Royal Fireworks Press

[Willow]

Has anybody used the Michael Clay Thompson Language arts? How are they to use? Any successes? Any failures?

 

Thank you

 

Willow.

[Spy Car]

:lurk5:

[Willow]

Has NO-ONE used this?

[Spy Car]

Yes, there is a following. You might search under MCT or MCTLA.

 

I'm strongly leaning in this direction based on current knowledge. But I've only seen samples and heard great things from my most trusted sources.

 

Bill

[swimmermom3]

:lurk5:

[Melissa B]

I'm eying it as well, but I won't buy anything for probably a year or so (I'm all set for now).

 

I wonder how easy it is to use (for me), and if it is textbooky. I generally don't care for texbooky.

 

It is not textbooky. But, it isn't really easy to use either.

 

It is sort of like SWB's Story of the World for language arts. It is basically a narrative style language arts program. The grammar and writing books have a story line and everything. The poetry and vocabulary books, while they don't have a story within them are still books you sit down and read with the child - rather than exercises like you would normally see in LA programs.

 

I think the grammar is excellent. MCT makes it all seem so fun and simple. His layout and explanation is the best I've seen and the practice books that go with the grammar program are great as well. I first started the program before the practice books were written and it was much harder for me to implement when I was trying to find my own sentences. The practice sentences increase in difficulty and even use vocabulary words from the vocab program.

 

I struggle with the writing program. The first book (Sentence Island) doesn't really have any writing in it. A few creative writing assignments. I like the layout of the next two books (especially Essay Voyage) but there isn't really any instruction. There are assignments and examples which are nice, but not really any writing instruction.

 

I like the vocabulary program. There aren't any look in the dictionary or fill in the blank type pages. It is basically reading - which is interesting, and memorizing the words/stems. My kids respond well to reading and memorization so the program works well for us.

 

I am on the fence with the poetry. I like it and it explains a lot, but I do not know enough about poetry to really take the program where it is meant to go. The poem recipes got the best of me. I would have to spend so much time trying to find poems to fit the recipes and would never be sure I had done correctly the poems we were analyzing. In order for the program to work for me I would need a teacher's "cheat sheet." I would need a book of recipes and poems already prepared that I could pull from as examples and even assignments.

 

I haven't decided what we will do for next year. We will definitely work through the grammar and practice book at the beginning of the year. We may skip the vocabulary since the girls are doing an online vocab progam. I think we will skip the poetry. It can only get more difficult for me as the program moves on. And we will probably do the writing program but wait another year for it. The last three levels of writing are different, in that each book only has four assignments. They are term paper type assignments: a research paper, an argumentative essay, etc. I don't think we are ready for those books yet, but I would like to work through them later.

 

Hope some of that rambling was helpful. The yahoo group for MCT users is fairly active and moderated by RFWP so you generally get good answers to questions about the curriculum. MCT also appears for explanations from time to time.

[Spy Car]

It is not textbooky. But, it isn't really easy to use either.

 

It is sort of like SWB's Story of the World for language arts. It is basically a narrative style language arts program. The grammar and writing books have a story line and everything. The poetry and vocabulary books, while they don't have a story within them are still books you sit down and read with the child - rather than exercises like you would normally see in LA programs.

 

I think the grammar is excellent. MCT makes it all seem so fun and simple. His layout and explanation is the best I've seen and the practice books that go with the grammar program are great as well. I first started the program before the practice books were written and it was much harder for me to implement when I was trying to find my own sentences. The practice sentences increase in difficulty and even use vocabulary words from the vocab program.

 

I struggle with the writing program. The first book (Sentence Island) doesn't really have any writing in it. A few creative writing assignments. I like the layout of the next two books (especially Essay Voyage) but there isn't really any instruction. There are assignments and examples which are nice, but not really any writing instruction.

 

I like the vocabulary program. There aren't any look in the dictionary or fill in the blank type pages. It is basically reading - which is interesting, and memorizing the words/stems. My kids respond well to reading and memorization so the program works well for us.

 

I am on the fence with the poetry. I like it and it explains a lot, but I do not know enough about poetry to really take the program where it is meant to go. The poem recipes got the best of me. I would have to spend so much time trying to find poems to fit the recipes and would never be sure I had done correctly the poems we were analyzing. In order for the program to work for me I would need a teacher's "cheat sheet." I would need a book of recipes and poems already prepared that I could pull from as examples and even assignments.

