I was thinking just this morning about when I first signed up for CC. I really didn't understand how it was going to work but I knew from the info meeting that if my children could accomplish what the director was describing, I was in! I think it's better to visit a campus and see how it works (and if that particular campus' culture suits you;)) - along with attending an info meeting beforehand. Last year was CC's first year in our area so we had to take a leap of faith. Since it is a co-op but oh-so-very-different than a typical co-op, it's hard to see the big picture. I'm not sure I see any disadvantages of my children memorizing the information at CC - whether it's out of context or not. For instance, we have several families who do TOG and Sonlight. When they signed up they continued with that curriculum. I, on the other hand, went ahead and planned my history and science according to what we would be studying in CC (Am. His., US Geography, Human Body, Chemistry, etc.). It worked out very well. However, even if we had been studying Ancients at home (like some families were), there would be no disadvantages of taking 20 min. a day to maintain the facts that my children were learning at CC - 160 pt. World History Timeline, presidents, 24 Am. History sentences, English Grammar definitions, US states and capitals, and a crazy amount of geography (ds can draw the mountain ranges on a blank map, poineer trails, 10 prominent features + more). There's just no disadvantage to that imo. It's basic information that I could treat like memorization work. How in depth one goes into it is up to the parent at home. DS (10) and I could read about the facts and chat while my dd(5) can't even say Monroe Doctrine (she says Monroe Doctriss:P) but at her age, memorizing is just for fun. She's focusing on reading, writing, and math. Whatever she gets out of CC is a bonus. She didn't even attend last year and picked up on more than you would believe just listening to the songs in the car. Does she "get" it? No. But she can recognize George Washington, states, and more just through the exposure. Since there are 3 cycles repeated over 3 years, she will encounter the info again. Each time she revisits it, she will understand more, going a little deeper each time. This year my history plans aren't going to line up exactly with CC. We'll motor right along and I'll bring in living books about the history they are learning at CC. I don't think it'll be a big deal. I want my children to learn more than just the facts they are memorizing but how much I give them depends on their age. Plus, some of the facts they will be memorizing are so basic - multiplication tables, English grammar definitions, irregular verbs and their tenses, timeline, dates/events in history - it can only help them when they get into the dialectic/rhetoric stage. DS is going into dialectic and also participated in Essentials. His knowledge of grammar through learning the defs. in Foundations and practicing them in Essentials blew me away. Frankly, it made my head hurt! I need more resources to keep up with him:) Gotta go - but real quick. The Essentials text is very thorough and can work on different age levels - much like IEW. DS was in 4th grade when he took it and it's going to take another couple of years for him to completely master the info. That said, he did an amazing job this year and is not at all intimidated by grammar, diagramming, etc. In fact, he asks for more sentences to diagram.

For Foundations I would get the guide, audio cd, and VP timeline cards. Then join C3 somewhere along the way. That's it. I have the other books but I have never pull them out. It just depends on what else you have going on in your schedule. DS is 11 so we've got plenty.

I just can't seem to stop myself from posting:blush5: This thread has been educational for me as far as the differing experiences/expectations that others have had w/CC. MamaBlessedThrice - I'm not sure I would have joined either if the director couldn't/wouldn't answer my questions about the program. What's surprising to me is that your questions were relevant and not at all difficult to answer. CC is what you want it to be and it is up to you how it fits into your homeschooling experience. Some people use it for their whole curriculum adding phonics/reading and math. Some people just like being part of a Classical Christian community and if their kids memorize some facts out of it, great! Quite a few families I know do Sonlight or TOG with CC so CC cannot possibly be the center of their lesson plans. I also know for sure that CC does not wish to usurp the parents role in any way. That's why the tutors are not called teachers. At the younger level, the tutors present the information and it's up to the parent to reinforce it at home (or not, it's their choice). It's grammar so there is no in depth study. However, the 5th-6th grade level will be given more info than the 4 yr. olds for instance but it is always the parents choice as to what to do with it at home. The Challenge levels are different simply because students are in the dialectic/rhetorical stage. Still, the tutors are not master teachers. They are tutors. Actually, some parents do not sign their children up for Challenge because the brunt of the teaching falls on them - unlike university model co-ops or jr. colleges. Challenge tutors are faciliators that essentially guide the class and model a love of learning while learning along with the students. Parents could certainly do that at home but it would be difficult to gather a group of peers together to discuss/debate the same assignments and experience the integration of all of the subjects. IMO, CC is going to make it easier for me to continue educating my children classically during the latter years. Some of your questions seemed more geared toward a typical school model. Maybe that's why the director didn't know what to do with them. We don't do assessments (unless you're going for memory master). Scope and sequence is on the site. It was decided on by Leigh (and other I'm sure) to prepare students for Challenge and give a foundation for basic knowledge in most subjects. Leigh's experience can be found on the site I'm sure as well as a mission statement. I think it's important to remember that (imo) classical education is training the child how to learn so, in the grammar state for instance, it's about learning to memorize. What he memorizes is secondary. CC's grammar of the subjects is good and I'm glad somebody organized it for me:) Training is not a magical experience that downloads information into the tutor's brain. Tutors are not there to educate your children - that's the parents role. They present the information. From what I gather the training if about defining their role and practical information (how to prepare for class, present, etc.). I've gone through Challenge I training this past month so I'm going by my personal experience. CC is different things to different families. It has changed the way I homeschool. Like Angela in Ohio stated, I am pursuing a deeper understanding of classical education (NOT a deeper understanding of CC). I have learned more this past year from other moms, "new" Classical ed. books, and workshops than ever before. While A. in O. and I may both enjoy CC and educating our children classically, I can almost guarantee we're not going about things the exact same way. If you are ever interested again MamaBlessedThrice, try looking at a different campus (if there is one). I hope you have better luck!

