need to have some sort of better path for our kids.

 

Lets not even talk about all the kids I now know with shiny knew college degrees and no job prospects either. No significant work experience. No desire or ability to go to graduate school. No opportunity in the fields they thought they were looking towards when they entered college.

 

Skilled labor. Skilled trades. Apprenticeships. Some sort of a path from childhood to viable jobs and adulthood is lacking in the country. College isn't to blame. Our education system doesn't produce students who can compete on a global scale and our economy does support skilled trades or create nearly enough jobs.

:rant: Okay - I'm done now. Back to my cubicle.