 

I haven't decided what we will do for next year. We will definitely work through the grammar and practice book at the beginning of the year. We may skip the vocabulary since the girls are doing an online vocab progam. I think we will skip the poetry. It can only get more difficult for me as the program moves on. And we will probably do the writing program but wait another year for it. The last three levels of writing are different, in that each book only has four assignments. They are term paper type assignments: a research paper, an argumentative essay, etc. I don't think we are ready for those books yet, but I would like to work through them later.

 

Hope some of that rambling was helpful. The yahoo group for MCT users is fairly active and moderated by RFWP so you generally get good answers to questions about the curriculum. MCT also appears for explanations from time to time.

 

Thank you for the informative post Melissa :001_smile:

 

Bill

[Vida Winter]

The part I like the best about the program is the grammar and the practice books. There are no worksheets in the text, and just a few examples, so to cement the ideas you really need to do the practice books. I love MCT's 4-level sentence analysis, a better way of diagramming sentences in my opinion.

 

I have most of the lower level books, and they are a bit too wordy for me; they tell a story along with presenting the facts. I guess I'd rather just have the facts, but then again I'm a mathy type person.

 

I'm planning on purchasing all the grammar/practice books and possibly all the poetry series as well. We do Latin already so the vocab is redundant for us. Well maybe not exactly redundant but too much work in addition to Latin.

 

I am using Lost Tools of Writing for composition and I don't know if I will have use for MCT's essay books...I will probably buy the upper level books to see what info I can glean for my high school student.

[Matryoshka]

I am using Lost Tools of Writing for composition and I don't know if I will have use for MCT's essay books...I will probably buy the upper level books to see what info I can glean for my high school student.

 

How are you liking Lost Tools of Writing - and for what grade level are you using it for? If the Town level goes well next year, I was thinking of using the Voyage level the year after, but I do worry a bit about there not being enough instruction (as opposed to just inspiration). I may use some IEW Theme-based lessons along with Paragraph Town for next year, for the same reason. Do you think one could do the same with LToW (use it for the instruction, but still read the MCT writing book for additional inspiration and maybe a few assignments)?

 

I do really like the look of the MCT high school writing books, though... they're what got me to take a closer look at the elementary level materials.

 

I really, really love the looks of the Poetry and Vocab books - but I haven't put them into practice yet, so I'll hold off giving any review till I have. I also really like the 4-level sentence analysis - that makes so much more sense to me than diagramming. I anticipate that'll be a keeper here.

[Willow]

Thank you Melissa and Dana, for your informative posts. This is what I needed to hear. It is grammar we are in need of the most and it seems that is what works best. maybe we will try the grammar and practice books, and see what we go from there.

 

Next question :001_smile:. My ds is 12 (grade 7) is it possible to enter at the 'voyage' level?

 

Thank you for all your help

 

Willow.

[Country Girl]

How are you liking Lost Tools of Writing - and for what grade level are you using it for? If the Town level goes well next year, I was thinking of using the Voyage level the year after, but I do worry a bit about there not being enough instruction (as opposed to just inspiration). I may use some IEW Theme-based lessons along with Paragraph Town for next year, for the same reason. Do you think one could do the same with LToW (use it for the instruction, but still read the MCT writing book for additional inspiration and maybe a few assignments)?

 

I do really like the look of the MCT high school writing books, though... they're what got me to take a closer look at the elementary level materials.

 

I really, really love the looks of the Poetry and Vocab books - but I haven't put them into practice yet, so I'll hold off giving any review till I have. I also really like the 4-level sentence analysis - that makes so much more sense to me than diagramming. I anticipate that'll be a keeper here.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I would also like to know about the LToW. We have used the MCT grammar, writing, and vocab books this year and enjoyed them (Island level plus Paragraph Town). I absolutely love the grammar series! However, I too am feeling like I need a bit more instruction/guidance in the writing department. We have been doing the assignments in the back of the Paragraph Town book and they are good, but I don't know if they are enough for us. I think we need a bit more hand holding, both in the organization of writing and style. I'd be interested to hear if you think LToW or IEW could be blended with MCT.

[Country Girl]

 

I think the grammar is excellent. MCT makes it all seem so fun and simple. His layout and explanation is the best I've seen and the practice books that go with the grammar program are great as well. I first started the program before the practice books were written and it was much harder for me to implement when I was trying to find my own sentences. The practice sentences increase in difficulty and even use vocabulary words from the vocab program.

