zaichiki
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Posts posted by zaichiki
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The woman who drove into a crowd at a college homecoming in OK was sentenced this week. A plea deal. She killed 5 people and injured more. I am pretty sure she was mentally ill. I haven't delved into the story to be positive but she claims she was suffering from severe psychosis.
For those who disagree that involuntary treatment should not be a priorty --
If she had been treated, even involuntarily committed, those 5 people would be alive today. Whose rights are more important (her right to freedom/not treatment or their right to live)???
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Furthermore, you can't just say that only the people who really really need to be institutionalized (however you define that, if you're expanding it in scope from right now, where you can only be forced if you're a danger to yourself or others) will be forced into it.
Instead, you'd have to recognize that for every person who, according to the new criteria, needed institutionalization and was forced into it, 3 more people who *didn't* really need it would be forced into it. That kind of power creep seems really dangerous to me.
We can do it *right* just like we can do other types of emergency health care ethically.
Obviously we need creative thinkers to solve this problem, because we can't just go back to the way we, as a society, treated mental illness "before." It didn't work well. I think we all acknowledge that.
But we CAN do it right and save lives if we will only prioritize it.
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Before jumping to the difficult question of involuntary treatment, it would be important to have treatment accessible at all. Long waiting lists to even get to see a mental health professional for an initial consultation, high cost of therapy and meds, limited insurance coverage and insurance availability, lack of beds for inpatient treatment - there are so many things that could be improved to help people long before it has to come to involuntary hospitalization. For many, it's not possible to receive help even if they desperately want to.
I don't believe one has to come before the other. Involuntary treatment is often the MOST necessary kind. We *can* do it simultaneously (if there are no people "queing" for the treatment, it will not be made accessible because there are those who will not see it as urgent).
People who need involuntary treatment need to be moved to the "top of the list" (not that there SHOULD be a waiting list -- there shouldn't -- we should put our money where our mouths are and make this happen YESTERDAY. These people are the ones who have been deemed dangerous to themselves and others. Innocent lives are at risk if we prioritize voluntary services over emergency, involuntary treatment.
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The mental institutions and abusive involuntary confinement and treatments had horrible problems, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way now. In theory you can be confined and treated for your own protection when you are danger to yourself or others, but in practice it's hardly seamless. It's a mess.
THIS!
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I am in favor of forced treatment for some mental illnesses and this is why --
One of the *symptoms* of schizophrenia is not wanting treatment. Can you imagine not treating a physical illness because the person was suffering with one of its symptoms?
We have to think of mental illness just as we do physical illnesses -- beyond the control of the person suffering -- and yet they still deserve help.
Once schizophrenics are in treatment, they usually appreciate being able to function. Why keep help from them because they are unable (due to the disease) to ask for help?
When it comes to some forms of mental illness (like schizophrenia) I am also concerned about safety of others.People with schizophrenia harm and kill themselves and others while they are delusional. (Obviously not all. But it happens.) I'm not ready to say that the rights of the person with schizophrenia not to get treatment overrule the right of another person to live (or to be safe). For many years mentally ill people in NYC have pushed others to their death on the subway tracks. For the narrow minded -- I am not suggesting all deaths on subway tracks have happened this way, but the simple fact is that it has happened many times over the years, and if each of those people had been in forced treatment, each of those dead and/or injured would be alive and well today. That is just one example. People with schizophrenia kill others (and themselves) in other ways. We cannot save all innocent lives, but here is one example where treatment can prevent MANY innocent deaths if we will just provide it.
I grew up loving a family member with schizophrenia, so I know what the disease looks like, how it affects lives, and how it can be treated. My family member was involuntarily treated fore most of her adult life (for years before I was born that meant occasional institutionalization and repeated electric shock therapy, but during my lifetime it meant pills and then, later, time-released injections of medicine). She was involuntarily treated because not wanting treatment is part of the disease. Please remember that it didn't mean she didn't *want to* or *deserve to* function normally. Truthfully, though, she never really functioned normally because even with treatment (allowing function) schizophrenia is always there affecting her daily. But she could think mostly clearly and her own personality was able to emerge when she was treated. Plus, she was safe to herself and others -- safe to be and safe to love. The most important part , IMO, is the safety of innocent others, NO ONE should have to be harmed or die at the hands of another because of a treatable disease that is not being treated. And again, just because it cannot be stated loudly enough, the rights of other people for safety override the right of the sufferer (but IS it a right if not wanting treatment is a symptom they cannot control???) not to be treated.