http://www.classicalconversationsbooks.com/tasqandcudo.html This is a download pdf for $5 that does multliplication, squares and cubes. I thought there was a sample somewhere... Basically, you put the sheets in page protectors and work on them w/a dry erase. There are three columns with the facts with different directions for each. Ex. for the 6's it would have them 0X6 through 12X6 running down the page in three columns. First the directions say chant (answers on sheet), next column chant + write, then write. On the next page will be three columns but the problems will be out of order. It's simple, yet effective. My sister uses it w/her students at public school. You could make something similar on your own but for $5, I'm glad someone else did it for me.

:lurk5:

I'm sad to hear that people have had the type of experience with CC that would come down to "a business disguised as a ministry." So disappointing. I don't think of it as either. We are group of like minded families who want to educate our children classicall with a Christian worldview. We also want our children to socialize in a safe environment with other families we have come to know and feel are good influences. I can see how it is possible for a director to be motivated by the possibility of income but I hope it's not a typical experience people are having. It's not a motivating factor on our campus. I also know for certain that many families in our campus already knew each other from other co-ops. However, after a couple of weeks, you couldn't distinguish between the families who knew each other before hand and new families. I guess we are a ridiculously happy campus! We do have chores but everything is on rotation so some weeks you may have nothing to do. However, to make things go faster, I have noticed that all the moms pitch in instead of leaving the tasks for 2 people. Moms are pitching in by choice, to serve the community, out of kindness. The cost of CC feels expensive during the summer - because that's when tuition is due! Since everything is prepaid, it does pinch but it's worth it for us. It's no more expensive than other co-ops in my area. Also, since this is our second year, I already have all of the supplies so I don't have to rebuy. I'm not buying the new guide since I have the corrections. I'm not buying the computer cd since we didn't use it last year. Really the only thing you need is the guide. Buy it once and be done with it. Easy peasy. CC has changed the way we homeschool. I feel more successful aligning my goals with CC material. It is a supplement (except for essentials - that is heavy duty writing and grammar) but I use it as a guide to my lesson plans. It keeps me moving foreward. I have learned a few teaching techniques and my son has definitely benefitted from the accountability CC provides as well. He tried for Memory Master this year and, although he wasn't successful, it was really the first time he'd ever studied. Not only did we both learn how he studies best, he also got to experience taking an oral examination. He was so nervous! He's undaunted, though, and will try again next year. (FYI, memory master is when a student attempts to pass an oral examination by 4 different adults - parent, another cc parent, tutor and director - over EVERYTHING he has learned in CC.) I'm also thinking of CC in the long term. What ds is getting now in Foundations/Essentials will prepare him for the Challenge levels. I am committed to continuing to educate my children classically in the jr. high/high school years. I want to provide them with a group to discuss ideas/debate during the dialectic and rhetorical stages. Challenge and the curriculum is ideal for that imo.

Wow, there's a lot of info here that really stumps me. We did CC last year and loved it. I plan on being a part of our community long - term. Some of the info posted on this thread sounds particular to that specific community the poster encountered - for ex. the dinosaur thing? I have no idea what that's about. Or people being asked to bring in science supplies after they have paid a supplies fee? I didn't have that experience either. My experience has been awesome. My 10 yr. old participated in Foundations and Essentials. It was our best year ever. Here's my take: the program is supplemental, provided accountability, provided socializing experiences, P.E, fieldtrip opportunities with "school" friends, great mom time for me, and much more. I know everyone is going to have a different experience but it really sounds like it depends on the culture of the community. My community was organized, positive, supportive, and enthusiastic about being together as Christian families with similar goals for our children. I realize that people involved with CC have the potential to make $$ - I recently completed training myself for Challenge. However, the director and tutors on our campus work very hard and I'm happy that they can be compensated. I'm not naive and, frankly, no amount of $$ could lure me into becoming the director for Foundations/Essentials. That's a lot of work! I feel fortunate to have been brought together with these other families by CC. It is a joyful, prayerful campus that has added to our homeschooling experience in many ways. My enthusiasm and commitment to teaching my children classically has been revived. We are reaping the benefits. I have a ring of over 100 flashcard (multiple facts on most) that ds has memorized plus the Veritas Press World History Timeline. That's good work for the year. Not to mention the giant leaps he took with English Grammar and writing through Essentials. Does he know exactly what Henry the Navigator (a timeline peg) did? No... not yet. He's in between the grammar/dialectic phase so the time is coming and we'll be going deeper this year since he has the pegs down. I'm excited! Could you do the book portion of this at home? Absolutely. I can't argue with you there. It's just so much more fun with friends. Ds is also more motivated. If I did this at home, it would just be another program or book that I pulled off the shelf. Like everything else available to homeschoolers, the fit is going to vary. It was a great fit for us. Also, keep in mind, all campuses aren't going to feel the same or give the exact same experience. I'm absolutey nuts for ours:D but our director is amazing. She is committed to the CC guidelines but she also has a great desire to create a like minded community of families that will stay together and provide support, knowledge, fun, etc.

http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/classical/daulaires.htm Has anyone used this? I was thinking about just getting the teacher's guide to use to talk through the myth's with ds. I don't feel the need for him to do worksheets, etc. but it might be useful as a guide. April

We've been using HWOT for a couple of years. It's a good solid program. My ds is a leftie and he had gotten in some pretty terrible writing habits. The program helped clean his writing up but, since he's older, he needs a different kind of practice than the work book offered. The program is still solid imo. However, all of a sudden this semester I began to dislike HWOT. It's a good program but it really is not attractive script. Since I'm beginning to teach my dd to write this year I decided to switch to a different style. I'm going to teach them italics. My plan is to use Penny Gardner's "A Beautiful Handwriting for Children" and StartWrite. We'll see how that goes. April

I just bought a used PM set w/no puzzle pieces. However, I can get blank puzzle pieces online that I can decorate myself. I was wondering what the pieces look like. I don't want to copy them exactly - I'm sure that's not even possible. I just wanted to know what they look like. Thanks, April

It's not just about the subject matter (Latin). It's about the process of learning. Learning how to think. Being able to dismantle information, learn it, and make it your own. Have her read this - #3 in particular http://www.latincentered.com/node/7/#1 There are lots of good articles on that site as well as the Memoria Press site. April

Erin, I am so sorry this happened. My family was part of CC last year and we are very excited and looking forward to continuing in the fall. I don't think the problem is a CC issue but the actual person who made the comment. As others have mentioned, there is a clear statement of faith on the website. Even then, you don't have to agree with it as a participant. The VP timeline cards are the only true possible issue I'm aware of and the offending statements are on the back of the cards (which are not discussed in class or don't have to be - just let the tutor know you find the remarks offensive). We have a wonderful campus with a great community. I have found that we are like-minded and support each other in our Christian homeschooling and parenting. However, I have no idea what specific denomination each family is! It's never discussed. We discuss God, Jesus, sin, salvation, but never in a way that's been offensive or exclusionary. No one's walking on eggshells either. I think we're all so committed to creating a supportive, friendly Christian community that we focus on our common goals and desires as Christians. I don't mean to sound trite but I am truly grateful for the blessings I feel the Lords has bestowed upon our particular group. Just like schools, churches, etc., each group is going to create their own "culture" based on the it's members. I certainly hope that this group is not anti-Catholic or passing judgement, and if you still have a desire to be a part of CC, you should consider speaking with the Director. She will probably be thankful that you brought this to her attention because flippant, offensive comments like that could offend other families. Is it possible the lady was an attendee and not a member of the community?? Doing it at home is certainly an option. It could work, especially if you found other families to participate. However, there is going to be some preparation and responsibilities to commit to - gathering supplies for art, science, setup/cleanup, etc. For me, it's a load off my shoulders being able to show up and have everything ready (although we do have community responsibilities that we rotate - supervising play, cleaning, nursery). Plus, I'm not sure if you get the tutor training if you do it on your own. Tutor training isn't absolutely necessary but I have picked up a few things that helped me be a better teacher at home. Also, if you are interested in Essentials, the CC bookstore states it's only available to families enrolled in a program. I'm not sure how they keep up with that but it's a little FYI. Good luck! I hope you consider reaching out to the director of the program. Even if you decide not to join, I hope the director thanks you for letting her know so she can discuss the problem with her community. April