Everyday Math is ruining my "mathy" son!

[Sue G in PA]

This kid flew through Singapore last year and was almost into 4A (he was in 3rd grade). Okay, so he wasn't particularly advanced but he "got" math. He liked math. He could do most problems in his head. Math was just "his" subject. Well, now, he is in 4th gr. in ps and they use EM. Blech and double blech. :glare: Hate it, hate it...always have and always will. My son now HATES math. He is not being challenged and yet the "new" topics that are being introduced are not being taught efficiently so he comes home not "getting" it at all. And don't even get me started on the spelling program there (Rebecca Sitton). The word lists have no rhyme or reason to them (this week: oh, important, hot, please...and some other words). :001_huh: I'm so frustrated. My son doesn't want to do Singapore after school b/c he is tired and yet I feel if I don't continue with it he will eventually fall behind. KWIM? And then there is my 6th grader...also using EM. He does well with EM, but is not being taught to understand it...just little tricks to figuring problems out. So when I ask him "why" he is doing the problem a certain way he can only tell me that "the teacher said to do it that way". Blech. So, I have MUS for him, which he thrived on last year but again...he's in no mood to do "extra" math after school is over. HELP?

[Mesa]

Oh no! Our school district uses EM as well. I dont afterschool (full time homeschool.) but I did think of enrolling them part time this year. This is what I was going to try to do.

We would work on math on the weekends (double lessons), holidays, and summers. It is what we'd HAVE to do. I had a few subjects in mind to afterschool.

 

I would explain your need to do this (extra school) to your children. Maybe they'll see the need for the additional schooling as you (we) do?

[BabyBre]

Sue, is dh still the obsticle to homeschooling even part-time? I would absolutely freak, too, if my mathy ds7 ended up in this situation! That's the whole reason we started homeschooling - because I watched ds16's love of learning get sucked right out of him in ps.

 

Our ps uses Rebecca Sitton, too, and I'm right there with you on the word lists and the bizarre and often grammatically incorrect dictation sentences. On the bright side, since the words aren't hard for dc, we can skip studying them in favor of our own spelling words. I always make sure we discuss the sentences. It's become a game that we try to figure out what's wrong in them or better ways they could have been worded!

[Sue G in PA]

Breann, dh isn't really the obstacle. He sees and hears exactly what I do. But now...it's my son who really enjoys school. I doubt he would be very agreeable to coming back home. AND, he isn't very cooperative about afterschooling either. Plus, I don't have any more money allotted for curriculum for ds9...all I have for him is his Singapore math, possible some Science, and "maybe" spelling? Ugh...thanks for the sympathy.

[lgm]

I pointed out to my sons that they LIKED Singapore Math and it would be to their benefit to continue. I shamelessly offered a reward for each chapter completed to sweeten the pot. We did a section when we had spare time..usually beforeschool and weekends/vacations/half days. When we had less time we'd do a problem or two from Ed Zaccaro. They still like math and enjoy m.s. math club despite the horrible elementary school experience. One likes math enough that he declined the rewards...it made him happy to understand and learn rather than endlessly memorize algorithms and the situations in which they apply.

 

If mine complain they are too tired, I send them for a nap. Sometimes they really are tired and they are much happier after an hour. Before school always worked better though for elementary ages, as the brains were ready for learning and they were up and moving about 2 hrs before bus time. Wkends, holidays, and summers worked better once sports is in the daily mix.

[Pippen]

Hi, I'm new here and I'll add in some more sympathy for you. My 3 have been in public school until this year when I pulled out my youngest for 5th grade and all have gone through Everyday Math. #2 has never had any trouble with it, except for becoming quite indignant when they started teaching the partial sums algorithm in 2nd grade because he thought he'd invented it and they were ripping him off. :-)

 

It's interesting that you mention this at your son's age because my #1 and #3 never really loved math but always did well until running aground--both in 4th grade. For #1 that came in the form of his starting to really bomb chapters that had sections he didn't understand. For #3 it was sheer boredom because of the slow pace and repetitive nature of the review (necessary as her class had many struggling students) and by the year's end her grade had dropped from A+ to a mid-B and her attitude was in the basement. What I found with those two of my kids is that for the most part they did well when they had strong teachers and they became really frustrated with math when they didn't.