It goes without saying that we need adequate amounts of money to be put into care so it is accessible and ethical. IMO we could find it in our government's budget if we decided it was a priority to save these lives (above some of the other places we put our money...).
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First, don't expect him to read 6th grade level books, even ones with a lower interest level. Don't even expect him to read 3rd grade level books. It's okay if he reads and enjoys Lunch Lady or Frog and Toad or Captain Underpants or a pile of Garfield comics. And that's the sort of stuff that I'd strew for him - high interest, silly, boy centered, fun books. Joke books. Gross out books. DK eyewitness type books. Comic books - things like Garfield or Calvin and Hobbes, but also little kid appeal superhero comics like Tiny Titans or Super Dinosaur and newer graphic novel style books like Lunch Lady, Squish, Flying Beaver Bros, etc.
I think it's really about romancing him to books. Read in front of him. Read aloud. Play games with words. Play games with books. Just hang out at the library. Listen to audiobooks in the car. Read books and watch the movie of the book. Tell stories and play games with stories. Just be patient.
Every word of this!
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Reading, writing, math - 1-2 hours total per day. Not necessarily in one stretch. Read before bed. A bit of math after breakfast in the kitchen. Use audiobooks if you don't have time to read aloud. Have them read to their siblings if you don't have time to listen. or better yet: have them read with Dad :)
And keep in mind that in other countries, formal schooling does not begin until age 6 or 7.
I just love this response!
Yes: reading, writing, and math. An hour of that, total, for the six year old could easily be done in 15 minute chunks spaced throughout the day.
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Dog #1 -- a mix breed we got from a neighbor at 4 yrs old. Neighbor had adopted her from local humane society (*which had gotten her shipped from the streets of Puerto Rico) at 1 y.o. She was fine with kids, but didn't crave interaction (liked to be off by herself a lot). Had her until she passed at 14. Miss her sweet face.
Dog #2 -- 1 y.o. Corgi. Found on a Corgi Breed Facebook page because owner was trying to rehome. He quickly became unpredictable and aggressive. Insanely intelligent. Bit one son. Intimidated the kids. We loved him because he was so adorable, and when he wanted to be he could be so much fun. But he was difficult, "moody," and we just couldn't safely manage him. After six months we were able to find his breeder (backyard breeder) and she took him back. Thank God!
Dogs #3 and 4 -- five and seven y.o. Poodle/Bichon Frise crosses. Found on PetFinder. Contacted the animal rescue that listed them. Went to visit. Fell in love. Turns out they had been purchased as "designer breed" puppies and lived their whole lives with one family until that family fell on hard times (divorce, job loss, and moving given as reasons). Great with kids. So sweet and super affectionate. Smart. Obedient. Total lap dogs. (Some anxiety and separation anxiety.) We are so lucky!
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Well that's disappointing.
FWIW, placement would be a deal breaker for me. However, this doesn't exactly sound right, that they wouldn't allow a higher placement, at least in math. I suspect that they'd allow a higher placement as long as the proper placement tests were passed. (Otherwise few would ever reach calc.)
Disappointing.
FWIW I've had individual teachers tell me there was no acceleration available, but when administrators were approached with "proof" (like AP scores or transcripts or even work samples), a different answer was given. Years ago I walked away from a school based on the answer a teacher gave... and the lack of answers when asked about acceleration... It is eye-rolling ridiculousness.
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For me, that was one of those light bulb moments when I realized that we all are born into a ton of obstacles, disabilities, and limitations while given only a few gifts. Nonetheless, there is one set of legal behavioral norms.
