My freezer smells like gas. Would you throw everything out?

[Perry]

I called Whirlpool customer service, and her first question was "Have you been doing any staining or painting?". Well, yeah, we're replacing all the carpet with wood floors and painting almost the entire house, so it smells awful in here. Apparently the VOCs concentrate in the freezer. I was all set to throw everything out and my husband laughed at me and pointed out that we will have been breathing the stuff in for an entire week by the time we're done. Breathing it is probably worse than ingesting it. Now I want to go stay in a hotel for a week.

 

The food doesn't taste funny. WWYD?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would not throw out anything that is covered - jars with bottles, tupperware or other containers with lids, etc. I would throw out anything that is in an open container or is just lying there (if there is anything like that).

 

Do you have an air cleaner? I would run it in the rooms that are most affected - on full power.

[tex-mex]

Yikes. :confused:

[Amy loves Bud]

I would probably throw it out, but that's based on maternal guilt, not on anything scientific.

 

We used all low VOC paints from Benjamin Moore and had our floor guy use water based stain and poly for our floors when we remodeled last year after our water leak. If it really bothers you, you can go to those options for the work you have remaining.

 

The hotel sounds good, too. :001_smile:

[Perry]

 

We used all low VOC paints from Benjamin Moore and had our floor guy use water based stain and poly for our floors when we remodeled last year after our water leak.

I'm really annoyed with the paint situation. I had to make a choice between low VOC paint that contained an antimicrobial, or regular VOC paint without the antimicrobial. SW doesn't have a quality low VOC antimicrobial-free paint.

 

I had no idea they were adding biocides to paint. They've probably been doing it for awhile but just recently started to advertise it. Adding biocides to household products is a huge pet peeve of mine, so I went with the VOCs. I wish I'd had more time to research it and see if I could find the right combo. I'll know better next time.

 

 

I'll ask about the water based stain/poly tomorrow. Thanks.

[Amy loves Bud]

 

I had no idea they were adding biocides to paint. They've probably been doing it for awhile but just recently started to advertise it. Adding biocides to household products is a huge pet peeve of mine,

 

Why? Because of resistance issues? I'd like to know more about this. I don't know if the Benjamin Moore had the antimicrobials in it, because I never thought to ask. :glare:

[Mommyof4ks]

Whoa, wait, what???? We just painted most of our house with SW low VOC paint. Should I be concerned? I have a kid with cancer, we can't play with things that may hurt him.

[Perry]

Why? Because of resistance issues? I'd like to know more about this. I don't know if the Benjamin Moore had the antimicrobials in it, because I never thought to ask. :glare:

Yes, resistance issues.

Most of the independent studies I've seen have shown no health benefits, but there is potential for risk. Seems to be a big marketing gimmick to me.

 

 

Here's a snip from a letter in Journal of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy.

 

Owing to the links between biocide resistance and antibiotic resistance outlined above there is a real risk that widespread biocide use could exacerbate the already worrying trend towards increased antimicrobial resistance in clinically relevant organisms. The problem is that we do not yet know how great the problem is, or even if a problem exists. There are no good epidemiological data on the impact of biocide use on antimicrobial resistance, and our knowledge of the prevalence of antimicrobial resistance is still poor. In order to understand and control biocide and antibiotic resistance it is essential that more effort is put into surveillance so that we can understand the impact of the use of antimicrobial agents on the epidemiology of resistant organisms.

[Amy loves Bud]

Yes, resistance issues.

Most of the independent studies I've seen have shown no health benefits, but there is potential for risk. Seems to be a big marketing gimmick to me.

 

 

Here's a snip from a letter in Journal of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy.

 

 

Ugh. Thanks. I'll have to check out the paint cans in the garage tomorrow.

[Mommyof4ks]

Oh, I get it. That just makes no sense really. How many people get sick from touching germy walls anyway? This is the issue I am having looking for quartz counter tops. They all contain microban something or other. They are so pretty and solid so they don't trap germs easily.

