Heather in VA
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Posts posted by Heather in VA
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I do love the review sections in R&S and I agree that review isn't as apparent in COTR. I do like the step-by-step approach it has though. That's one thing I really liked about R&S as well. One thing to remember is that pre-algebra is supposed to be a review and final study of all the math going up to Algebra and then a introduction to Algebra concepts. If you don't feel like you need that you might actually be ready for Algebra. What level of R&S did you finish? If you went through 7 or 8 you probably don't need to do a pre-algebra program.
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We are in a similar situation. My youngest has struggled mightily with math. After trying many things, the most effective of which was just time to mature, we did Teaching Textbooks for two years. It gave her confidence and made math at least tolerable. As she became more confident I decided I wanted a different math program. We moved to R&S. Honestly I wish that I had used R&S much earlier. It is excellent and working well. She doesn't love math but she's learning it and learning it better than with TT. I have been looking at what to do for Pre-Algebra as well. We use a lot of MP products so I started looking into Redwood. I REALLY like the look of it. To me it seem like a more modern R&S (less farming problems LOL). According to MP you can move from R&S 6 to COTR pre-algebra. They used to do R&S 7 as pre-algebra but said COTR is better prep for Algebra and from what I have seen I agree. Did you know you can see the entire book online? I play to buy the book because I know my daughter wouldn't do well with an online text but it's a great way to see the book in depth.
http://mathrev.redwoods.edu/PreAlgText/
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Thanks again to everyone.... I wanted to give everyone and update. We've had a good last week. Something interesting happened too. With all the recommendations I was checking out IEW and watching some of the sample videos on YouTube. I've used IEW before but it's been years and not with this child in mind so I wanted to look again. My daughter came and sat down next to me to watch. I didn't say anything and resisted the urge to ask her what she thought. She asked to watch another one. So we did. And another. Then she left without saying anything. Ok. One of the ones she watched was about the strong verbs. A couple hours later she comes back with a paper full of sentences and she starts reading them to me and asking me if they are strong verbs. (they were) Then she told me the 'guy in the video' was interesting and asked if we could buy videos with him. At this point I'm on the floor completely floored and trying not to cry happy tears. Honestly I have absolutely no idea if it's going to work but she WANTS to do it. I ordered it and she's already asked me twice if it's here yet. Just that she's looking forward to it is worth the price to me. When it comes we will take it slowly and let her determine the pace. I don't want to squelch her excitement.
Cautiously optimistic..
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We did the same as Debbie. Worked out very well and even though we didn't focus on or test the 'extra' material she read, she did retain a decent amount of it. She loved all the dissections as well.
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I don't know if that means you can't use later editions. I purchased the 7th edition because that's what the syllabus listed at the time, this was a few years ago, and it was much cheaper than the more current versions. I suspect they don't vary much. If you would prefer to use a different edition I recommend emailing Dr. Shormann and asking if the differences matter. He's very good at answering questions like that.
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How well did it pair with DIVE? Or did you use DIVE?
It paired very well. There is a syllabus for it on the website. He doesn't actively promote Campbell because it's secular but it's an excellent text.
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We really like Biblioplan. The Companion is excellent.
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She isn't currently on medication. We used meds in the past with mixed results. We tried several oral medications and while all of them helped her focus, she had horrible side effects like uncontrollable shaking, blinding headaches etc. So for about 2 years she was on a patch which didn't have the side effects but caused a very suppressed appetite and she ended up underweight. We had to get special approval from our insurance company for that medication and once the paperwork got all messed up so she was off it for about a month. There wasn't enough noticeable difference for her or for us in her school or her daily life to justify continuing it. We meet with her doctor every few months so I can talk to him about it again but at the moment I'm hesitant.
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If you are ok with video lessons (and labs) rather than live, I highly recommend DIVE Biology. We did it with the Campbell Biology book and it was very good. It is not secular. I wasn't sure if that was a requirement.
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Alte - you are so right... I find that things work and then suddenly we run smack into a wall. That is not my favorite feature of ADD :-). I really appreciate your input. I'm going to give more thought to this.
At least I feel like I have my feet under me again.
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If you are open to American and World History over two years I highly recommend Biblioplan. The Companion is definitely meaty. It's not fully secular but it's fair and not pushy/judgy.
