Honest TOG question

[herbalgirl]

I hope I can articulate this clearly! :)

 

I am doing SL core K right now. Each core deals with different timeperiods in history, and it isn't a 4-yr. cycle. So far, it is working excellent for my young kiddos. However, I find myself looking over to TOG for the future, for many reasons.

 

My question is this: Do any of you TOG users ever get bored doing the same history? Even if you only do 2 rotations through instead of starting in K and making 3 rotations, you still hit essentially the same exact World Book notes, topics, etc, on the next go around.

 

I understand that with a K-er doing ancients (Yr. 1) and a rhetoric level student doing the same, it will obviously be more in depth for the R student.

 

But... It is still the same "stuff"!

 

With SL, you might be going back over american history, but it is with totally different subjects within the scope of the amer. history and totally different books.

 

Does TOG still interest you when you come around for the next rotation?

 

I only lasted about 12 weeks with a 1st grader doing Yr. 1, as I found it lingered too long in Egypt, etc.

 

I understand different programs work better for others, etc, but I am honestly (with absolutely no snarkiness, please know!) asking if any of you deal with boredom from it?

[herbalgirl]

I also wanted to add that I really DO like the looks of TOG and would like to possibly use it in the future, but am afraid that we will get bored with it.

 

 

Maybe it isn't a valid concern?

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I haven't done more than one rotation so all I can add is that each level of TOG has new sets of books, new writing assignments, different evaluations, and the geography does expand into more information being needed based on age level.

[Leanna Tomlinson]

I hope I can articulate this clearly! :)

 

I am doing SL core K right now. Each core deals with different timeperiods in history, and it isn't a 4-yr. cycle. So far, it is working excellent for my young kiddos. However, I find myself looking over to TOG for the future, for many reasons.

I love TOG, but if SL is working right now, I would stick with it. As for the future, I think the rhetoric level is what makes me love TOG the most. I do enjoy the other levels, but I don't need all that TOG has to offer as much as I NEED the rhetoric level book selections, activities, discussions, etc.

 

My question is this: Do any of you TOG users ever get bored doing the same history? Even if you only do 2 rotations through instead of starting in K and making 3 rotations, you still hit essentially the same exact World Book notes, topics, etc, on the next go around. You are still hitting the same things if you are doing the same level, but your children will be at a different level for each rotation. The focus is different for each level. For example, the LG may focus on colonial life, while the UG does too, but adds in more info, at the same time the D level will be exploring more about colonial government, natural resources, and the founding of the colonies. R level focuses on the politcal and cultural backdrop that led to the American Revolution.

 

 

I understand that with a K-er doing ancients (Yr. 1) and a rhetoric level student doing the same, it will obviously be more in depth for the R student.

But... It is still the same "stuff"! I don't see how this would be different with ANY program. If you are studying ancients then you study Egypt, right? But you are not reading the same books or doing the same things in K as you study in 3rd, or 7th, or 11th. Each year is different b/c the level is different.

 

 

With SL, you might be going back over american history, but it is with totally different subjects within the scope of the amer. history and totally different books.This is exactly how it would be with TOG.

 

Does TOG still interest you when you come around for the next rotation?

I can't wait to get back to year 1 and study ancients:)...and that's coming from someone who absolutely dreaded it in the past.

 

I only lasted about 12 weeks with a 1st grader doing Yr. 1, as I found it lingered too long in Egypt, etc.Personally, I think it's better to start TOG when your oldest is in the 5th grade. You simply don't need all that TOG has to offer before then.

 

I understand different programs work better for others, etc, but I am honestly (with absolutely no snarkiness, please know!) asking if any of you deal with boredom from it?

 

TOG works great for our family, but I did not start it until I already had some rhetoric level students. I can't imagine anyone finding TOG boring. There is so much to do, you can't possibly cover it all in one rotation.

