Is anyone using MFW also doing their n/b WTM style?

[Mommy7]

I have a 7th grader doing MFW RTR with the rest of us this year. This is the first time I've used MFW. We are definitely enjoying it!

 

The only thing is, I want to incorporate the WTM style of outlining, etc. for my 7th grader's history notebook. I was considering using one day a week to do this. Fridays are always light w/ MFW...practically nonexistent. So, I thought maybe I could use that time to teach my daughter how to outline. But, I wasn't sure how to do it in that short of a period of time. I read that the Kingfisher Illustrated History of the World (white cover) is the easiest to use to learn outlining. Would you agree? I own the red Kingfisher, but I keep reading that it is difficult to outline from. I definitely want something to help make it easier.

 

Also, we have never done narration. Should I do a year of gradual evolvement from narration to outlining? Or just jump in with the outlining?

 

I know that we are also supposed to be doing narrations for books being read....how do I get to the point where she can do a one page narration for an entire book? Should we do WWE or something first?

 

So, how do I make the transition? Do I just use the pgs in WTM that tell how to do it? ( I hope these questions don't sound ignorant, but I am really new to the WTM way of doing things.) I also thought about using my R&S English 5 to teach the outlining before diving in. Any ideas?

 

I really want to make sure she is well prepared for high school level writing and history. I know I will need to beef up the history area. I could just use some wisdom about how to do that.

 

Does anyone out there use the WTM way while also doing MFW? If so, how do you go about doing it? Please share...I would so appreciate it. :)

Edited October 4, 2009 by Mommy7

[sassenach]

I just started applying WTM goals with my 7th grader in earnest this year. We are using Winterpromise ancients, and this is what I'm doing.

 

She has scheduled reading 3-4 days a week out of Usborne Encyclopedia of Ancient History. I have her write down 4-6 facts for each section.

 

She also has 1-2 scheduled sections from Oxford First Ancient History. It's a more conversational style text. I have her choose 1 section to outline each week. Right now she is doing a one level outline. I am going to progress her through the 5th grade and 6th grade WTM goals this year, and save the 7th and 8th grade goals for next year. Next semester, I'll have her do 2 level outlines. I walked her through the outline the first 2 times and she's been fine on her own since.

 

 

 

I have a 7th grader doing MFW RTR with the rest of us this year. This is the first time I've used MFW. We are definitely enjoying it!

 

The only thing is, I want to incorporate the WTM style of outlining, etc. for my 7th grader's history notebook. I was considering using one day a week to do this. Fridays are always light w/ MFW...practically nonexistent. So, I thought maybe I could use that time to teach my daughter how to outline. But, I wasn't sure how to do it in that short of a period of time. I read that the Kingfisher Illustrated History of the World (white cover) is the easiest to use to learn outlining. Would you agree? I own the red Kingfisher, but I keep reading that it is difficult to outline from. I definitely want something to help make it easier.

I'm not sure about the kingfisher choice. Doing it on Friday sounds like a good plan. I would do it with her the first few times.

 

 

Also, we have never done narration. Should I do a year of gradual evolvement from narration to outlining? Or just jump in with the outlining?

We jumped right into outlining. It hasn't been hard at all.

 

I know that we are also supposed to be doing narrations for books being read....how do I get to the point where she can do a one page narration for an entire book? Should we do WWE or something first?

I haven't started written narrations yet. I would recommend doing oral narrations with whatever materials you are already using. Then you can bridge that to written. Isn't MFW Charlotte Mason? I would think that she would be getting narration work through that. I am not making the 1 page summary of an entire book a focus for us. I am using IEW Ancients to walk her through the writing process, which includes research papers. I think the main skill needed to enter high school is to be able to take a multitude of sources and report on a single subject. My goal for dd is to be able to sort out the important info from the unimportant. I think outlining is a big part of that skill.

 

 

So, how do I make the transition? Do I just use the pgs in WTM that tell how to do it? ( I hope these questions don't sound ignorant, but I am really new to the WTM way of doing things.) I also thought about using my R&S English 5 to teach the outlining before diving in. Any ideas?

I have no experience with R & S. What curricula are you currently using for LA and writing?

 

 

[Mommy7]

Shannon, thank you so much for your response. I knew there had to be more people than just myself in this boat of transition.

 

For LA, we are using Shurley and 2 Progeny Press Guides. We are also using VFCR. For writing, we have just started Writeshop. She loves it...right down her alley...she's a gifted writer.

 

I like the idea of using this year for the 5th & 6th yr goals and then next for the 7th & 8th grade goals. That seems just right.

 

MFW is a blend of different things, but, yes, the LA they choose are Charlotte Mason in style...I went with my own thing, though. I am using MFW for the Bible and History sections. I am new to MFW, but so far the notebook pages have just been very non-challenging for a 7th grader. Not that I want it hard, but I want to be progressing towards the WTM way. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to go about that.