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Thanks again everyone. We had a much better day today. We were both more relaxed. I talked to her about starting a diary and she seemed happy about the idea. We will try it in a couple of weeks. My college daughter comes home Thursday for a week and next week they are going skiing for a couple of days. So I figure the week after that we'll be back to a full schedule week and we can start then. Until then.... NO WRITING!!! YIPPEE!!
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Thank you all so much. I feel so much better now and you all have such great advice. We are definitely going to take a break. We both need it. I like the diary idea. She has mentioned wanting one in the past so I think after a break we'll start with that. Ultimately it sounds like IEW might be worth a shot. I am so much calmer just knowing we are going to take a break and relax.
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I am absolutely at my wits end with my youngest. She's 11, almost 12. She has ADD but most of the time her problem is apathy. She has struggled with math, very late bloomer with that, but we are making progress finally. She's an excellent reader. The biggest problem with reading is if she isn't interested so she skims. UGH. She loves science and Spanish. Most subjects we are surviving but I am absolutely at my wits end with writing.
I have no clue what to do anymore. We did a few levels of WWE. It was fine but like pulling teeth. I've tried loose things like Bravewriter ideas. Super Structured like WWS - that actually went ok until it got too hard. It might be good to finish later. I tried GWG Writing. I tried teaching her myself with organizational ideas. We are now going through writing assignments in R&S 4 and 5. She is capable. If she was putting in the effort necessary her big problem would be learning to structure her ideas. When she writes on her own her ideas are all over the place but her sentences are excellent and word choice varied and well done. I could deal with needing to learn how to organize but most of the time when I want her to write I get a couple barely passable sentences and that's it. She seems frustrated but I don't know how much of this is her ideas being jumbled in her head and how much of it is laziness. She is notorious for trying the shortest shortcut.
For example, today we worked on supporting a topic sentence with examples. She knew plenty about the topic but I got the topic sentence and one more that was just a list. I started asking her to list examples (orally) and she just stared at me. Finally I pulled them out of her and we put something together. By then I was so frustrated I had to stop school and retreat to my room. She's completely capable of this. I can't figure out how to get her to do what she's capable of.
For other subjects I've had to work hard to find the program that will fit her best and works. Then I know when we have a bad day it's usually her because I know the program is working for her. I don't feel like we are there with writing. I don't know what would be good for her to use. I don't expect anything to be magic for her but we need something that is working better than what we are doing now. We tend to like programs that are step-by-step, clearly laid out, clear instructions, no nonsense. We have grammar so I'd rather not use something that has a lot of grammar but honestly I'll do anything that could help. This is the desperate white flag. Even cost isn't really an issue. If it helps, I'll pay for it (although if it helps and isn't budget busting that's extra good).
So far I have the following ideas.
IEW
Jump-In
Write Shop
Essentials in Writing.
I don't even know what to try or what else to look at. I worry to some extent about programs with check lists like IEW. I don't want her so caught up in '3 adjectives' etc that she doesn't see a bigger picture in how to write. I don't know if that becomes an issue but it was something that worried me.
Anyway - enough babbling. HELP!! I can't take many more days like today.
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The student needs to understand how to write a sentence correctly, as well as how to construct a paragraph (topic sentence and supporting sentences, no off-topic sentences). My oldest used a variety of things that didn't really help before she started Intro to Comp., but the one thing that did help was the writing instruction in Rod & Staff grammar.
Was there a particular level of R&S that was especially helpful with the writing?
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My DD is 2e with ADD inattentive, working memory and processing speed issues.
Adding another response to ask about processing speed issues - how do you determine this? Sometimes she takes absolutely forever to do something I know she can do quickly but then I've always assumed it was the ADD causing her not to focus.
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Are you using graph paper? My DD is 2e with ADD inattentive, working memory and processing speed issues. Math was frustrating for her for a long time (and still is for random topics) because she got the concepts right away but struggled with output mostly in terms of sequencing and organization.
YES!!! graph paper is our friend. She doesn't need it for long multiplication anymore but it's been a life saver for so many things. She uses a white board a lot as well for things she feels she needs to write bigger than paper allows. It's very odd that she's often much more organized and lined up on the white board. It seems like that would be harder, but she likes it.