 

HTH,

Leanna

[BlsdMama]

Keeping in mind that I'm a brand new Tapestry user so my advice isn't even worth .02 lol... Remember that you're going deeper every time. You're whetting your appetite for the bigger course next time around.

 

;)

[Karenciavo]

It's not always the same topics. I just finished Year 3 and there were quite a few times when Rhetoric had European history while the younger students were focusing on American history. Even when the same country or subject matter is being studied the focus is different, not just more in depth.

[DeeFL]

however, yes...I did get a little bored. (We no longer use it, for other reasons though.) Yes, if you're only doing one level at a time, you'll be using different books, resources, etc. However, when we started, I had kids in differing levels, so the next time through, some were moved up to the level the older had done, so we were repeating some of the same stuff their sibling had done. Also, my kids remembered (usually fondly) using some of the resources. Sometimes it led to not wanting to do it again though. Often times, we were reading some of the dialectic resources together (the first time through) since my oldest wasn't the best reader. Plus it was easiest to "teach to the oldest." That, too led to them not always wanting to read through certain resources again.

 

Anyways, just another $.02. (Which upon reading again is really muddy. Sorry....long day!)

[siloam]

however, yes...I did get a little bored. (We no longer use it, for other reasons though.) Yes, if you're only doing one level at a time, you'll be using different books, resources, etc. However, when we started, I had kids in differing levels, so the next time through, some were moved up to the level the older had done, so we were repeating some of the same stuff their sibling had done. Also, my kids remembered (usually fondly) using some of the resources. Sometimes it led to not wanting to do it again though. Often times, we were reading some of the dialectic resources together (the first time through) since my oldest wasn't the best reader. Plus it was easiest to "teach to the oldest." That, too led to them not always wanting to read through certain resources again.

 

Anyways, just another $.02. (Which upon reading again is really muddy. Sorry....long day!)

 

Ahhh, I could see how if you thought to the oldest that could become a problem. I teach to the youngest reading LG out loud to everyone, then just giving my oldest some additional reading, thus I have lots of room to move up. It never dawned on me what a problem it might be if you were used to doing the opposite. That would be much closer to what the o/p would be doing because her kids are all young and all LG.

 

Heather

 

[irizarry4]

Reading through this thread with interest..... If we get bored revisiting a topic every 4 years, I can't imagine how boring it would be to be a school teacher who has to teach the same thing every year.... sometimes more than once a day. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think I'll take 4-year-cycle boredom :D

[herbalgirl]

Reading through this thread with interest..... If we get bored revisiting a topic every 4 years, I can't imagine how boring it would be to be a school teacher who has to teach the same thing every year.... sometimes more than once a day. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think I'll take 4-year-cycle boredom :D

 

LOL. :D Perhaps that is why I never chose teaching to be a career before I had kids! ;)

[herbalgirl]

It's not always the same topics. I just finished Year 3 and there were quite a few times when Rhetoric had European history while the younger students were focusing on American history. Even when the same country or subject matter is being studied the focus is different, not just more in depth.

 

 

Thanks for chiming in, Karen. :) That is really interesting (and gives me some hope!)

[irizarry4]

LOL. :D Perhaps that is why I never chose teaching to be a career before I had kids! ;)

 

:iagree: I'm with-ya! I did not choose to homeschool. God sort of hit me on the head with it. I still have a bump. :lol:

I've been reading this thread with interest because I'm starting TOG with my own dc in the fall.

[herbalgirl]

How old are you kids? As you can see from my signature, my oldest is 7. That is why I am concerned I might suffer from boredom if I were to use it right now.

[Melissa in CA]

OK, it's morning and I've yet to consume an entire cuppa coffee...but I don't see how the TOG boredom factor would be any different than SL?