 

I struggle with the writing program. The first book (Sentence Island) doesn't really have any writing in it. A few creative writing assignments. I like the layout of the next two books (especially Essay Voyage) but there isn't really any instruction. There are assignments and examples which are nice, but not really any writing instruction.

 

I like the vocabulary program. There aren't any look in the dictionary or fill in the blank type pages. It is basically reading - which is interesting, and memorizing the words/stems. My kids respond well to reading and memorization so the program works well for us.

 

I am on the fence with the poetry. I like it and it explains a lot, but I do not know enough about poetry to really take the program where it is meant to go. The poem recipes got the best of me. I would have to spend so much time trying to find poems to fit the recipes and would never be sure I had done correctly the poems we were analyzing. In order for the program to work for me I would need a teacher's "cheat sheet." I would need a book of recipes and poems already prepared that I could pull from as examples and even assignments.

 

I haven't decided what we will do for next year. We will definitely work through the grammar and practice book at the beginning of the year. We may skip the vocabulary since the girls are doing an online vocab progam. I think we will skip the poetry. It can only get more difficult for me as the program moves on. And we will probably do the writing program but wait another year for it. The last three levels of writing are different, in that each book only has four assignments. They are term paper type assignments: a research paper, an argumentative essay, etc. I don't think we are ready for those books yet, but I would like to work through them later.

 

Hope some of that rambling was helpful. The yahoo group for MCT users is fairly active and moderated by RFWP so you generally get good answers to questions about the curriculum. MCT also appears for explanations from time to time.

 

Melissa,

 

I agree with so much of your post! I love the grammar, it has been a huge hit for us. I like the writing, but feel I need more hand holding... both in helping my son organize his writing but also in giving it style. Have you found anything to work along side MCT?

 

I'm still undecided about the vocab and poetry for next year. We liked the vocab but I'm wondering if a less teacher-intensive program would work as well and be easier on me. As for poetry, we didn't do that part because I know nothing about poetry, and honestly, really don't have much interest. But, I've heard such good things about them that I've felt a bit of peer pressure to give them a try. Also, looking at the samples seems like it could be a good way to include literary terms (alliteration, assonance, etc.). However, reading your experience with the poetry is making me think it may be too tough for me as well and that I may not be able to really use it effectively.

 

Thanks for your post, it made me feel a bit better to know I'm not the only one who has mixed feelings about the program.

[Melissa B]

I agree with so much of your post! I love the grammar, it has been a huge hit for us. I like the writing, but feel I need more hand holding... both in helping my son organize his writing but also in giving it style. Have you found anything to work along side MCT?

 

 

I bought the IEW TWSS (used) and watched it a couple of times. Then I bought a few of the IEW theme books to add to the kids' history/geography program. That has been very helpful for us. It gives us the handholding and structure that I need. I own LTOW, but haven't had a chance to really look at it. I think we will probably do the IEW theme books again next year for a bit more practice on structure and then switch to the MCT academic writing the following year. I am hoping that that is all the writing instruction we will need (one MCT book per year for three years) and can turn our focus to writing within the context of other subjects rather than having a writing curriculum.

[Vida Winter]

About Lost Tools of Writing - I just started using this with my 8th grader (soon to be 9th grader). She is a little behind because of a 2.5 year stint in public school where the most complicated writing they did was a pseudo-book report every few weeks. You could hardly call it writing.

 

I was using CW for older students but it was moving too slowly. I want my student to be writing more complex essays sooner than was achievable in that program (although I may use it earlier with my younger ones). LTOW basically takes the student through three canons of writing - Invention (coming up with what to write about), Arrangement (organization and support of ideas), and Elocution (style; how to say what you want to in the best possible way). Each assignment focuses on a canon, and the canons are done in order. The result is an essay. Then they start over; the next assignment will take each canon a bit further. The student begins writing very simple essays and by the time they have gone through the sequence a dozen times or so, they will be writing essays of some complexity and structure.

 

The thing that I have found that is different about LTOW (and I have not used IEW so can't compare) is that the elocution exercises take the student through many examples of how to change a weak sentence into a strong sentence. I need to see these examples in order to be a good coach for my student; she needs to see them in order to know what the heck is expected of her. I like that LTOW gets down to specifics like this.