 

I'm not familiar with WinterPromise...is the reading you assign to her in addition to other time spent on history? That is my other concern. My 7th grader already has a pretty full schedule. I don't want to overload her too much. She is battling some health issues.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Mommy7

[dhudson]

You know, MFW uses the SOTW student sheets in 1850 - MOD to help teach outlining and I have to say that my 7th graders is really getting it. You could look into the student pages for SOTW year 2 and add that to (or instead of the narrations).

[sassenach]

Shannon, thank you so much for your response. I knew there had to be more people than just myself in this boat of transition.

You're welcome! I spent the summer reading the logic section of the new WTM over and over again. It really took me awhile to decide on a course of action.

For LA, we are using Shurley and 2 Progeny Press Guides. We are also using VFCR. For writing, we have just started Writeshop. She loves it...right down her alley...she's a gifted writer. I'm not familiar with any of those. If she's a gifted writer, then I think you've already won 90% of the battle. It's just a matter of giving her the tools to fine tune.

 

I like the idea of using this year for the 5th & 6th yr goals and then next for the 7th & 8th grade goals. That seems just right.

 

MFW is a blend of different things, but, yes, the LA they choose are Charlotte Mason in style...I went with my own thing, though. I am using MFW for the Bible and History sections. I am new to MFW, but so far the notebook pages have just been very non-challenging for a 7th grader. Not that I want it hard, but I want to be progressing towards the WTM way. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to go about that.

I hear you. I have no idea if this is the right way to go about progressing, but it's something!

I'm not familiar with WinterPromise...is the reading you assign to her in addition to other time spent on history?

No, all of the outlining and fact finding come from books that are already in her schedule.

That is my other concern. My 7th grader already has a pretty full schedule. I don't want to overload her too much. She is battling some health issues.

 

What are your spines for MFW? Is there one or two that you could use as your source material?

 

Best of wishes with the health problems. It's tough to know when to push and when to give slack.

[cbollin]

Not sure this is the same thing exactly... I'm half asleep on a very rainy day/night... so hoping this makes sense..

 

with a 7th grader in RTR, they usually do reports based on the topics in Streams of Civilization that are at the beginning of chapters. So as your 7th grader does the occasional report, you might end up having opportunities for more notebooking and outlining that way. I remember using Streams for outlining practice ,and write paragraphs from key word outlines as part of our notebooking. That was separate from RTR manual.

 

but agreeing with Christina and Dawn -- you can outline the SOTW chapters once you in that part of RTR.

 

-crystal

[Mommy7]

I think I'll use SOTW. We'll be starting that mid-year. That way it wouldn't put an extra burden on her with extra reading.

 

Are the student pages for SOTW the same as the activity book? I had considered getting the activity book to help with narration stuff.

[dhudson]

Yes, the student pages are the same as the activity pages. We really enjoy them along with our MFW studies.

[Julie in MN]

I am new to MFW, but so far the notebook pages have just been very non-challenging for a 7th grader. Not that I want it hard, but I want to be progressing towards the WTM way. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to go about that.

 

Can't you just use your notebooking pages to step it up for your 7th grader? I know for my son, I've always added different notebook pages to MFW as I saw fit. You could just use the already-scheduled notebook pages or add more, and either way you could have her outline what she was going to write about.

 

I'm always for using what I have already planned to save myself work :)

[Mommy7]

Julie, that is exactly what I am trying to decide about. The whole notebooking thing is new to me. I wasn't sure how to beef it up...suggestions as to how to do that???

[Julie in MN]

Julie, that is exactly what I am trying to decide about. The whole notebooking thing is new to me. I wasn't sure how to beef it up...suggestions as to how to do that???

 

I guess I fell in love with notebooking as an excellent method of learning right in the beginning, so I guess it doesn't feel hard to me any more.

 

First of all, does your 7th grader type? My son does his notebooking on the computer. Then he uses Google Images to add pictures & maps and such. (I try to have him credit his sources by copying the link locations, too.) He also fiddles with fonts and print size and such.

 

I don't remember the exact notebooking assignments in RTR, but I don't think this was an actual assignment. I had my son write a page on Augustus Caesar after reading the whole ACW book. It's sort of an outline of the book? It's still on my computer, so I can copy-paste. It's "sort of" a loose outline of the whole book. We also loosely worked on grammar & spelling & such, but as you can see I didn't push it to the Nth degree. Remember, he was a 5th grader so my requirements were looser than for his 7th grade notebooking...

 

Augustus Caesar

First Emperor of the Roman world (27 BC - 14 AD)

 

Augustus Caesar was known as Octavian when he was a kid. He had an uncle named Julius Caesar that was killed because he was becoming king. Octavian thought he should be the heir of Julius because Julius said so. So then Octavian had to go to Rome to get his money from Antony. While he was there, remember he’s the heir, so he tried to get the people to like him.

 

This took place while he was Octavian.

 

 

Octavian was trying to be king against Antony. They switch back a forth having the people on their sides. Octavian's sister married Antony just to make peace. Antony and Octavian divided the lands and Antony got the east side and Octavian got the west. Antony chose the east because it was calmer and the people didn’t really want to fight him.