 

You see, I used SL for years. We've completed Cores 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 100, 300, 400. Last year my youngest ds was due to head back to the ancients but I couldn't for the life of me endure another year of SL Core 6 after using it with older brothers. *I* had already read those read-alouds. *I* had already read those history books. *I* already knew that I didn't care for many of the books, and *I* remember my olders not caring for many of the readers. Frankly, *I* just couldn't bring myself to use Sl Core 6 once again. :tongue_smilie:

 

Now, if I only had one child, or children close in age who could use the cores together from the beginning, then this wouldn't be a problem. But if you plan to have more children down the line who will be using SL, you're going to deal with the boredom factor no matter what history program you use. I can tell you the main reason I decided to leave SL though. It wasn't the boredom factor, it was the lack of independent work factor.

 

My homeschooling philosophy changed after I had high schoolers who needed constant handholding due to me constantly holding their hands through each and every SL core. I didn't like that SL didn't (doesn't) offer any type of quizzing, testing, independent work, and that even in Core 400 (Core 400!!) I had to read the history books with them. I had to even read all of their American Lit books with them as SL did not offer any type of help in the teaching of American Lit. They pretty much expect you, the parent, to do the work with your dc so that you can discuss it, teach it. Uh, sorry, but that didn't fly well with me. I. do. not. know. how. to. teach. American. Lit. They offered me zero help. Zero. I did not know how to digest their Core 400 college level history texts either, so Core 400 was a total bust. I don't think they really learned anything.

 

So, all that to say, SL's high school Cores were a no-go for me, and I did not want to do them again. I also realized that jr. high is the best time to begin teaching a child to be independent and responsible for their own school. And that some form of accountability in attaining independence was in order. TOG fit that bill nicely. I left SL and haven't looked back. TOG may have more planning involved and is not as open and go...but it's soooo much more than SL.

 

Oh, and I also despised SL's TM's and Mapping. I can't imagine they could make them any more cumbersome than they are. TOG's year plans may seem huge, but they are organized very well, very simply. I am a visual person and SL's TM's made my eyes cross and my brain shut down. Oh, oh, oh...and my dc hated, hated, yes hated, John Holzman's writing assignments! He would tell them what to do, but not how to do it. And wordy....goodness where they wordy! Anyhow, not meaning to bag on SL, truly, but just to show a different perspective. I think SL has great books choices, not all of them, but most are good choices. But so does TOG. Especially their history books! So much more enjoyable than SL's.

 

All my opinion of course. ;)

[siloam]

OK, it's morning and I've yet to consume an entire cuppa coffee...but I don't see how the TOG boredom factor would be any different than SL?

 

You see, I used SL for years. We've completed Cores 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 100, 300, 400. Last year my youngest ds was due to head back to the ancients but I couldn't for the life of me endure another year of SL Core 6 after using it with older brothers. *I* had already read those read-alouds. *I* had already read those history books. *I* already knew that I didn't care for many of the books, and *I* remember my olders not caring for many of the readers. Frankly, *I* just couldn't bring myself to use Sl Core 6 once again. :tongue_smilie:

 

Now, if I only had one child, or children close in age who could use the cores together from the beginning, then this wouldn't be a problem. But if you plan to have more children down the line who will be using SL, you're going to deal with the boredom factor no matter what history program you use. I can tell you the main reason I decided to leave SL though. It wasn't the boredom factor, it was the lack of independent work factor.

 

My homeschooling philosophy changed after I had high schoolers who needed constant handholding due to me constantly holding their hands through each and every SL core. I didn't like that SL didn't (doesn't) offer any type of quizzing, testing, independent work, and that even in Core 400 (Core 400!!) I had to read the history books with them. I had to even read all of their American Lit books with them as SL did not offer any type of help in the teaching of American Lit. They pretty much expect you, the parent, to do the work with your dc so that you can discuss it, teach it. Uh, sorry, but that didn't fly well with me. I. do. not. know. how. to. teach. American. Lit. They offered me zero help. Zero. I did not know how to digest their Core 400 college level history texts either, so Core 400 was a total bust. I don't think they really learned anything.

 

So, all that to say, SL's high school Cores were a no-go for me, and I did not want to do them again. I also realized that jr. high is the best time to begin teaching a child to be independent and responsible for their own school. And that some form of accountability in attaining independence was in order. TOG fit that bill nicely. I left SL and haven't looked back. TOG may have more planning involved and is not as open and go...but it's soooo much more than SL.

 

Oh, and I also despised SL's TM's and Mapping. I can't imagine they could make them any more cumbersome than they are. TOG's year plans may seem huge, but they are organized very well, very simply. I am a visual person and SL's TM's made my eyes cross and my brain shut down. Oh, oh, oh...and my dc hated, hated, yes hated, John Holzman's writing assignments! He would tell them what to do, but not how to do it. And wordy....goodness where they wordy! Anyhow, not meaning to bag on SL, truly, but just to show a different perspective. I think SL has great books choices, not all of them, but most are good choices. But so does TOG. Especially their history books! So much more enjoyable than SL's.

 

All my opinion of course. ;)

 

Good point! There is also a lot more options in TOG, so you can move to using the alternates list if you were board with the first string choices. SL doesn't have an alternates list.

 

Heather

[BlsdMama]

I've been thinking about this and you also have to realize that no matter what curriculum you use for your kids for the next 12 years, it's ALWAYS going to be the same old history. :P

 

After all, every time you study the Ancients, it IS the Ancients. And Medieval isn't going to change. ;) The difference will be the materials you use and the depth in which you study a particular topic. And these things will change in each four year cycle.

[irizarry4]

How old are you kids? As you can see from my signature, my oldest is 7. That is why I am concerned I might suffer from boredom if I were to use it right now.

 

In case you were asking me... My children are 7 and 10. The oldest will be starting 5th grade. I plan on doing UG with ds10, and LG with my dd7. I will study the Rhetoric level myself while my oldest does Dialectic, so I am ready when they both get there. I am excited at the prospect of learning all of this myself. This is not the way History was treated at my school.

 

I would say, you can start now, but really treat it as a grammar level poll-parrot thing, almost a reading list. Your children are so young. Language seems to me far more important at their age than History. If your dc have good language skills they'll be able to devour ToG later. Just think of it, you get a whole year to get familiar with a year-plan of TOG, where most people have to do it over the summer.

 

Focus on putting up pegs where they can hang things their second time around. Don't read the teacher notes for the next level up, so you don't spoil it for yourself :-). This way, you will be familiar with the layout, the order, what's coming, when it really counts for your dc. ToG planning will be much easier for you, and you probably won't face the fog everyone talks about.

 

My 2 cents, coming from a total lack of experience. :tongue_smilie:

[Karenciavo]

How old are you kids? As you can see from my signature, my oldest is 7. That is why I am concerned I might suffer from boredom if I were to use it right now.

 

You may, but maybe not. I'm going into my 7th year of TOG, finishing up our 2nd time through (one year we did Year 3 and part of 4.) The plan is to go through it again with ds7, ds16 will be done this coming year and ds14 is going to Christian school so I guess he's done.

[herbalgirl]

No, Melissa, really... tell me how you REALLY feel! (joke) LOL!! :)

 

You do bring up some really good points that didn't occur to me before. Maybe I need to take up coffee drinking myself! ;)

 

I have my 7 and 5 yr. olds combined into core K right now, and am planning to combine the next two into a core together, but we know how plans go, right??

 

This is all great food for thought. Thank you so much everyone for posting on this thread!

 

 

 

 

 

OK, it's morning and I've yet to consume an entire cuppa coffee...but I don't see how the TOG boredom factor would be any different than SL?