 

That being said about LTOW, I am intrigued by the upper levels of the MCT writing course. I would encourage you to search around the rfwp site and view the MCT videos on writing - they are excellent. I wish I could attend a conference where he is speaking. Learning to teach writing at the upper level is perhaps the hardest thing I have attempted as a homeschooler. I do not think one program is going to "do it" for me - I need to process a lot of information. I need to see something presented several different ways before it sinks in. This is not surprising; I have found the same to be true of learning grammar (which, it turns out, I never really learned in my own education). I need to see several different presentations before I get it - although the MCT materials have cemented it for me in a way that no others have.

 

My plan is to finish using LTOW this year. An higher level of LTOW is supposed to be in the works but I can't tell from their web site when it will be released. I'll get some MCT upper level materials mainly to help me. There may be some gems that I can add to the LTOW material - I have a feeling there will be from what I have seen on MCT's videos.

[Country Girl]

About Lost Tools of Writing - I just started using this with my 8th grader (soon to be 9th grader). She is a little behind because of a 2.5 year stint in public school where the most complicated writing they did was a pseudo-book report every few weeks. You could hardly call it writing.

 

I was using CW for older students but it was moving too slowly. I want my student to be writing more complex essays sooner than was achievable in that program (although I may use it earlier with my younger ones). LTOW basically takes the student through three canons of writing - Invention (coming up with what to write about), Arrangement (organization and support of ideas), and Elocution (style; how to say what you want to in the best possible way). Each assignment focuses on a canon, and the canons are done in order. The result is an essay. Then they start over; the next assignment will take each canon a bit further. The student begins writing very simple essays and by the time they have gone through the sequence a dozen times or so, they will be writing essays of some complexity and structure.

 

The thing that I have found that is different about LTOW (and I have not used IEW so can't compare) is that the elocution exercises take the student through many examples of how to change a weak sentence into a strong sentence. I need to see these examples in order to be a good coach for my student; she needs to see them in order to know what the heck is expected of her. I like that LTOW gets down to specifics like this.

 

That being said about LTOW, I am intrigued by the upper levels of the MCT writing course. I would encourage you to search around the rfwp site and view the MCT videos on writing - they are excellent. I wish I could attend a conference where he is speaking. Learning to teach writing at the upper level is perhaps the hardest thing I have attempted as a homeschooler. I do not think one program is going to "do it" for me - I need to process a lot of information. I need to see something presented several different ways before it sinks in. This is not surprising; I have found the same to be true of learning grammar (which, it turns out, I never really learned in my own education). I need to see several different presentations before I get it - although the MCT materials have cemented it for me in a way that no others have.

 

My plan is to finish using LTOW this year. An higher level of LTOW is supposed to be in the works but I can't tell from their web site when it will be released. I'll get some MCT upper level materials mainly to help me. There may be some gems that I can add to the LTOW material - I have a feeling there will be from what I have seen on MCT's videos.

 

 

Dana,

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to give us your thoughts. I actually just listened to a podcast interview yesterday with Andrew Kern and that is what got me thinking about this program. I always thought it was for older students (as you are using it) but he made it sound like it could really be used with younger kids as well, since it really is just the 3 basic parts of writing. He talked about how writing is really just thinking on paper, and even young kids can think. When I looked on his website today, the FAQs section seems to confirm this... that it can be used with youngers if the teacher is willing to make it work. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this. Since you still have youngers coming up, is it something you could see using with them at an earlier age than you are currently using it? From how you are describing it, I could really imagine having my ds work through the 3 canons, just on his level and increasing the depth each go around.

 

 

I know I've watched some of the videos on the MCT website but I can't remember if this included the writing ones or not (I think so but not sure). I'll go check them out again. I'm like you, I need lots of info to really cement something in my mind... which is why I was wondering about LTW with MCT

 

Thanks!

[Staci in MO]

Learning to teach writing at the upper level is perhaps the hardest thing I have attempted as a homeschooler. I do not think one program is going to "do it" for me - I need to process a lot of information. I need to see something presented several different ways before it sinks in.

 

I feel the same way. When we were writing sentences and paragraphs and doing narrations, I felt okay. But now it's getting harder.

