Would you talk TJEd with me?

[vlshort]

I have been reading TJEd materials for the last few weeks. Very excited! I've begun educating myself, by reading classics on my own.

 

However, tonight (this morning!) I've read some very disturbing reviews/posts about it.

 

Anyone willing to re-visit this topic with me, and offer more discussion?

 

Here's where I am....

 

I've been homeschooling for 6 years (11yo ds, 7yo ds, 4yo ds), and for the most part my oldest professes to hate school, and the 7yo chimes right in with him, because that's what big brother says. There seems to be a struggle to get through school every day. My dh says if you keep doing the same thing, getting the same results, maybe its time to try something different. Basically I love school, they hate it.

 

As I've read TJEd, I've found some new ideas, some old. The idea of delight directed seems very familiar (I first heard this with Gregg Harris as well as Lifestyle of Learning). The concept of phases is not all that different from classical. The "ingredients" for the most part are ideas that I've heard from various sources, neatly listed here. All of these ideas resonate well with me, and I believe we're ready for a change.

 

But....

 

Has anyone really done this, and seen a significant change with their children? Has anyone done this and experienced a disaster?

 

It seems contradictory to "inspire not require", but yet still do some schooling of math, writing, spelling, etc in the core and lol phases. Those are the areas my kids hate - they love the history and science. So I can't expect to "inspire" them to do those core things. So it would seem if I'm forcing them to do those things, I'm undermining the whole philosophy.

 

I would appreciate any comments from those experienced with this. Also, any comments from anyone who questions this as a viable choice for evangelicals, and why.

 

Thanks for re-visiting this topic with me!

-vanessa

[LadyAberlin]

:lurk5:

[rafiki]

.

[Greta]

Please excuse me for interrupting the conversation, but what does TJE stand for? I couldn't find that on the abbreviations list.

 

ETA: The second I posted, I figured it out. Thomas Jefferson Education, right?

[Jane Elliot]

Bump...because I have friends who say it's no different from WTM and I haven't read the book (TJE) and am not inclined to, but I wonder if that statement is true.

[Guest]

sYou might want to try asking at the www.ldfr.com disscussion boards. It is not a secular board but many of them use TJed and have done so for years. I haven't read it but my impression from reading posts of people who have is the only similarity is reading Classic books.

[mom2abcd]

I haven't read the books, but did I hear that you make lists of required reading (and math) and they must complete each level before progressing on to the next? I've thought that might appeal to kids who want to move up to the next grade or whatever.... to see the list of requirements. (Are the lists in some book or do you make them up yourself?)

 

But I've also heard parents aren't to require the kids to learn anything they don't want to. How would that work? LOL Our kids would NOT be well-rounded.

 

I'd love to hear how you get a non-motivated thirteen year old to be self-directed.

 

Andrew Pudewa supposedly bases his educational paradigm on the TJE ideas.

[kdeno]

:lurk5:

[HappyGrace]

Hi kdeno! I am :lurk5: on this one too! :D

[yslek]

I read the book a while back and was really excited by it, but couldn't really get my mind around how to really implement it. I ended up buying a bunch of other products (pamphlets & a CD set) from the deMilles in the hopes that it would clarify everything. After about 6 months of trying this (and my family putting up with me) I came to the conclusion that this was not for me, or not for my family, or I was missing something.

 

Around the same time, I did some reading about Thomas Jefferson, especially his early years and his education. I think the term "Thomas Jefferson Education" as the deMilles use it is a misnomer. Thomas Jefferson had a pretty rigorous classical education starting at an early age. His studies with George Wythe in his teens were during his university years. Maybe "A Benjamin Franklin Education" would have been a better title! Anyway, it made me feel like they took a fanciful idea, hyped it up, and then marketed it. The fact that they have the main book, some other books, (over-priced) pamphlets, CDs, etc. to buy to get the "full" picture is irritating to me as well.

 

So...I went back to a WTM model, and since reading LCC, have combined the two. My kids don't currently love school, but they are getting a solid grounding, and even now I see glimpses of joy when they hear something that they are familiar with.

 

I'm not saying that TJED is bad or doesn't work. It seems to be working quite nicely for the deMilles (hope I'm spelling that correctly :tongue_smilie:). But it's not for my family, and it wasn't the way Jefferson was educated either. ;)

[mindygz]

I read the book a while back and was really excited by it, but couldn't really get my mind around how to really implement it. I ended up buying a bunch of other products (pamphlets & a CD set) from the deMilles in the hopes that it would clarify everything. After about 6 months of trying this (and my family putting up with me) I came to the conclusion that this was not for me, or not for my family, or I was missing something.

