I think I'm gonna faint...I found something extraordinary

[MistyJ]

I guess what is bothering me is that I am sensing that Mr. Michael is Pre Vatican II Ultraconservative? The critical, negative light that is shed on American families---just the 'tone' he takes with comments like this:

 

 

4. Simplify Your Life

You wouldn't have piles of laundry if you had a daily routine and stuck to it. Your children wouldn't need ten outfits and they wouldn't be randomly changed (and thrown into the hamper or on the floor) throughout the day. You wouldn't have piles of dishes and hours of food preparation if you simplified your diet. The hectic housewife is a product of her family's inordinate tastes and impractical schedule. You can simplify.

5. Serve the Poor

Most American families are idle and invent problems for themselves. Scripture tells us, "You who have two tunics (shirts) give to him who has none, and you who have food do likewise." One of the causes of impiety and unhappiness is selfishness. Get out of your house and go help the poor, the elderly, etc.. They need clothing, food and help. You have it all.

2. Family Chapel

You cannot meditate and pray in the middle of the kitchen. There needs to be a sacred (set apart for the Lord) space in the home where you can go for quiet prayer, read a devotional book, meditate before a crucifix, etc. Rather than devoting a room to the television or to extra beds, devote it prayer and worship. You have room.

 

Nothing wrong with these ideas---but YOU HAVE ROOM? Really? MOST American families are idle and invent problems for themselves??? Really? If life is hectic it is because of my family's inordinate tastes and impracticle schedule??? Could this be any more ridiculous and offensive?

 

And I can say that I know of no Catholic Churches, so far, that use the 'Original" 1885 Baltimore Catechism in its sole entirety. I think it's because of things like teaching our kids that even 'attending' a wedding in a Protestant church is a mortal sin and even if it was a child---the family should excommunicate them? Sorry---this is NOT Christian thinking. I won't teach my kids bigotry and uncharitable behavior like this. Ever. And our Parish Priest agrees.

 

So I guess this is the tone I am picking up from this site---an old-fashioned sort of bigoted attitude about being Catholic and somehow 'we' are better than the rest of humankind. Well, especially with a True Classical Education under our belts. I do believe that this type of attitude is what fueled HUNDREDS of years of bloodbath wars throughout Europe. I'll take a more American Melting Pot kind, charitable, loving Christian attitude over this any day. ;)

 

I am Catholic, and really bemoan the spiritual pride that can rise in ultra-conservatives, who have a "more Catholic than the Pope" attitude. We see it in our friends and in some of their children. Neither am I a big fan of the Baltimore Catechism. However, the points you quote from Mr. Michael in your post all resonate with me. I agree with them 100%. Everyone around me complains of hectic family schedules of their own making. My kids have too much clothing. Homes may be full of beautiful children, but who isn't warm, dry and fed well compared to say, Haiti?

Edited March 12, 2010 by MistyJ

[4wildberrys]

I am Catholic, and really bemoan the spiritual pride that can rise in ultra-conservatives, who have a "more Catholic than the Pope" attitude. We see it in our friends and in some of their children. Neither am I a big fan of the Baltimore Catechism. However, the points you quote from Mr. Michael in your post all resonate with me. I agree with them 100%. Everyone around me complains of hectic family schedules of their own making. My kids have too much clothing. Homes may be full of beautiful children, but who isn't warm, dry and fed well compared to say, Haiti?

 

I agree with the Points too 100%---just not the Holier than Thou 'Finger Pointing' method expounded on that page. I guess it doesn't surprise me, though, coming from a missionary family probably serving in a very poor country who would look at their American home and become disdainful and disgusted with our 'self created' problems. It's just a real turn off.

[rookie]

I am Catholic, and really bemoan the spiritual pride that can rise in ultra-conservatives, who have a "more Catholic than the Pope" attitude. We see it in our friends and in some of their children. Neither am I a big fan of the Baltimore Catechism. However, the points you quote from Mr. Michael in your post all resonate with me. I agree with them 100%. Everyone around me complains of hectic family schedules of their own making. My kids have too much clothing. Homes may be full of beautiful children, but who isn't warm, dry and fed well compared to say, Haiti?

