How do you do your planning once you get to logic stage?

[HappyGrace]

It just requires more Socratic discussions and the types of things you can't plan very far in advance.

 

I'm trying to make things more integrated and streamlined, not just do subject after subject. So I'm planning on things like reading GWG 5 for myself and integrating the concepts into our dictation that I pick from our lit, etc. I have an advanced learner who is a rising 4th grader but definitely in logic stage thinking, and I'm trying to make up more of an integrated gifted type curriculum. I'm comfortable with doing this; just not sure how to do the planning-daily, weekly? I can't really do it far ahead like I usually do because I'll need to draw from wherever we are in our lit books, etc.

 

Once you know what books you want to use, where do you go from there with planning the particulars?

 

If this makes sense to anyone, and you have a comment as to how you plan your logic stage studies, please chime in!

[NancyNellen]

We switched to a 4 day week last year, making Mondays our fun extras-type day. We have our discussion times on Mondays. There are still times when we need to stop and discuss during the week, but much of the discussion of reading can be done on Mondays.

[HappyGrace]

So you read all week and discuss only on Mondays? I like the idea of a day set aside for this-makes it less overwhelming.

 

How do you plan what you'll discuss-by making notes as you read it yourself? Do you give them a heads-up on what the discussion topics will be so they can prep? Or is it just free-flowing conversation about what you read?

[Colleen in SEVA]

:lurk5:

[Paula in PA]

:bigear:

[NancyNellen]

Yes, having Monday free from regular academics allows us to concentrate on that type of thing. So far we've done free-flowing conversation. But this year I am feeling like I need to make it a bit more regimented, especially since I am unfamiliar with a number of the books. I am still working out how to do that.

[Rhondabee]

I listened to SWB's Great Books as History CD about a month ago, and she said to divide up your spine to a number of pages per week, then check out one non-fiction book and one fiction book to read and narrate from each week.

 

(I think this recording was made *before* the rec about "taking notes" from the spine and outlining from another source. Just guessing.)

 

So...I started by typing out the routine in the new WTM:

 

*****

 

History Pattern:

 

1.Read a section (or two) from the core text and list six to eight important facts in complete sentences.

 

2.Mark all dates on the time line

 

3.Find the region under study on the globe, on the wall map, and in the atlas

 

4.Do additional non-fiction reading from the library, encyclopedia, Story of the World, or primary sources

 

5.Outline 5-6 paragraphs (working up to 10-12 paragraphs) from an additional history source each week.

 

6.Prepare compositions for notebook (totaling one page of written work each week) choosing from the following topics:

 

Notebook Sections:

 

1.Outlines

2.Great Men and Women

3.Wars, Conflicts, and Politics

4.Inventions and Technology

5.Religion

6.Daily Life

7.Cities and Settlements

8.Primary Sources

9.The Arts and Great Books

 

*****

 

Then, I made a "checklist" which is not tied down to "days of the week", but will help us work through this routine - and allow us the freedom to "camp out" if ds does happen to get really into something. (Well....a mom can hope, right?) Because there are no dates or weeks attached, all I have to do to go on "just read the spine" mode, is x out the written work listed underneath each spine entry until we get "caught up". (The programming probably won't show up here. It is very obvious which entries are the spine entries on my ds's list.)

 

I decided against my old stand-by OOP Kingfisher for outlining, and I'm a little worried about that! We're using the Usborne Internet-Linked Ancient World instead. But, I am excited that this will get us to the library (I plan to go every Tuesday) and it will teach *him* how to find his own resources. (And, he'll always have SOTW-1 here, as well. He did say he really wants to go through it again, since he'll understand it so much better this time through.)

 

I worked in the WTM literature recommendations as best I could, following the advice on the Great Books CD. And, I tried to have some weeks where *he* will have to find a literature book. (I fully expect that at some point our lit and history won't be so neatly matched, but I would like to have covered the related history *before* reading a book. I think my older DS would have better enjoyed some of his logic stage lit if I had been more particular about that.)