 

This spring I have purchased SWB's rhetoric recommendations. I bought Rulebook for Arguments, The New Oxford Guide to Writing, Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student, and D'Angelo's Composition in the Classical Tradition. I'm just beginning to work my way through them, but I'm having a lot of "a-ha" moments. It's helped me see the big picture, which is helpful for me.

 

I'm also waiting on Lost Tools of Writing to Arrive. :blushing:

[Vida Winter]

Dana,

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to give us your thoughts. I actually just listened to a podcast interview yesterday with Andrew Kern and that is what got me thinking about this program. I always thought it was for older students (as you are using it) but he made it sound like it could really be used with younger kids as well, since it really is just the 3 basic parts of writing. He talked about how writing is really just thinking on paper, and even young kids can think. When I looked on his website today, the FAQs section seems to confirm this... that it can be used with youngers if the teacher is willing to make it work. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this. Since you still have youngers coming up, is it something you could see using with them at an earlier age than you are currently using it? From how you are describing it, I could really imagine having my ds work through the 3 canons, just on his level and increasing the depth each go around.

 

 

I know I've watched some of the videos on the MCT website but I can't remember if this included the writing ones or not (I think so but not sure). I'll go check them out again. I'm like you, I need lots of info to really cement something in my mind... which is why I was wondering about LTW with MCT

 

Thanks!

 

The materials say that it can be used with grades as early as 3rd. I have a dd finishing up 3rd grade and I just purchased Writing Tales for her. With this child I need a bit more hand-holding -- I don't think LTOW would be a good fit for her this early. I would want this child to have a better background in grammar before doing LTOW since it assumes a certain competency. So I can see that it is possible but not in our case. My kids are smart but not gifted - that is, they really have to work to learn.

 

Keep in mind that I am teaching three different grade levels this coming year - 9th, 4th, and K....so I am absolutely needing to minimize my own prep work. If I were teaching an only child or two closer to the same age it might be different.

 

Dana

[Country Girl]

The materials say that it can be used with grades as early as 3rd. I have a dd finishing up 3rd grade and I just purchased Writing Tales for her. With this child I need a bit more hand-holding -- I don't think LTOW would be a good fit for her this early. I would want this child to have a better background in grammar before doing LTOW since it assumes a certain competency. So I can see that it is possible but not in our case. My kids are smart but not gifted - that is, they really have to work to learn.

 

Keep in mind that I am teaching three different grade levels this coming year - 9th, 4th, and K....so I am absolutely needing to minimize my own prep work. If I were teaching an only child or two closer to the same age it might be different.

 

Dana

 

Dana,

 

Thanks again. I don't know that I'd say my son is gifted, but he is advanced. Like I mentioned, we've used the MCT Paragraph Town this year and I feel like he writes a pretty decent paragraph. However, whenever he is given a writing assignment, there is a very dramatic outpouring of feelings on how writing is hard, he can't think of anything to say etc. Basically, the three canons the LToW says it addresses. The way we have always dealt with this is me, sitting next to him, helping him work through each step. I don't mind this, but I feel like I need more hand holding to help him through this process. I'm wondering if LToW would provide the structure I need to help step him through the process.

 

I wonder if I may bother you with another question. If you are familiar with Essay Voyage.... do you think this would provide some more of the structure I'm looking for? Would it give more guidance in knowing what to write and style ideas? Or is it still primarily focused on structure like Paragraph Town?

 

Thanks!

[Willow]

I have another question for you, please.

 

Is it possible to pitch in at Voyage level (12 year old child, bright, not gifted, very little grammar)

[Melissa B]

I have another question for you, please.

 

Is it possible to pitch in at Voyage level (12 year old child, bright, not gifted, very little grammar)

 

 

I think you could skip Grammar Island if the child has a pretty good grasp of the eight parts of speech and can label them as well as an understanding of the main parts of a sentence - subject, predicate, direct object, indirect object and subject complement.

 

 

I think you could skip Grammar Town if the child also has some knowledge of verb tenses, subject vs. object pronouns, coordinating vs. subordinating conjunctions, different types of phrases, independent vs. dependent clauses, and types and purposes of sentences.

 

HTH!