 

Since this was planned as a one year pullout for her, I opted to do EM for 5th grade. (She also likes many things about school and wants to return for junior high, but we chose to finish up her elementary at home instead of leaving her there with all the behavioral problems.) You have hit the nail on the head about what are, IMO, the main problems with it: there is such an emphasis on recyling/reviewing old material and while that has benefit, it doesn't leave enough room for the repetition many students need to master the new concepts. I always wondered why teachers were sending home so many supplemental worksheets and now that I see the full package, it's because the extra practice many kids need just aren't included in it anywhere. There are no daily written warm-ups to review the previous days' materials, nor are there comprehensive review sheets for each unit to review for tests. However, there are more Math Box review pages than I could possibly do in a chapter. I frequently write short warm-ups for my daughter and add in a comprehensive review sheet and it has made a world of difference.

 

What did help #1 a great deal was that in 4th and 5th grade whenever he was struggling with a chapter I would write up a big review sheet near the end of the chapter with lots of practice problems. I don't know why it's not included in the package (some chapters have them but they're brief), and even when he had strong teachers they weren't consistent with it. After going through that and making corrections I would write him a practice test. I can't say it was a good time for either of us but while he wasn't going to tolerate extra daily math from me, I could strong-arm him into a session or two with me. Sometimes I would take him to the bookstore cafe where he didn't dare throw a public fit. :D

 

Good luck--I know how frustrating this is.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Pippen

[MyFourSons]

When I was a student teacher, the school district I was in switched to this program. The teachers in my school were so overwhelmed and hated it and thought it was too time consuming. My mentor basically handed math to me and I taught it all semester. I went to the training seminars and everything as part of my student teaching, and I think that it is a program that benefits struggling learners, but only if they start in 1st grade with the program. I was in a first grade classroom, and the activities did a great job instilling number sense and place value, which is so vital. I loved it, my students enjoyed the games and I set up the math partners so the stronger students were helping the struggling ones on particularly hard topics. This meant that the smart kids weren't so bored because they had the challenge of "teaching," and the other students enjoyed playing with another student instead of the teacher harping on them. We do the mental math every morning and all the morning activities, such as taking the temperature, etc, and would use our tool kits to play games every day and then review concepts with our math boxes. All together we probably spent and hour and a half on math, and you really do need to do everything to see progress. I can see how this would be so frustrating and unrealistic if you didn't have a student teacher or TA to help out.

 

The spiral curriculum was really a problem for the teachers in the older grades, as was mentioned before they didn't think there was enough review to allow for mastery. Now, in the overall program, they claim that you are spiraling the same concepts all 6 years, and so mastery isn't needed right away. This really bothered the more veteran teachers. In first grade, the only real concept we felt wasn't covered enough was time, so we supplemented. But other than that it had enough review for the first grade level.

 

The company representative had a lot of great data and test scores showing that districts who implement the program have made such improvements, but I really do think it depends on who is teaching it. I love spiral curriculums, for some kids they work very well, for my ds8 it does not. He hates it. My ds7 however loves to do a variety of problems in one sitting. I personally also love teaching spiral curriculums, so that may be why I enjoyed it, but for a teacher who does not think that way it would be a hard sell, and the teacher's attitude has a LOT to do with how successful a curriculum is.

[Sara R]

Sue, does he have significant Everyday Math homework after school? If so, can you negotiate with the teacher to substitute Singapore for that? I've had some success in having my daughter do Rod and Staff math homework instead of the Investigations math games DD brings home, just because we are too busy after school helping older kids with homework to play math games. And if the teacher won't negotiate, and you have to choose between one or the other, would skipping Everyday Math homework be horrible for his grade? Elementary school grades don't matter that much, except as they signify learning, and learning would be increased by substituting Singapore Math. But you might not want to set that precedent. Something to think about, anyway.

 

If he doesn't have significant Everyday Math homework, maybe you could assign him a Singapore Math exercise each day. Usually those exercises are pretty short, and it's not unusual for most kids at that age to have 15-20 minutes of math homework. Or you could work with him for a few minutes before school. I'm having DD do 10 minutes of math (as much oral as possible) before school. She goes through a Rod and Staff lesson every 3 days or so, which keeps most of what she knows fresh in her mind, and slowly teaches new topics.

[Sue G in PA]

He is usually able to finish his homework in school so he doesn't typically bring math hw home. I do make him do a lesson of Singapore on those nights and although he complains...he will do it w/out too much complaining. I'm just going to keep doing that I suppose. Trouble is...he is way far ahead of his classmatess and I feel like his days are a waste of time. He is the kind of kid who won't complain something is too easy...he just goes with the flow...he's a bit "lazy" in that way. Doesn't like too much of a challenge so school is "a blast" for him right now. Waste of time if you ask me. I'm likely pulling him next year.