 

 

Well, I am not Catholic (or anything) and they resonate with me too. It sounds like an EXACT description of everyone around us. We are held in wonder because out closets are bare, and we choose to eat simply, and have NO video/tv, and limit the kids activities to preserve family life...all in the middle of a big city. In the meantime, our friends and neighbors are exhausted from over-packed schedules, their closets groan under STUFF, and the cupboards are full of treats, and the kids have all of the latest technology available...but no one seems happy or engaged with one another. Particularly, people seem really out of touch with looking outside of themselves and serving others.

[iwka]

I guess what is bothering me is that I am sensing that Mr. Michael is Pre Vatican II Ultraconservative?

 

I have no clue what people think that, but he is not Pre-Vatican II. I guess everybody who teaches Latin, good classics and is Catholic is a suspect now days. ;)

[LG Gone Wild]

I guess what is bothering me is that I am sensing that Mr. Michael is Pre Vatican II Ultraconservative?

 

 

 

I doubt it since he has a post complaining about Pre-Vatican II types. I haven't read everything on the site but what I have read doesn't pertain to Pre or Post Vatican II disputes. If he has picked a side, I don't know what it is. Plus, the website mostly apolitical.

 

He skewers much of modern society and I am completely on board with that. It is ridiculous!! People dying on operating tables from butt lifts comes to mind.

 

P.S. I thought this thread was dead!

Edited March 12, 2010 by LG Gone Wild

[4wildberrys]

I have no clue what people think that, but he is not Pre-Vatican II. I guess everybody who teaches Latin, good classics and is Catholic is a suspect now days. ;)

 

 

I guess my family is suspect then, huh? :D I don't think it's the subjects, just the overbearing tone of how it is all presented.

 

But if they use the 1885 not updated BC---isn't that considered PreVII? I notice no mention of the CCC.

[LG Gone Wild]

Did you have to buy any textbooks for Grammar 1? I didn't see that in the quick look through. SOrry if it is there somewhere and I just didn't look deep enough.

Thanks

 

Nope. Just print the lessons out so your kids eyes don't cross! Part of CLAA's schtick is streamline and simplicity. I don't think any extra materials need to be purchased until the higher levels (like waaayyy higher). Well, you do need a computer, paper, and pencil.

[LG Gone Wild]

I guess my family is suspect then, huh? :D I don't think it's the subjects, just the overbearing tone of how it is all presented.

 

But if they use the 1885 not updated BC---isn't that considered PreVII? I notice no mention of the CCC.

 

His lessons refer to CCC all the time.

 

I highly suggest you e-mail him your concerns/objections. He is his own spokesperson.

 

I am with Iwka, I must be tone deaf.

[iwka]

Did you have to buy any textbooks for Grammar 1? I didn't see that in the quick look through. SOrry if it is there somewhere and I just didn't look deep enough.

Thanks

 

No textbooks. Everything needed is in the lessons online (including prelection with slides and audio) that you can print out and study away from computer. The quizes and tests are also online, grading is automatic, support all day long.

[iwka]

I agree with the Points too 100%---just not the Holier than Thou 'Finger Pointing' method expounded on that page. I guess it doesn't surprise me, though, coming from a missionary family probably serving in a very poor country who would look at their American home and become disdainful and disgusted with our 'self created' problems. It's just a real turn off.

 

The question would be: should it be a turnoff? To get rid of "stuff" and clutter, to organize our lives according to what Jesus and the saints exampled, (not what the latest online orgenizer with 300 pages tells you :tongue_smilie:), to learn from Church's experience in education? They had the best schools for centuries. :)

 

There is a Praeceptor course in the CLAA that explains the history of classical liberal arts. I have just started it and it is fascinating.

[MistyJ]

I see your ds 10 is doing CLAA combined with other materials. How do you decide?

 

I've been using Classical Writing with my dc for a year, and want to continue, but would like to do Math, Latin, maybe Geography with CLAA.

 

Can a child move from Saxon 8/7 into their math? From Abeka 4?

[iwka]

I see your ds 10 is doing CLAA combined with other materials. How do you decide?