[Matryoshka]

]Is it possible to pitch in at Voyage level (12 year old child, bright, not gifted, very little grammar)

 

 

If I'd only been looking at Grammar, my kids could've skipped up to Voyage or even the first Magic Lens level - they're very strong in grammar - but looking at the rest of the program, I put them into Town. I love the way the program integrates, so I decided I'd rather keep everything at the same level and have some of it be reinforcement/review. Mine are a year younger, though - they'll be 11 in the fall when we start, and they've mostly had creative writing. They definitely needed to back up with the poetry - there's so much in there! - and it won't hurt them at all to get reinforcement in the vocab/writing. I'm just going to supplement the writing with other things.

 

If you're not using the whole program, I think it'd be easier to jump in upstream. Or if grammar is the weakest area - I think grammar is actually much more straightforward than the poetics! My eyes just bugged out when I saw the third sample page of the Poetics at Voyage level.

[Vida Winter]

Dana,

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to give us your thoughts. I actually just listened to a podcast interview yesterday with Andrew Kern and that is what got me thinking about this program. I always thought it was for older students (as you are using it) but he made it sound like it could really be used with younger kids as well, since it really is just the 3 basic parts of writing. He talked about how writing is really just thinking on paper, and even young kids can think. When I looked on his website today, the FAQs section seems to confirm this... that it can be used with youngers if the teacher is willing to make it work. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this. Since you still have youngers coming up, is it something you could see using with them at an earlier age than you are currently using it? From how you are describing it, I could really imagine having my ds work through the 3 canons, just on his level and increasing the depth each go around.

 

 

I know I've watched some of the videos on the MCT website but I can't remember if this included the writing ones or not (I think so but not sure). I'll go check them out again. I'm like you, I need lots of info to really cement something in my mind... which is why I was wondering about LTW with MCT

 

Thanks!

 

I'll have to get more familiar with LTOW to be able to make a call on using it with a younger student. The reason I chose Writing Tales for my younger student is that she needs more grammar practice. I anticipate using concepts from LTOW to help her with whatever writing tasks she has - maybe not take her through the program yet but use ideas from it where they can help.

 

From what I have seen on the MCT site (and I don't own anything over the town level so I'm not fully informed) the writing process is not broken down into discrete steps like LTOW. The steps are what is attractive about LTOW, however. Without knowing the steps, it is hard to know what exactly to teach. I'm looking at using the MCT upper levels as sort of an "icing on the cake" for LTOW. We've benefitted hugely from using the grammar portion of MCT materials; until I own the writing portions I can't say much about them.

 

LOL, I should probably stick with one program and not try to combine everything!

[Country Girl]

I'll have to get more familiar with LTOW to be able to make a call on using it with a younger student. The reason I chose Writing Tales for my younger student is that she needs more grammar practice. I anticipate using concepts from LTOW to help her with whatever writing tasks she has - maybe not take her through the program yet but use ideas from it where they can help.

 

From what I have seen on the MCT site (and I don't own anything over the town level so I'm not fully informed) the writing process is not broken down into discrete steps like LTOW. The steps are what is attractive about LTOW, however. Without knowing the steps, it is hard to know what exactly to teach. I'm looking at using the MCT upper levels as sort of an "icing on the cake" for LTOW. We've benefitted hugely from using the grammar portion of MCT materials; until I own the writing portions I can't say much about them.

 

LOL, I should probably stick with one program and not try to combine everything!

 

Dana,

Thank you so much. You have been very helpful! I've been looking at the samples of LTOW and still trying to get a feel for it. I'm not really familiar with the classical method of writing (is this the progym?), so I'm still trying to figure out exactly what LTOW is and what it teaches. I see that it covers persuasive writing but I can't tell if it covers other things (or maybe all other things can be covered under the umbrella of persuasive writing???? I don't really know!). The thing I do know is that I'd like the step by step process of it (and the way the steps are broken down into the 3 canons, this makes a lot of sense to me). I also like that it still seems to allow freedom, not quite as formulaic as something like IEW.

 

I agree with your assessment of MCT. I love the he is truly passionate about writing (and language in general) and think that giving my kids the opportunity to learn from people who are passionate about a subject is one of the best ways to learn. However, I still feel like we need the steps broken down into smaller pieces a bit. Somehow meshing the two would be ideal.... but maybe that is getting in over my head. Your idea of LTOW and then finishing with MCT may be a good way to combine them.

 

Thanks!

[Colleen in SEVA]

:lurk5:

 

Thank you for all the great info above!

 

We've been using MCT, but there is such a jump between levels that I feel we will have to "fill in" at some point. No idea with what... or when... or why... :001_huh: