s/o the fine line between "rigor" and "storming out in a huff"

[rwjx2khsmj]

I think there is a fine line between "rigor" and "what the child will do without storming out in a huff." :001_smile:

Julie

 

When you get to that fine line and step across it unawares, how do you procede?

 

My dd 10 informed me tonight that she is no longer doing Latin. I informed her that she didn't have a choice in the matter. We talked later about why I think Latin is important and why she thinks it is a stupid dead language. We reached no resolution.

 

When you step from rigor and are moving toward huff, what do you do?

[buddhabelly]

I'm not familiar with First Form Latin, but is it fun at all? Latin for Children, Minimus, and Latin Prep Book One (which moves quite fast for a 10yo so it would be better for your older one) are all quite fun in their own quirky ways. Do you get to have any light moments with First Form Latin?

 

And I really don't know the answer to your question. My son says (most days) that he wants to go to school. He didn't say that today when we were snuggling between each lesson, though.

 

Julie

[5LittleMonkeys]

Keep in mind, I am only speaking in a "from my own experience" stand point.

 

I can't force learning. If my dc hates a subject to the point of defying me I know it's time to make a change. In the beginning this happened a couple of times so now I include them in choosing all of their curricula. Mine are much more inclined to stick with something when it was their decision to purchase it.

 

Could you sit with your dd and ask her what specifically she doesn't like about the Latin? If it is the style or the format perhaps you could tweak it. If it is just that she doesn't like doing Latin period then you have to ask yourself how much is she really going to learn if she hates it. However, if you absolutely insist she learn Latin then put the ball in her court. Tell her she must learn Latin but she can choose how she learns it. Have her write down what she wants out of a Latin program and then help her research to find one that fits the bill.

[rafiki]

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[MamaT]

I am facing this for the first time with my 12yo dd. My oldest three, all boys, just did the work I gave them and did not really want any input on what I chose.

 

My dd is a different story. We have switched Latin programs already for her this year and are considering switching science as well. She absolutely hates Apologia General Science although she is making A's on all the tests. She wants to do Story of Science and I am considering it. I just am not sure when to draw the line and say, "You will do this."

[elegantlion]

When you get to that fine line and step across it unawares, how do you procede?

 

My dd 10 informed me tonight that she is no longer doing Latin. I informed her that she didn't have a choice in the matter. We talked later about why I think Latin is important and why she thinks it is a stupid dead language. We reached no resolution.

 

When you step from rigor and are moving toward huff, what do you do?

 

My ds has been negotiating everything since he could talk. He gets it from his daddy. (needless to say we plan on doing lots of logic) :001_huh: I explain a lot to ds why we(me) are choosing which subjects. He understands some about our educational philosophy as a family. I also try to tie what he has learned into real life. He collects playing cards (Pokemon, Magic, Yu-gi-oh) he thinks its cool when he finds a card that has a name of something we've studied.

 

I make sure I place an importance on each subject and that it is visible to him. About 3-4 x per year I ask how he feels about each subject. He's never short an opinion. I changed plans a few times based upon his suggestions, but it was a group decision. The decision was never made based upon his refusal to do the work.

[Tenaj]

For me, the line is crossed when I realize that I'm spending more time with disciplining than on a subject. My third child hates, hates, hates Latin and I fought through about three or four years but we weren't making any progress AT ALL. I finally realized that it was damaging our relationship and we dropped it this year. We are both much happier with our lives :) My compromise with him is that we are doing a Latin Root study instead and it's working out very well. We may try again later in his school career, I haven't decided.

 

Are there any other issues that are causing your daughter to not like Latin? I finally realized that with my son, he was frustrated with Latin because he is a terrible speller. Because of the spelling issues, he just could not do his written Latin work with any accuracy. Sometimes I need to be hit up-side the head before I realize something so basic! He couldn't spell in English and I was trying to require him to do writing in a foreign language. It was a recipe for disaster.

 

I have to remind myself that I never had Latin and had a fairly successful life - LOL, then I read WTM and found out that everyone HAS to learn Latin. Yes, it's a good thing to learn, but it is possible to survive and even thrive without it.

[8filltheheart]

 

Are there any other issues that are causing your daughter to not like Latin? I finally realized that with my son, he was frustrated with Latin because he is a terrible speller. Because of the spelling issues, he just could not do his written Latin work with any accuracy. Sometimes I need to be hit up-side the head before I realize something so basic! He couldn't spell in English and I was trying to require him to do writing in a foreign language. It was a recipe for disaster.

 

 

 

My kids rarely object to any school work unless they are overwhelmed or underwhelmed by it. Typically the mistake is on my part for not being more aware of their actual abilities and I have caused frustration b/c I am expecting too much or have bored them by placing them below skill level.

 

If Latin is something that you feel is vital to your household's educational standards, I would try to find out if there is an inner conflict of some sort with the child. You can also make it "time-limited" course.

 

My 8th grader is very math/science oriented and has always struggled more with LA. He is on his third yr of French which he only tolerates......he does not like it. However, he understands that he has to have foreign language credits to pursue the level of education he desires and by working little bits over the last 3 yrs he is making it more feasible for him to succeed in those high school credits.

 

Our approach has been to make French a 30 min course. He sets the timer for 30 mins and when the timer goes off, he is done for the day. Not ideal......but French is not necessary for an 8th grader. ;)

[rwjx2khsmj]

Thanks for all the ideas. I'd scheduled time for teacher-student conferences anyway so I made sure that dd 10 and I spent time talking about Latin.

 

Discovered that it's not the Latin, it's that Latin is usually the last thing of the day because only dd 13 and dd 10 are required to be there. It's easier to turn the youngers loose so I can focus on Latin with the olders. Dd 10 doesn't feel old enough to miss out on the play. We are going to try Latin right after lunch and see if that helps.

[IsabelC]

We haven't got as much experience as you, since our eldest is only 6 and we haven't introduced Latin yet. But what we tend to do it mentally put things into groups of:

A - stuff that is crucial and not negotiable. They do it, like it or not. (eg sit down and strap themselves in when we're driving)

B - stuff that we strongly encourage them to do. We won't actually force them to, but we make it clear that it is expected. (eg brush their teeth)

C - stuff that we'd like them to do, but if they decide not to that's OK. We explain why we are suggesting something and leave them to decide. (eg wear warm clothes on a cold day)

 

The other day, 6yo ds told me he didn't want to do reading. He quoted the Declaration of Human Rights and claimed that me insisting on at least 10 minutes of reading per day constituted slavery :lol: I explained why he needs to learn to read, and when he disagreed with my reasons I just said that while he is free to choose never to read when he grows up, it's my responsibility to teach him now so that he has choices later on, therefore it's not negotiable.

 

I don't know about others, but for me Latin would fit into the list of things that are very nice to have, but not such a big deal as, say, math or writing. In your position I would try some more discussion about it, try to figure out what her problem is and whether there is some way her preferences can be accommodated. Then I'd ask her to try it for a bit longer before deciding to quit. But if she still absolutely doesn't want to do it, I'd probably just let it go and give her other options such as substituting a modern language.