 

You see, I used SL for years. We've completed Cores 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 100, 300, 400. Last year my youngest ds was due to head back to the ancients but I couldn't for the life of me endure another year of SL Core 6 after using it with older brothers. *I* had already read those read-alouds. *I* had already read those history books. *I* already knew that I didn't care for many of the books, and *I* remember my olders not caring for many of the readers. Frankly, *I* just couldn't bring myself to use Sl Core 6 once again. :tongue_smilie:

 

Now, if I only had one child, or children close in age who could use the cores together from the beginning, then this wouldn't be a problem. But if you plan to have more children down the line who will be using SL, you're going to deal with the boredom factor no matter what history program you use. I can tell you the main reason I decided to leave SL though. It wasn't the boredom factor, it was the lack of independent work factor.

 

My homeschooling philosophy changed after I had high schoolers who needed constant handholding due to me constantly holding their hands through each and every SL core. I didn't like that SL didn't (doesn't) offer any type of quizzing, testing, independent work, and that even in Core 400 (Core 400!!) I had to read the history books with them. I had to even read all of their American Lit books with them as SL did not offer any type of help in the teaching of American Lit. They pretty much expect you, the parent, to do the work with your dc so that you can discuss it, teach it. Uh, sorry, but that didn't fly well with me. I. do. not. know. how. to. teach. American. Lit. They offered me zero help. Zero. I did not know how to digest their Core 400 college level history texts either, so Core 400 was a total bust. I don't think they really learned anything.

 

So, all that to say, SL's high school Cores were a no-go for me, and I did not want to do them again. I also realized that jr. high is the best time to begin teaching a child to be independent and responsible for their own school. And that some form of accountability in attaining independence was in order. TOG fit that bill nicely. I left SL and haven't looked back. TOG may have more planning involved and is not as open and go...but it's soooo much more than SL.

 

Oh, and I also despised SL's TM's and Mapping. I can't imagine they could make them any more cumbersome than they are. TOG's year plans may seem huge, but they are organized very well, very simply. I am a visual person and SL's TM's made my eyes cross and my brain shut down. Oh, oh, oh...and my dc hated, hated, yes hated, John Holzman's writing assignments! He would tell them what to do, but not how to do it. And wordy....goodness where they wordy! Anyhow, not meaning to bag on SL, truly, but just to show a different perspective. I think SL has great books choices, not all of them, but most are good choices. But so does TOG. Especially their history books! So much more enjoyable than SL's.

 

All my opinion of course. ;)

[herbalgirl]

So true, Kelly! I guess I just didn't think of it in this way before. SL's catalog makes it seem like each core is something brand spankin' new and exciting. As you can see from my children's ages, I haven't had good sleep in years. Maybe that is starting to affect me?? :)

 

 

I've been thinking about this and you also have to realize that no matter what curriculum you use for your kids for the next 12 years, it's ALWAYS going to be the same old history. :P

 

After all, every time you study the Ancients, it IS the Ancients. And Medieval isn't going to change. ;) The difference will be the materials you use and the depth in which you study a particular topic. And these things will change in each four year cycle.

[HSMom2One]

10yo dd and I will be starting TOG for the first time this fall. She will be UG/5th grade and my only student. I was obviously persuaded to go this route, yet had the same question as the op in the back of my mind. I was kind of anxious and a little scared actually.

 

After reading this thread I made the best decision by deciding to go with TOG. I was very, very close to buying SL, but at the last minute decided to go with TOG instead. The points made by Melissa have completely resolved any tiny second thoughts I was having. What a relief!

 

So now I'm ready to jump in and enjoy the upcoming year. Too bad we have to wait until September to get started!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[herbalgirl]

Lucinda,

 

 

You are so welcome! At first, I felt kind of silly for asking this question, but it was a really honest one. :)

 

I also appreciated Melissa's observations. It put things in perspective. I don't know why I thought using SL would miraculously cure the problem, as I would do the SAME EXACT books when I redid the core with my younger kids...

 

Now, to save up for TOG! :tongue_smilie:

 

Let us know how TOG goes for your family. I always love to read about what works for everyone. That's why I love this board so much-so many thoughts and ideas!