 

This took place while he was a general.

 

 

Octavian received the new name Augustus Caesar. Then there was a new MONTH named August (jee wiz I wonder where that came from). Augustus made Virgil write the Aeneid. There are twelve books of the Aeneid and each of the books have 8,000-plus words! All of them have to rhyme, they all have to have a tune to them, and he has to tell everything that happened. That’s a lot of work!!! Here’s why he made him write the Aeneid:

He wanted to become famous (because in the Aeneid it says he will be king).

And because he wanted to bring back the Roman religion.

 

This took place when he became Augustus.

 

 

Jesus was born in this period of time. And also…another god was born. Augustus became a

Yes you guessed it

A GOD!!!!!! (Cool woowoowoohahaha music).

Yes so basically one part of a god and God was born.

The reason Jesus was born in Bethlehem was actually because Caesar was making everyone go back to their hometown so they could count how much tax to charge.

 

This took place when he became a god.

 

 

In this period Augustus became old and died but before that he received some weird stuff, like one of his general’s head. And some knots about his kingdom. He had his will and Tiberius was going to be king. This is not where most stories end but we’ll end ours at when Augustus dies, quietly, and quickly.

 

This took place when he was old.

 

So ends our story about Augustus Caesar.

 

 

Does that help you visualize the fact that you can use notebooking in many ways? It's a tool you can use to teach whatever skills you want your child to work on.

 

Also, in 7th grade I found it necessary for my son to start taking notes while he listened. I suppose that's a sort of outlining of the main points as well as interesting details. I was expecting longer notebook pages, with more facts. And the method he preferred was taking notes while he listened rather than going back & re-reading/outlining.

 

If I was more into outlining, I would have fine-tuned the process, but I'm more of a big picture gal, with a focus on overall ideas & connections.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Julie in MN

[Mommy7]

Thank you. That is very helpful. I appreciate you taking the time to put your son's notebook page in there! :001_smile:

[Donna A.]

Agreeing with Julie. One thing I've had my oldest dd do to beef up the notebooking had to do with Book Basket. I might select a chapter book or biography from the Book Basket list and assign it to her, then have her write a summary of it for the notebook similar to what Julie's son did. Or I might choose a variety of books from Book Basket, including picture books, historical-factual type books... anything from which they could easily "browse" and glean some new information. I'll put the stack of carefully chosen (by me) books on the table and have my dd's (plural, as I've had both my older girls do this) find at least one new piece of information that she didn't already know about that topic and notebook about it. This can be her own creation: a written summary, tracing a picture, a free-hand illustration, whatever. You can adjust as needed for the child.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I will have children in grades 2,6, and 7 next year (2010-2011) and I'm trying to plan for them for ancients.

 

I'm considering using MFW as our history together while using History Odyssey Level 2 Ancients for my older children. This is the componant that might help with notebooking.

 

I'm think we would also use IEW's Ancient themed writing since we're using the early American history themed writing this year with success.

 

And.... just for fun, maybe the cd's from Diana Waring would be a way to tie these things together.

 

I'd LOVE to hear responses for combining MFW and HO. Is this too much or could these blendwell for combining grammar and logic levels together? Is HO Ancients level 2 enough for 7th grade?

[Donna A.]

I will have children in grades 2,6, and 7 next year (2010-2011) and I'm trying to plan for them for ancients.

 

I'm considering using MFW as our history together while using History Odyssey Level 2 Ancients for my older children. This is the componant that might help with notebooking.

 

I'm think we would also use IEW's Ancient themed writing since we're using the early American history themed writing this year with success.

 

And.... just for fun, maybe the cd's from Diana Waring would be a way to tie these things together.

 

I'd LOVE to hear responses for combining MFW and HO. Is this too much or could these blendwell for combining grammar and logic levels together? Is HO Ancients level 2 enough for 7th grade?

 

I personally think it's too much. Adding the Waring CDs would be okay if you wanted to listen to those on the side, but MFW CTG is complete. Streams is one resource used in CTG, for parents/advanced students, and you could assign your 7th grader additional research assignments from there if you wanted. Doing IEW's Ancient themed writing wouldn't hurt since you'll have to have something for writing, anyway. But don't lots of folks use HO all by itself? I don't know anything about HO... just that I've seen it mentioned a lot, and it sounds like it's a complete history program all by itself?

 

Remember that you also have Book Basket in CTG which will add a LOT of extra reading.

[Donna A.]

P.S. Notebooking is done CTG, as well. She has instructions for how to set up your notebooks, the mapwork, timeline, etc. And as I said, if you feel your 7th grader needs more than what's assigned, I would just assign more biographies to be read, more written narrations, and take a look at the comp questions at the end of each unit in Streams. There's a lot there that a Logic age student can do.

 

Plus if you're doing IEW.... that should be enough.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Thanks, Donna!

 

Any other thoughts?