[MBM]

My son doesn't want to do Singapore after school b/c he is tired and yet I feel if I don't continue with it he will eventually fall behind. KWIM? And then there is my 6th grader...also using EM. He does well with EM, but is not being taught to understand it...just little tricks to figuring problems out. So when I ask him "why" he is doing the problem a certain way he can only tell me that "the teacher said to do it that way". Blech. So, I have MUS for him, which he thrived on last year but again...he's in no mood to do "extra" math after school is over. HELP?

 

My son's former school used EM. We switched schools because we felt it was too weak. The school he's at now uses Glencoe Math, which I think is better.

 

We did Singapore as well as the school's math curriculum. (Ds, a seventh-grader, still does a separate math program at home as well as the school's.) If you can get your son to do two lessons on both Saturday and Sunday and then just one more sometime during the week, that should help to make it a bit more bearable. It is easier to do this now than to have to do remedial work later.

 

We had our son do math first thing in the morning on weekends. I was empathetic toward his feelings but told him that it was just something he had to get done. Now it's a habit, and he likes doing it.

 

Good luck, Sue.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Ugh! I feel your pain. Even though my kids are only in K and 1st, I cannot stand this Everyday Math. 1st grader has spent the first 7 weeks of school learning how to make tally marks and counting pennies, nickels and dimes. When do they learn to add and subtract? Kindergartener has counted just about everything in our home.

 

Newsflash, EM! My kindergartener has been able to count for a couple of years, now. And first graders don't need 3 months to learn how to make tally marks. Most of them get it after a week. Learning how to count by 2s, 5s and 10s isn't that difficult, either. Kids pick it up fairly quickly, and do not need to do "home link" pages on it for 2 months. MOVE ON!

 

Sorry to hijack your thread. I just wish they would stop using the ridiculous math experiment in schools!

[Sue G in PA]

I think THAT is my biggest beef with it. It is sllllooooowwwww. Ds11 loves it. They spend forever on a topic and I think it is designed so that you do NOT spend forever on the topic. You cover it and then move on, eventually coming back to it. Which, is NOT a good way to learn math, but that's the concept of EM. So, ds11 has been in school for 2 months now and has learned box and whisker plots and exponents. Ds9 has learned absolutely nothing new. Period. Oh...sorry...mean, median and mode. He did learn that. ugh.

[cylau]

You should look at this website:

http://ednews.org/articles/one-step-ahead-of-the-train-wreck.html

 

I have heard so much bad things about EM, but after reading this, I have determined never, ever let ds get close to EM in his life.

[Pippen]

I think THAT is my biggest beef with it. It is sllllooooowwwww. Ds11 loves it. They spend forever on a topic and I think it is designed so that you do NOT spend forever on the topic. You cover it and then move on, eventually coming back to it. Which, is NOT a good way to learn math, but that's the concept of EM. So, ds11 has been in school for 2 months now and has learned box and whisker plots and exponents. Ds9 has learned absolutely nothing new. Period. Oh...sorry...mean, median and mode. He did learn that. ugh.

 

I think what is really compounding the problem are the NCLB requirements for standardized testing. Teachers and schools are being held accountable for all student populations achieving certain levels on achievement tests and my daughter complained of the teachers going over concepts over and over and over again while she caught on quickly and just sat there. At least for most of we've experienced, in math "individualizing instruction" is mostly only happening for the struggling kids because few teachers (understandably) can handle doing it all with such large classes.

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks for sharing that article, Cindi. Dd12 had EM back in 1st - 3rd when she attended ps. Luckily, we pulled her out then and I've had the past 4 years to teach her using appropriate math texts. She's now in a Pre-Alg. class that is all review for her simply b/c they would not place her in Alg. 1....another story on another thread :glare: Ds11 has had problems with math and was just getting his "math legs" using MUS when we (well, my dh) decided to put him back in ps. Ds9 used Singapore quite successfully and now is finding math at school "easy" b/c he knows it all. For him, it's playtime. I am always appalled at the hodgepodge of topics my son's bring home. Box and whisker plots one day, exponents the next and then some ridiculous algebra that didn't make sense even to me! Ugh. Now, I find myself in the position of this father...trying to stay one step ahead of the trainwreck called EM. And my ds fight me b/c they "are doing fine" with EM...yet can't tell me the "why" behind a problem. :glare: Yet I push forward.

[momtoboys]

Everyday math is one of the huge reasons I don't have my son in our local public school. My friend's kids had EM, and they are struggling with traditional algebra now.