I, too, have been very surprised as to how well she's taken to long division. It may be that it will continue to go well. It's just that for the first time ever we have good math days pretty much every day. She's enjoying it and feeling good. I want to be prepared if this causes trouble because I'm just so happy to have it working.
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You know, it does require more. And I had a similar fear. But it wasn't that bad. Both my kids did fine with the bigger divisors. And it helped them see how they needed to use their estimation skills more. Basically I'd just keep going and not even bring up the calculator. Don't borrow trouble. See how it goes. Maybe this isn't possible with TT's computer format, but can you just assign fewer problems and take it slower, acknowledging that these just take longer and that's okay?
Thanks - yea I'm definitely not going to pull the trigger yet but I'm just thinking it through.
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Issues down the road: polynomial division.
Calculators work fine when you have numbers - but not when you have symbols for variables. Polynomial division in algebra 2 is basically long division, but a calculator will be of no help, since you have no numbers to punch in.
I agree but I'm not sure how necessary a large number of the more brute force type will change the ability to understand this. I'm not suggesting abandoning long division all together. I guess I'm thinking back to my oldest who struggled with the harder long division but didn't have any problems with polynomial division. I think sometimes it's a combination of the fact that for a lot of kids manipulating variables has a different feel to it than numbers and by the time they get to Alg 2 they're thought process is much more mature.
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So here's the situation... My 11 year old is ADD. She also struggles with math. The math struggle has primarily come from two places - she was one of those kids who didn't start understanding math until she was older so she naturally was "behind" and because math requires analytical thinking and that hasn't "turned on" as quickly with her either. She doesn't officially have discalculia or anything like that but math has always caused stress and tears. She is FINALLY making terrific progress. She's using TT6. She knows her math facts, including her multiplication facts. She can do long multiplication with large numbers. I was terrified of long division because another one of her issues is organization. She's the kind of kid who naturally doesn't go in order. Normally a kid sees a page of questions and does 1, 2, 3... She doesn't have the sequential tendency so she wanders - focus is an issue. Long division only works if you are really methodical. But she is doing great. She can now do long division of a single digit divisor into any size dividend. Yesterday she told me for the first time... 'Mom - maybe I'm not stupid about math'. I cried. She is still exhausted when she's done with her lesson (we take a 20 minute break after math for her to recover) but she's doing it. Multi-digit divisors requires so much more. So much brute force just to figure out how many times something can be divided since they aren't math facts. It's going to exhaust her and I even more than that I don't want to distort the self-esteem we are finally starting to build with her. The reality is that these days everyone has a calculator at all time and really wouldn't spend a lot of time doing a complicated long division problem on paper when they could whip out their phone so I am considering allowing the use of a calculator only for these more complicated problems. I sit right with her for all of her math so I would have complete control over which problems I would allow it's use.
I'm looking for input on this. I wouldn't typically consider this but I need to balance what I consider ideal with the reality of what damage it might cause her to make her struggle at something I'm not convinced is a hill to die on. Thoughts for issues it could cause down the road?
Thanks
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I have one who adore history, one who thinks it's 'eh' and one who hates it... they are really like Biblioplan. The Companion is really interesting - you can download a three week sample of any of the years from their website. It's definitely not babyish, in fact I use it as an overview for my 11 year old and she'll read and really learn the whole thing for high school.
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You're welcome KCR's Mom... I am glad it looks interesting to you. Just so you know for future, we used DIVE Biology. We are Christians but avoid programs that think there is nothing to science beyond age and creation. UGH. Anyway - DIVE definitely is a creation program but it does not discount evolution as necessary knowledge. We also used it with Campbell's Biology which is a secular college text (they have a syllabus for it and a few other secular Biology texts) which made for a nice balance. DIVE is quite challenging and has high expectations of it's students. They expect well written labs and for the student to take notes during the lectures. My oldest who used DIVE is now a nursing major (2nd year) and flew through her science classes so far (Chemistry, MicroBiology, 2 semesters of Anatomy and Physiology, and a few more I can't remember now). She said she was very well prepared by DIVE with secular text accompaniments.
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Hake, Growing with Grammar, Abeka
Need Ideas For High School A+P Course
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
We didn't do any lab with our AP course. She had already done lots of dissection in biology so we concentrated on terms and concepts since we knew she would be taking it in college as a nursing major.