 

The beginning of my list is bit more mom-directed so I won't post that here, and I only did half the year since this is a *very* new and untried system for us, but here is an excerpt:

 

*****

USB pp. 6 – 9 – Mesopotamia and Sumer

 

Time Line

 

Wall map, globe, and atlas

 

Non-fiction: (search: Mesopotamia)

 

Outline

 

Reports

 

Primary Sources:

“Sumerian Schools for Scribes”

“The Story of the Great Flood”

 

 

Literature: Read a version of Epic of Gilgamesh from the library

 

Literature: Myths and Legends, “Pyamus and Thisbe”, pp. 13-18

 

 

 

USB pp. 10 – 13 – The Egyptians

 

Time Line

 

Wall map, globe, and atlas

 

Non-fiction: (Religion: pyramids, mummies)

 

Outline:

 

Reports:

The Pharaohs of Ancient Egypt pp. 3-74

Biography: Cheops

 

Primary Sources:

“An Egyptian Father's Advice to His Son”

 

Literature: Tales of Ancient Egypt

 

USB pp. 14 - 15 – Indus Valley

 

Time Line

 

Wall map, globe, and atlas

 

 

Non-fiction: (Indus Valley)

 

Outline

 

Reports

 

 

Literature: (“India, folklore”; or myths/folktales here)

Note: We will be doing Indian myths/folktales again, so don't think we need to do them all this week!

 

 

 

 

USB pp. 16 – 19 – Megalithic Europe

 

Time Line

 

Wall map, globe, and atlas

 

Non-fiction: (Stonehenge)

 

Outline

 

Reports

 

 

 

*****

 

The topics in parentheses after "Non-fiction:" are the search terms which brought up good choices in our library on-line search engine. I'll never forget my older DS's disappointment after searching for over an hour to find information on Stilicho and finding *nothing*. So, I am helping guide this DS's searches until he says, "OK, Mom, I can *do* this!"

 

 

Probably TMI, but hope that helps!

Edited July 28, 2009 by Rhondabee
should be "Usborne IL Ancient World" - basically the ancient history portion of the world history book.

[HappyGrace]

Rhondabee-thanks so much for typing that all out! What you have done is similar to what I've already done-coordinate the spine/lit/other resources, etc. for each week. I am not totally following wtm recs, plus with her being young, I'm keeping outlining light.

 

I'm printing out your post for guidelines-thanks! I like how you are transferring some responsibility over too-searches, picking lit, etc.

 

Now I have to figure out how to work the discussion into this-trying to work in discussing lit from a Christian worldview, lit analysis/terms, etc.

[TulaneMama]

rhonda fantastic information! We are newly into the logic stage and I was had the same questions as the PP. How long do you see your list stretching out in terms of time? months? and i am unclear as to what the primary source is? I thought your usborne book was your primary history source (we are using both usborne and KF). Could you explain please? And the outline will come from the USB correct?

 

what guidlines for reports do you all have?

[Saille]

I, too, am trying to wrap my head around primary sources vs. history texts as spines.

 

:lurk5:

[Rhondabee]

A few answers:

 

We are using the Usborne as our "spine" for history. This is the book that we'll read through, basically from beginning to end, and then use as a spring-board for our "research". It's the book that you figure out how many pages you want to cover each year, and divide by the number of weeks you want to do for school (SWB suggests 36 weeks, but I always use 30 or 32, knowing that some weeks history won't get done). That tells you about how many pages to cover a week.

 

(tho, truthfully, I didn't worry about this so much. I just grouped the pages by what looked like they went together.)

 

*IF* I switch back to using the OOP Kingfisher, then I wil have him outline from that. However, the Usborne does not consistently have paragraphs which lend themselves to 3-level outlining. And, even though we will start the year with 1- and 2-level outlines, it is important for him to see how more meaty and "mature" essays are written. So, we will not use the Usborne for outlining. We will look for passages within the non-fiction books that are 4-6 paragraphs long. Or, if that's too difficult to find, we'll outline an encyclopedia article or part of SOTW.

 

I'm not certain what SWB does, but I'm not planning on having my ds read the non-fiction "extra" reading straight through, necessarily. But, I will have him skimming the TOC and Indexes for the information that interests him - and maybe reading about the same topic in more than one book. (Just want to be sure no one thinks he'll be outlining whole books - LOL!)

 

The primary sources are snippets of things (literature, laws, speeches, letters) that were written in the time period being studied. All the ones I have listed on this excerpt I found in a high-school level history book by Spielvogel called "Human Odyssey". You can usually find this used on Amazon for less than $10, if you're interested. You could also use (and I probably will) the Mammoth Book of How It Happened (?) recommended in WTM, or the free internet site listed in WTM as well - look in the book list at the end of the logic stage history chapter.

 

There are questions listed in the WTM logic history chapter that you can use when you're reading and evaluating any primary source. You could have your child just answer these questions instead of outlining or narrating on a primary source. (The answers will basically *be* a critique.)

 

Discussions....If you pre-read your spine, you will be fine. I pre-read the spine as I plan. Then during the school year, at least with my older ds, I would read through his outline or narration, and use that as a springboard for discussion. No real rhyme or reason as to what questions I asked. Just the basic reporter's questions. And, sometimes at dinner, DH would ask what they had learned at school that day. Always, the most interesting things were history and science, and so they were talked about then as well.

