Heather in VA
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Posts posted by Heather in VA
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OK, so.... what exactly does Michelle actually DO? (I don't have cable, so rarely see the show) If her older girls cook, clean, and care for the younger children, wouldn;t Michelle have enough time on her hands to pay attention to her own dang cycles? :glare:
LOL!!!! I'm sorry - I'm not laughing at you. But this has been a big question for years. The answer is she gets pregnant, she makes goo-goo eyes at Jim Bob, she talks about how she gave birth to all of her kids .... in other words -NOTHING.
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Bolding by me. Anna has publicly stated that both she and her parents knew (still not a reason to harass her, of course, I just wanted to clarify).
Yes I know - and maybe she did but let's face it. What else is she going to say right now in the wake of all of this? She is 7 months pregnant. Has 3 kids. Has no job experience or real education. If she's been blind-sided by the fact that her husband molested his sisters either with absolutely no knowledge or having been told something significantly lessor than what actually occurred she has to be in shock, in a panic, in complete denial etc. Down the road it may come out that she really didn't know or he told her something much different. We know he isn't acknowledging what he did even now that its completely out. He's still calling it "teenage mistakes". So I have a hard time believing he actually told Anna or her parents outright that he sexually touched his sisters.
It's also possible they found out later than she's indicating but knew before now but past the time of being able to get out (already married, had kids etc).
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The rumors have floated for years, but with a famous family like this, there are lots of rumors, and frankly, this one was so odious that it seemed the least likely to be true. It was a caricature of a rumor, and just the kind of hateful nonsense that flourishes online.
Except it was true.
As for people enjoying their downfall, anyone who knows or loves a gay person in this country and wishes them full civil rights, and who would prefer to make their reproductive choices in consultation with a doctor, rather than the oversight of Bill Gothard and Jim Bob Duggar, has legitimate reason to rejoice that this family have lost their public platform.
This whole thing is entirely depressing.
Sorry but I've read some of those 'gleeful' comments out there addressed to Anna making reference to her children having 'pervert genes' and asking her what it's like to have his penis in her knowing it touched his sisters. That is totally out of line and hateful no matter what his political opinions are.
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Wow, I was just on Anna Duggar's Instagram account. I'm shocked at how mean people can be. There is no amount of money or fame that would make it worthwhile to put up with that.
I'm out of likes but you are so right. I know there is possibility Anna went into this marriage fully knowing she was marrying a child/incest molester. Personally I think it's unlikely but even if it's true there is no excuse for berating and insulting her like that. Josh is the molester. I think it's far more likely that Anna was just told he struggled with purity and now she's scrambling to put the pieces of her life back together. Pile on top of that the fact that she's pregnant and dealing with three young kids..... I seriously hope she isn't reading her Instagram.
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Out of likes again, geez.
Yep - here too...
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Or even just to know from whom to protect you. It's one of those very basic instincts, especially for men, to want to protect their partner. It must feel like the worst gut punch to think you'd inadvertently been chummy with your loved one's molester. That's a lot to process. I really do feel for those husbands in this, too.
This part makes me even more angry about their insane rules that you can't be alone with the person you are going to marry. Think about that. Even if Derick and Ben were told, they never got to talk to Jill or Jessa alone about it, about how they felt, about how to approach sex etc.
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Ugh - I'm out of 'likes' again
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Not really my point.
I'm not saying in the strictest definition that he's not a murderer. I'm saying how should we treat that person who has repented?
Do you hate your IRL friend because he killed someone 20 years ago? Do you call him a murderer when you see him? I'm guessing not, because what he did 20 years ago, doesn't define him if he's been a different person since. I'm assuming this is the case or else you wouldn't be friends with him now.
I think part of the problem here is that Josh really hasn't repented in the eyes of most of the people on this board (and other places). He said he is sorry for 'teenage mistakes'. He fondled children. That is NOT a teenage mistake. I don't think it's possible to legitimately repent if you are still downplaying and mitigating your actions. In addition, Josh took a job that actively called homosexuals pedophiles and worked against them as evil. Meanwhile the whole time he is a child molester. Again - not repentant. Read his comments and his resignation letter. I see no repentance - just an attempt to downplay his culpability.
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Yeah, here's Michelle's not-at-all-controlling reframe:
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“Jinger didn’t mean that she wanted to move to New York City,†Michelle later clarified to Radar Online. “She meant that she wants to live closer to a city. We’re talking right near a city, but not New York City. Jinger meant that she wanted to live 15 minutes from a Walmart. We live so far out of town on 20 acres, but Jinger wants to live closer to town, so she doesn’t have to drive so far to go shopping.â€
Blech. I din't know Jinger needed an interpretter.
I remember when this first happened and I still get angry every time i think about it. How horrible it must have been for Jinger to say something she thinks and basically be told 'you don't get to think. I'll tell you what to think'. I'm sure Jinger wants to live near Walmart instead of NYC. Of course... UGH.
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I have called this group a cult. I have not called Christians a cult. Nor do I see anyone doing a happy dance here over this. No one should experience what the girls did. My heart breaks for *any* child in that situation. The criticism against religion I see here is leveled against ATI- which is a cult movement that has richly earned criticism and which the Duggars, tragically, bought into.
This is the view here and with those who bother to really look, but in the mainstream world, those who just read the headline, the Duggars represent Christians as a whole. They don't see the difference between the ATI cult and Christians who find the ATI reprehensible. It's been true since the beginning of the show and one big reason I have always disliked them. People know I'm a Christian homeschooler. They assume that means I am like the Duggars. I couldn't be less like them and I get tired of dealing with that.
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To be honest, if she could get out from under her father's thumb, I think it would be Jana because she has made comments before in interviews about wanting to leave, about wanting to live in the city, for which she has been hushed on camera by her mother who hastens to explain that this is not what she, Jana, actually means.
Jana has been sent to "journey of the heart" camp more than any of the other girls according to witnesses in Watersmeet (the town where the center is located here in northern Michigan). Since it is a re-education camp for wayward girls, my guess is Jana has drunk the least of the koolaid. I know they claim she has gone there as a counselor, and that might be true. But still....that's my guess.
That said, I don't think she will get out from under unless she has managed to make contact with TLC personnel who will help her make contact with the resources necessary to leave.
I am so worried about Jana. I've always worried about her but now I'm terrified for her. I don't think JimBob and Michele will be quick to decide she needs therapy. She will take the brunt of the blame and the guilt.
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Soooo, who do you think will be the first family member to give an interview?
I'd be stunned if any of them do... at least any of the girls. JB and Michele might.
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I believe that Christ can bring healing to even the most awful circumstances. I LIVE by that truth and I've seen it, and experienced it myself. So, while I would have handled things differently, I don't think it means that Josh and the girls are forever damaged. Do you?
But they didn't/aren't looking to Jesus to heal this. They are looking to their cult doctrine of blaming the girls for being "seductive" and asking them to forgive his so-called "mistake". Meanwhile they are to live at home for years with him and still at home now with the people who protected their abuser. Now they are going to be blamed for ending their very lucrative TV show. So yea - I think until they really looking to Jesus and admitting who the victims are and who the criminal is.... they are forever damaged.
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I've been reading this thread all day. The thing I keep wondering to myself is whether the husbands of the two girls who are married now (sorry, I don't know the names) knew this had happened to them or not. I think my dh would kick anyone's arse who had done something like this to me if he knew about it.
I'm actually more worried that they didn't know and will not be supportive of them. Gothardites blame the woman in an abuse case. They consider it their fault for "seducing" their molester. The husbands may blame their wives rather than Josh.
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Just looking at the photos made me uncomfortable.
I think the entire concept of purity balls is warped.
Those pictures are really twisted. There is at least one picture with girls who are too young to really know what sex is let alone decide to pledge their virginity. Not one girl looked happy.
UGH UGH UGH
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I think they don't want anyone to go to college because then they would be outside their father's umbrella of spiritual covering. Plus, debt for student loans is morally unacceptable and most fundy families don't have the financial resources the Duggars have had until now. Boys are encouraged to learn a trade by apprenticeship.
I don't know how the Bates let their kids go to Crown College. Perhaps they don't care because they went there.
Crown College is basically ATI home in a college setting. It's not accredited and really more about basic education while keeping the uber control the parents usually do. If you get a chance read some of their rules. It's disturbing.
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I don't know if Joanne would agree with this but I personally think that before the girls are adults, they should NEVER be required to live with him, and should never see him alone and shouldn't be pressured to see him at all. If he visits, he should spend nights at a hotel nearby, and if the girls don't feel like seeing him, there should be no guilt trips, no repercussions. If they choose to form a relationship with him as an adult, that is their choice. That is how I would handle this situation. My answer would be different if the abuse were longer lasting and even more traumatic and different still if it was a one time incident with one girl. But given what we know about this particular situation, that's how I would probably handle it.
I completely agree. It is also complicated here by the fact that even as adults the girls are not allowed to live on their own unless they are married. So those unmarried are still forced to see him even if they don't want to. The men, be it Josh or JimBob, have all the power in their lives.
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I was such a big fan of the family. I mean I did not become Baptist or have 20 kids. But I loved the show, have all their books, and did not understand the "haters"
Soooooo, I feel dumb.
Am I the only one? Every one else on here is like, "I never liked them," "I always suspected," is there no one else who bought the lies but me?
There should have been immediate and severe reactions after the first incident, protections for girls. It is so very clear there was not.
You are not dumb and you are not alone. I do not like the Duggars but it was related to using their girls to raise their kids and doing a really poor job of homeschooling while acting like a homeschool representative. But I never in a million years imagined incest and cover-up. I wager to say that most people whether they liked the Duggars or not are stunned.
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It definitely doesn't make sense. If it's ok for the parents to just call up and see the kids whenever they want, they wouldn't have needed to remove the kids from their custody. I think Nicole is just flat out lying.
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Also, if you read the notes on that link about how ATI counsels SA victims, Gothard actually teaches that your assaulter has actually DONE YOU A FAVOR by "inoculating you against lust." As is, now that you are repulsed by even the idea of sexual activity because of your trauma, you won't be bothered by impure thoughts anymore. Whoo hoo.
It's the grossest thing I've ever read.
Vulgar, sick, and disgusting. How anyone can believe this stuff is beyond me.
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A reminder, this is how their cult counsels sexual abuse victims. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/
I've read this before but every time I see it I want to be sick.
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Well, there is healthy sexual curiosity-that happens between friends of the same sex, friends of the opposite sex, and (I imagine) even siblings who arent' the same sex. Sort of a you show me yours thing. I can understand that, and parents need to be aware that this happens and how to handle it.
But fondling is of a different order all together. How do we know it was fondling? I am playing devil's advocate here, fwiw.
In the police report that was published it says he touched breasts and vaginal areas while the girls were asleep or they would wake to find him touching them. It also refers to a time he put his hand up one of the sister's dresses. That's fondling - not healthy sexual curiosity.
I will say that the Duggar's obsession with sexual thoughts and feelings being evil unless you are married probably made it difficult for a boy with budding sexual feelings to know how to deal with them in a healthy way. But that doesn't make it ok.
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Most of them were his own sisters. There is some question as to whether is was also his cousin Amy but it was primarily his sisters.
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I don't think we could ever hear from the girls even if we heard from the girls. They are so controlled by and dependent on Jim Bob and Michele that they really can't speak their minds. If they think Josh is an evil pervert, there is no way that is going to be allowed to be said. If they come out and say he is forgiven and all is well, we can't know if they really mean that or if Jim Bob is playing puppet master.
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Accusations in the past against Josh Duggar? (warning: sensitive content)
in The Chat Board
Posted
I'm just guessing because all of this is just so difficult to understand, but I wonder if in her mind saying she knows helps support the idea that it was just a 'teenage mistake'. She may figure that if people think she knows all the truth including everything we don't know and she still married him than maybe it isn't so bad.
Another possibility is that she feels like she has no choice. Josh and the Duggars could be telling her what to do and she's doing it.
Maybe I'm being naive. That's certainly possible. I just have an really tough time imagining that a family would knowingly let their daughter married someone if they knew he was a child molester of his own sisters.