 

I would throw out the food, but then I worry too much. ;)

[melissel]

This is the first I've heard of this!!! I find it so totally disturbing :confused: Thank you for pointing it out for us. I would never have thought to research that aspect of new paint purchasing. (And I have no idea what I'd do about the food--I'd probably do just what Jean said.)

[plain jane]

This is the first I've heard of this!!! I find it so totally disturbing :confused: Thank you for pointing it out for us. I would never have thought to research that aspect of new paint purchasing. (And I have no idea what I'd do about the food--I'd probably do just what Jean said.)

 

This is the first I've heard of this too. :blushing: Thanks ladies, for the information!! It couldn't have come at a better time. Dh and I were just getting ready to repaint the entire house. :eek: I'm definitely going to spend the better part of the next week researching paint- and here I was thinking we had the tough part over with when we finally agreed on a color.:tongue_smilie:

 

 

I would probably throw it out, but that's based on maternal guilt, not on anything scientific.

 

:iagree:with Amy. Perry, I'm not knowledgeable enough to give you good advice, but after doing some follow-up reading this evening, if I were in your shoes, I'd be getting rid of the food in the freezer as well. :( Ours is huge, and I'd probably cry, but I'd do it, especially since my kiddos are all still so young. Thanks to your post, I hopefully won't find myself in the same situation. I'm sorry you are faced with this dilemma, but thank you again for asking this.

[Perry]

A couple comments about antimicrobials--

 

We originally planned to replace the exiting carpet with new carpet, but quickly learned that all carpet pads available to us have Microban. You can order pads without Microban from specialty companies but it's expensive and the carpet places we were working with expressed concerns about quality. So we went with wood, which was my first choice all along.;)

 

When I went to buy paint, I didn't realize they were adding antimicrobials. I had to make a decision right then, because there were people at home waiting to paint. Like I said, I wish I would have had time to look into it.

 

I've read about it a little this morning, but I don't know anything about paint so it's hard to evaluate the information. From what I gather, fungal and algal contamination has always been a significant issue, and in the past heavy metals have been added as antimicrobials. Heavy metals are clearly toxic and have been replaced by newer generation fungicides and algacides. That seems reasonable to me. I am wondering if low VOCs make paint more susceptible to contamination, and that is why the low VOC paint has biocide, but I can't find the information anywhere.

 

What I strongly object to is the addition of an unnecessary antimicrobial, like Microban. As dwkilburn1 pointed out, does anyone really get sick from touching the walls? Although it turns out that the paint I bought doesn't have Microban, other paint companies are beginning to use it. I just don't believe that there is any real benefit, and the companies are playing on the fears of the public. I doubt if biocides pose any risk to an individual, but I worry about long term public health issues from antibiotic resistance resulting from massive use of these products.

 

Mainly I object to it on principle. I'm not convinced there is a benefit, there may be significant risk, and I think the companies promoting it are being irresponsible.

Household Antibacterial Product Use May Promote Microbial Resistance

Edited October 26, 2009 by Perry

[elise1mds]

When will companies learn to leave well enough ALONE???

 

:banghead:

 

Thank you.

 

:rant:

[OHGrandma]

A couple comments about antimicrobials--

 

We originally planned to replace the exiting carpet with new carpet, but quickly learned that all carpet pads available to us have Microban. You can order pads without Microban from specialty companies but it's expensive and the carpet places we were working with expressed concerns about quality. So we went with wood, which was my first choice all along.;)

 

When I went to buy paint, I didn't realize they were adding antimicrobials. I had to make a decision right then, because there were people at home waiting to paint. Like I said, I wish I would have had time to look into it.

 

I've read about it a little this morning, but I don't know anything about paint so it's hard to evaluate the information. From what I gather, fungal and algal contamination has always been a significant issue, and in the past heavy metals have been added as antimicrobials. Heavy metals are clearly toxic and have been replaced by newer generation fungicides and algacides. That seems reasonable to me. I am wondering if low VOCs make paint more susceptible to contamination, and that is why the low VOC paint has biocide, but I can't find the information anywhere.