 

I think the discussions are more a fruitful give-and-take if you use a spine and extra reading that are well within your child's ability to comprehend. If you choose a spine that will really stretch your DC (and sometimes that's a good thing), you will probably be spending much more one-on-one time than with an easier spine, and so the "discussions" may be more you explaining what the spine says in a way that your dc can understand - but in doing so, you will be transmitting a part of yourself as well, and that's good discussion, too!

 

(For example, if I wasn't worried about being sure that my 4yoDD doesn't get pushed out of my schedule this next year, I would have opted for the OOP Kingfisher. I think doing the KIHW would really help my ds's thinking level rise drastically, but I know that doing that would require much more mom-time.)

 

Ah - I see you mentioned lit discussions, not history (blush!). I highly, highly recommend that you read the novel section of WEM, though the same questions are in WTM. Just start by having dc answer 2-3 questions orally (WEM will guide you to which are the most basic), and add questions 1 or 2 with each book, requiring oral answers. Try to have dc quote the book in his/her answer. Until your dc is comfortable with answering the questions orally, just continue doing written narrations of lit books (just a page). Once the discussions are flowing well, then have him try to answer one of the evaluation questions instead of narrating. (All this is on the Great Books CD, which is only $5 at Peace Hill Press - another highly recommended resource!)

 

To me, reports depend so much on what your child has learned from his writing program. If you've only covered how to write a paragraph, then just require paragraphs. Only, do require that he apply what he has learned in writing to his reports. Check WTM for the actual amount of written work. For example, for 6th grade, it says not to expect more than one report if your dc is writing one-page reports. So, I will require one page. That could be all on one thing, or divided up among 2-4 things. Sometimes (like once we reach Greece), I know I will slow down to get in all the biography reports I want.

 

I have planned out through Greece in the Usborne Ancient World book. I think that will get us through January - maybe into February. I really don't know. It's a little more than half-way through the book. I'll probably end up squishing the stuff between Greece and Rome.

 

Best wishes to you all!

Edited July 28, 2009 by Rhondabee

[Colleen in NS]

It just requires more Socratic discussions and the types of things you can't plan very far in advance.

 

I'm trying to make things more integrated and streamlined, not just do subject after subject. So I'm planning on things like reading GWG 5 for myself and integrating the concepts into our dictation that I pick from our lit, etc. I have an advanced learner who is a rising 4th grader but definitely in logic stage thinking, and I'm trying to make up more of an integrated gifted type curriculum. I'm comfortable with doing this; just not sure how to do the planning-daily, weekly? I can't really do it far ahead like I usually do because I'll need to draw from wherever we are in our lit books, etc.

 

Once you know what books you want to use, where do you go from there with planning the particulars?

 

If this makes sense to anyone, and you have a comment as to how you plan your logic stage studies, please chime in!

 

I plan like this: I go over/teach skills in the mornings. So, we go through the math lesson, the grammar, the Latin, quickly the vocab, any memory work, and any reminders on how to outline/narrate and picking something to outline/narrate about. Then I send ds off to complete any written work (math problems we didn't do orally, grammar diagrams we didn't do orally, Latin exercises we didn't do orally - usually trans. from English to Latin, vocab exercises that are fill-in-the-blank, and whatever writing assignment ds has).

 

(and I know you commented on my writing plan thread, so I won't go into detail about that) Suffice it to say, we have a writing assignment pattern each week that we use to process *some* of the week's reading/discussing. And I think that pattern will help us to talk about a variety of topics before he writes about them. And, I do move forward chronologically in history and lit., using KF/SOTW correlation and the WTM lit. lists. We also move from topic to topic within one branch of science each year, using a spine to do experiments and bounce off from for reading. I just try to roughly get an idea of how many pages to cover each week to finish the content-book in a year, but it never all gets covered and I'm fine with that. I try to touch on things here and there that I see getting skipped over, but I let ds read and write about what interests him.

 

After lunch ds has two hours in his room to finish any written work, and to read (any science or history or lit. I've assigned, plus lots of supplemental and free choice reading). He also might do his timeline dates or a science sketch or make a list of history facts from his history spine reading during this time. But reading is the main focus of this time.

 

Then afternoons are for things that don't require intense thinking. Logic (OK, that's intense thinking, LOL, but it's fun for us), art skills, lit. discussion/any-type-of-reading discussion, typing, read-to-me, write a letter, fun projects, crafts, baking, play with microscope, learn to run a business, playing outside (trying to make this an everyday one).

 

So, in short, my way of streamlining is to do skills in the mornings, and read/discuss/dabble/play/exercise in the afternoons.:D