By meeting many people with the absolute most horrific backgrounds and seeing the achievements in their lives, I know that there is not much that cannot be overcome.
Wow. For real?
We have NOT *all* been born into a ton of obstacles, disabilities, and limitations. Typical American childhoods are NOT like those lived in poverty, abuse, and neglect. To lump all childhoods together like that shows you have no. idea. Well, good for you that you didn't have to live a horrible childhood. Yeah... woohoo for you. I guess I can be glad for you that you didn't need to suffer like that in your childhood.
There is plenty that is nearly impossible to overcome.
Walk a mile in someone else's shoes...
Seriously.
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the next time you are shaking your head about the adult who can't get their life together, you remember what their childhood might have been. And that this will affect the choices you make with your wallet and your ballot.
Amen! This bears repeating!
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Does she want to finish college early, or is she more interested in (relatively) on-time college, which in itself can be a great experience, at a more elite level?
I was just discussing this perspective with ds and a friend in my car after a very long Robotics meeting. Ds and a bunch of his friends had the option of graduating high school early and heading to college early... but they decided that they'd rather do dual-enrollment and have a better chance of getting into an elite college at the typical age (being old enough to live in the dorm on their own, having a more well-rounded college experience, etc.). They actually said something very like, "Well, we could have probably gotten into X University earlier, but if we did dual-enrollment and waited, our applications would be a lot stronger and we have a good chance and Y and Z Universities. Yeah... who wants to go to X University?" -- followed by brisk laughter. (I suppose this is elitist, but it's reality for them. Their applications are more competitive and they are more mature than they were two years ago, and college will be a completely different experience for them next year than it would have, while living at home, last year or the year before.)
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This depends more on her long-term goals than anything else. Does she want to finish college early, or is she more interested in (relatively) on-time college, which in itself can be a great experience, at a more elite level?
Homeschooling plus early college is going to get her a degree early at the cost of peers.
This.
I admit that I was a bit surprised at how important good age-peer friendships have been to my two oldest kids. When they were younger, they loved hanging out with friends, but they were pretty happy away from friends, too. Now, as high school aged kids, they really crave that connection with age-peers. I am so relieved that they have made those strong connections with some really great kids.
**Adding that attending school is not necessary to develop those strong peer connections, but for those who have limited means to find them outside of school, it can be a valid reason to consider school.
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I need to get DS 10 to stop putting capital N's in the middle of words. His name is Henry so you would think he'd have this down by now. :laugh:
My younger ds still uses upper and lowercase letters, randomly, when writing in print. But his cursive is neat and accurate. I cannot understand why he struggles so much with print, but that, along with other symptoms (letters varying size, not able to keep them on the line, very slow writing, and a HUGE and CONSTANT desire to avoid any tiny amount of physical writing at all), makes me think he may have dysgraphia. I think I should probably get him tested because if it is not remediated it *will* hold him back when/if he ever goes to school (including college) and in his adult life.
Ds does a small amount of cursive writing each day (taking dictation). Now that he's getting older, the amount of writing is slowly increasing. I'm getting better at remembering to wave a carrot before each session (which helps him stay focused and avoids the emotional breakdowns), but I don't think I should *have* to do that. According to my experience with my other three kids, small amounts of writing should be mostly pain-free by 10/11...
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Just reading here, too. LOTS of reading (frequent trips to the library where kids choose stacks of books and I also assign reading from Sonlight that coincides with our history studies).
This is also the time we begin a formal, phonics-based spelling program (All About Spelling) and cursive handwriting instruction that soon doubles as grammar, usage, and mechanics through dictation.
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How is this celebrated? Also, which religions celebrate it? I know what is it, I don't know what traditions might be done associated with it.
My husband grew up Catholic and even went to Catholic schools. But the other day he commented that he was surprised to see so many people still have their lights up. I said many people leave the lights up through the Epiphany. He asked me what the Epiphany was.
I went to Catholic schools and we were *always* off on the Epiphany. Was your dh's family religious when he was growing up?