 

 

This is where we spent the last year and a half. We've now "abandoned" any pretense of doing TJEd, and are back to our original plan of doing WTM. I think a lot of the principles are good and can be applied while doing a classical education, but my husband and I recently decided that TJEd was too scarce on executables. On so many TJEd forums, people are asking, "How do I do this?" and so many other people say, "I don't know how to do it, either." We needed more than that. I think that a lot of people end up merging the philosophy with classical education and still call it TJEd, at least that's the impression I've gotten from some blogs and such.

 

Anyways, I don't know that I'm much help. Just wanted to chime in my agreement that it is something that can be really frustrating to actually execute. It's hard to be always second guessing yourself, which is what I was doing.

 

FWIW...

Mindy

[PollyOR]

I read the book a while back and was really excited by it, but couldn't really get my mind around how to really implement it. I ended up buying a bunch of other products (pamphlets & a CD set) from the deMilles in the hopes that it would clarify everything. After about 6 months of trying this (and my family putting up with me) I came to the conclusion that this was not for me, or not for my family, or I was missing something.

 

This sounds like me. I liked what I read and attended seminars, but I was never able to wrap my mind around it either. I needed more structure? My sister successfully uses it.

[PollyOR]

http://www.tjed.org/

This would be a great place to start. This site is run by a family that has been using TJed for 5+ years.

 

http://www.tjedonline.com/

This site is owned by the DeMille's.

[Debbie in OR]

Like some of the other posters, I read a couple of their books and liked the basic philosophy but I got sidetracked with the "How do you pursue delight driven education and still have a rigorous education?" My kids, at least at this point, would not be self-motivated to do a full day of learning on their own. Not when there are bikes to ride and tennis games to play :D. Anyhow, here's what I took away that I like:

Self-teaching: this was probably the main thing I took away from TJED...they are big on setting the example of life-long learning. You have to focus on your own education and your dc will observe and follow along. I have to say, I have seen this in our house....when I start carving time to just sit on the couch and read my own books instead of leaving it for bedtime, the kids will just start showing up with their books in hand, reading as well. I know this was true of my own life growing up: my dad has a Master's degree and Doctorate that he earned while I was at home. He LOVED learning and I watched him LOVE learning and it rubbed off on me without him having ever said a word about it.

 

Delight-driven studies: nothing new here but they go to an extreme with letting the child set the boundaries. We do this with parental boundary-setting.

 

Student Goal-setting: having the student set their own goals. Again, I think they are extreme with it so we do this with parent guidance. I'm not giving my ds the option of not doing math for the rest of his life. :lol:

 

Making your home a learning haven: this means keeping books, magazines, musical instruments, science experiment materials, maps, etc... out and in the open instead of hidden away. This is hard for me as I like our house uncluttered but I do see the value in it. When I leave art books or science stuff or music stuff or whatever, out on tables for easy access, my kids will pick them up and read or play with or ask questions constantly. It really is amazing. But, then there is the cluttered thing. Hard to balance for me. :glare:

 

There were several of my friends here who read the TJED books, too, and I would say this was the concensus for all of us: there is always something of value to be found but you have to sift and use what's going to work for your family. And, like someone else said, I did not like that you had to keep buying the next book in order to get the whole thing. After purchasing a second book (The Home Companion, which I think sums up the philosophy with more practical information), I stopped investing.

 

ETA: This is why I love Latin-Centered Curriculum philosophy: there is plenty of rigor but because it's efficient and not just busy, there is plenty of room for delight.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Debbie in OR

[PeterPan]

I bought and read good chunks of the TJEd Home Companion, since I figured the implementation part was more useful to me than the theory. It was definitely inspiring and thought-provoking, but it didn't make a real clear discrimination in age-appropriateness. You have an 11 yo, and if you do a bit of searching, you'll find that many people with 10-13 yo's are dealing with hormones. In other words, the educational approach may not be the problem.

 

I think delight-driven is great in theory, but it assumes a willingness or goodness on the part of the student that may not be reality. I wouldn't be surprised if my dd DOES exhibit some of that great willingness in a few years. But right now, with these growth spurts, waking up tired after 12 hours sleep (yes), etc., etc., I'm just not gonna bank on it. I'm going to shorter lessons, more breaks for physical activity, and lots of hugs.

[vlshort]

I appreciate all of the comments - sounds like a lot of us have read this!

 

After mulling over the comments and my own perceptions, I think the "sifting through" is what I'll probably do. There are a lot of very good (although not very new) recommendations that I think it's time for me to take more seriously.

 

But I think the biggest change for me is that I need to get down on the floor with the kids, participate in what they're doing, and even lead the way - to generate enthusiasm. No more doling out assignments, and then going off to do my own thing. I'll continue reading the books, especially the "ingredients", to glean what I can. I'll also back off of some of the more "schoolish" expectations for the younger ones.

 

I use TOG, and have one student in Dialectic. For him, I think I'll begin to allow him to pick and choose areas of interest within what we're studying, rather than racing through sooo much reading!

 

Thanks again!

-vanessa