 

I've been using Classical Writing with my dc for a year, and want to continue, but would like to do Math, Latin, maybe Geography with CLAA.

 

Can a child move from Saxon 8/7 into their math? From Abeka 4?

 

My ds10 is somewhat dyslexic and is not ready for the main CLAA courses, ao I am trying slowly to incorporate the courses to his studies. Therefore he is enrolled for now only in Catechism and Geography, but starting this summer he will start World Chronology (history) and maybe Arithmetic.

 

Other than that I will use probably only the CLAA in the near future (don't know yet with my 12 dd, who is finishing Singapore 6B - I just enrolled her in Classical Arithmetic and we will decide later on, if she will need any modern Algebra, or if we will stick only with the Arithmetic course).

 

All of the courses can be taken separately, but together they are making much more sense, as the ideas and concepts presented are so greatly presented, and although challenging, very satisfying for the kids. My kids had never learned and retained so much knowledge before.

 

Every child who knows how to read and follow instructions and can work independently (so about age 6-8...it all depends) should start in the core courses, which are: Catechism, Grammar (Grammar and Latin) and Arithmetic.

 

CLAA will start this fall Writer's School called Schola Scriptorum, which will be integrated with the core curriculum courses. Being enrolled in Grammar and Schola Scriptorum would be like Latin, grammar and writing.

 

Arithmetic is thought inductively, therefore is completely different "piece of art."

 

You can sign up for the forum, there is ton of good info there already. Get a cup of coffee or tea, you will spend hours there. I warned you.:)

 

Blessings.

[4wildberrys]

Go to any other then Western country (I lived in US, Poland, Russia, Saudi And Qatar and visited a lot of other countries) and see with how little people can accomplish so much. Americans have THE MOST "stuff" and are the most offended when someone points it out. Even in the Christian churches they had to make a way how to speak about it as not to offend no one. Jesus' Sermon on the Mount should point the way, but we are making excuses to keep it the way we like it and to be busy about it. Jesus' words were offending people and he was radical.

 

As for the schedules and impracticality - that would be a complex problem. It starts with the idea that we have to give "everything our kids deserve and keep them happy, self-fulfilled" etc. and goes forever :-)

 

Another problem with reading statements as such above people have is:

 

1. they do not know the tone of voice of the person speaking - and they always imagine the worst, i. e. a guy screaming or yelling his right out...try to read these passages with an image of a humble guy who is speaking calmly, but firmly

2. Relativism. It is creeping on us and we don't even know we are it's servants. On the one hand everything what Mr. King or Oprah is saying on TV, even if it's slamming Christians or undermining, misquoting etc. - we are even afraid to question or we would deal with it as we are some lower species. If a Christian who is prepared and recognized in his field is saying things radical, but basically accentuating the Gospel's message - we dismiss it as something out of scale for an average Christian to follow. We are trying to

Therefore we have Christians who are mellow, compromised, no more effective than an average humanitarian aid institution.

 

As for the CLAA. Show me another truly classical liberal arts program that is connecting academics and life style, following church's magisterium and traditions. It is offensive and challenging because it is offering something that might change not only the lives of families who are enrolled (plus you as a family decide, how much or how little of other other then academic advice will take), but it is one of the answers of how to re-evangelize Catholics who are just pew warmers.

 

 

And don't forget American are THE MOST generous in giving to any and every cause around the world too. :D I guess all of our stuff comes in handy. I just want to add that trying to live up to the ideals set forth there are fine---but alas my husband and I just need to drink wine, waste time on the internet, watch TV, let our kids play video games, PLAY and buy stuff we don't really need sometimes!!! We balance that with lots of family time, lots of love in our family, lots of praying (even in the kitchen) and lots of Bible reading and attending mass, etc, teenagers that are thoughtful kind and generous---even though they do have too many clothes, cell phones and xboxes. Perhaps we are simply 'per warmers'---but alas---God knows our hearts and will judge us accordingly no matter what the outside package looks like. :tongue_smilie:

 

BUT----I don't want to bash a schooling program that is obviously working well and a good fit for you and others here. Really! So I will just end with the comment that a program like that would be too rigid and not a good fit for my family and my kids. It's obviously working for some families and that is what counts.