 

What I strongly object to is the addition of an unnecessary antimicrobial, like Microban. As dwkilburn1 pointed out, does anyone really get sick from touching the walls? Although it turns out that the paint I bought doesn't have Microban, other paint companies are beginning to use it. I just don't believe that there is any real benefit, and the companies are playing on the fears of the public. I doubt if biocides pose any risk to an individual, but I worry about long term public health issues from antibiotic resistance resulting from massive use of these products.

 

Mainly I object to it on principle. I'm not convinced there is a benefit, there may be significant risk, and I think the companies promoting it are being irresponsible.

Household Antibacterial Product Use May Promote Microbial Resistance

 

Something is wrong with your link.

[Perry]

Something is wrong with your link.

Fixed it, but apparently you need an account to get the article, so I'll copy and paste:

July 3, 2008 — Antibacterial product use may lead to decreased susceptibility to other antibacterial ingredients and antibiotic resistance in the home, according to the results of a study reported at the 2008 Annual Conference on Antimicrobial Resistance held in Bethesda, Maryland.

"Quaternary ammonium compounds (QACs), such as benzalkonium chloride [bZK], are broad-spectrum antimicrobials that have been widely used for decades to disinfect environmental surfaces in clinical and industrial settings," presenter and lead author Allison Aiello, PhD, MS, an assistant professor of epidemiology at the University of Michigan School of Public Health in Ann Arbor, told Medscape Infectious Diseases. "With increasing use of cleaning and hygiene products containing QACs in the home, there is a valid public health concern that biocide resistance may emerge in the community environment," she said.

"Antibacterial consumer products leave residues on home surfaces, exposing bacterial species to low levels of the agent and creating conditions favorable for development of resistance to both biocides and antibiotics." Dr. Aiello said. "Currently, reports examining the relationships between biocide use and bacterial resistance among isolates from the community setting are limited. The purposes of the present study were to assess the effect of antibacterial product usage in the home environment on the susceptibility to QACs and to examine the possible correlation between QACs and antibiotic resistance among bacterial isolates sampled from the hands of study participants."

In this study, 238 households were randomly assigned to use either antibacterial or non-antibacterial cleaning products. At baseline and 1 year later, 645 bacterial isolates, including gram-negative and staphylococcal species, were isolated from hands of participants and tested for minimum inhibitory concentrations to BZK, triclosan, and several antibiotics.

...

 

 

For all species combined, there were no significant differences between assigned product use and BZK susceptibility. After 1 year, however, for all species combined, there was an association between decreased susceptibility to BZK and triclosan (odds ratio [OR], 2.18; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.44 – 3.29) and between decreased susceptibility to BZK and antibiotic resistance to a combination of several antibiotics (OR, 2.45; 95% CI, 1.38 – 4.36).

"Our study reports, for the first time, a significant relationship between use of a common antibacterial cleaning agent ([bZK]) and cross-resistance with antibiotics and another antibacterial ingredient (triclosan) in the household setting," Dr. Aiello said. "The results of our study suggest that the growing concern over the emergence of cross-resistance between biocides used in the household and clinically used antibiotics is warranted."

A study limitation noted by Dr. Aiello is that the concentrations of biocide tested in the laboratory were much lower than concentrations recommended for home use. However, there have been reports in some clinical settings of diluting these products, although whether this practice occurs in the household setting is unclear.

"Diluting could lead to lower levels of the biocide, which may be an important factor in selecting for antibiotic resistance," Dr. Aiello said. "There has been little research on how effective these surface and floor biocides are for reducing infectious illnesses in the home environment. Given that there may be a potential risk related to antibiotic resistance, we need to conduct further research on the potential benefits to accurately define the public health importance of these products."

....

 

 

Dr. Aiello and Dr. Scott have disclosed no relevant financial relationships.

2008 Annual Conference on Antimicrobial Resistance: Abstract S5. June 23–25, 2008.