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Epiphany, or Three Kings Day, is a big holiday in Latino communities. NYC has a parade with camels, etc.
Ds attends a public school in an inner city (lots of Latino families) and they are off for Three Kings Day every year.
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My ds, the one who loves Beast Academy, adores comic books and jokes. Adores monster themes... totally PORES over those books! The layout of the Beast guide books is exactly right for him. If your ds doesn't like that sort of thing, I can't imagine Beast would go over very well... You might consider going straight to the AoPS Pre-algebra.
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NYC has a number of options for high performing students, including (but not limited to) the rather famous specialized high schools. (My sister and I each attended a specialized high school and frankly, I think those schools are overrated.)
However, the NYC high school admissions process is super stressful, and trying to navigate to one of the more competitive schools (excepting the ones that do entrance solely via the SHSAT) as a homeschooler is no fun.
Stuy is overrated, for reals. That's where I went. Hunter, you have to take the test 6th grade - and I don't know how you go about getting invited to take the test if you didn't take the statewide tests in 5th grade. With that said, you can live in NYC on a not enormous income - the median income in my neighborhood is only about 50k per household. That's not tiny, but it's not huge either, and we aren't that far away from Manhattan.
Agree with the above.
Another thing to consider is the school culture. Bronx Science (one of those specialized NYC high schools) is very competitive. Some of the kids are "cut-throat" competitive. A friend's son, who started Calculus in 8th grade, attended and felt that it was very stressful there. The experience has "broken" some kids (a couple of friends of friend's son)... although they were very advanced, perhaps another school would have been a better choice for their mental health.
My ds attends an early college model high school that is also a STEM "magnet" public school in an inner city. (I think it is unique in the US and perhaps this info alone is enough to idenitfy it, although I prefer not to share my location.) It is *not* a competitive environment. Ds does not find it stressful. Several of his buddies have been taking their math classes through the university (the high school is on the campus) since freshman year (so... Calculus and up), and yet there is no competitive "I'm going to get into MIT instead of you" kind of mindset. He and his friends have very collaborative, supportive relationships, which is exactly the right fit for this ds.
So... your child may do well in a stressful/competitive environment, or not... Be aware that schools offering advanced classes/class options can go either way. Having advanced academic options does not necessarily mean a stressful/competitive environment, but some operate that way.
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ds(17) is a high school senior applying to colleges as an aerospace engineering major. He decided two years ago, but I think it has always been there... when he was little he thought he wanted to be a fighter pilot... then it was a test pilot... now he wants to make the plans that the test pilots fly. (Thank Goodness! Now Mom can breathe!)
dd(14) is a high school freshman. She decided last year that she wants to attend a very selective conservatory and she is serious. Since she was 7 she's been saying she wants to be a "professional violist," so it's not a surprise.
ds(11) has said for years that he's going to be an inventor. For years! He's never said anything else (we encourage discussion about many professions, interests, etc., but for him it has always been inventing). He talks all the time about all the stuff he's going to invent. Can't wait to look back on this is ten years... LOL
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My son does not like timed exams. In fact, he may have some sort of disability in that department. This only came to light because he attended public school for a semester and got 100% on all his homeworks, but routinely got 70% on his exams; he often spends a lot of time checking and rechecking his homework, always has, but I never thought it was a huge issue. So there may be a problem there, or it may just be something he needs to work on. Anyway, that was a little off topic.
He does not relish the idea of a course centered around an exam, TBH. He is a good student: focused, prompt, responsible, and does his work well. And I do think AP classes would benefit him. He wants to go to a good, selective college (not neccesarily an Ivy League, but a good school) but is leaning towards more experiential, close-knit and student-oriented schools like Antioch, Goddard, marlboro, and Rice as a stretch. He does not like a competitive atmosphere, but a more collegial and team-oriented one. He's actually mentioned numerous times to me his interest in attending college abroad, but not sure how that works.
SO. Would he benefit from taking AP classes? If so, how many? He could take Calc next year, is interested in Poli Sci and Psychology...but i am afraid for him to take the class and get a 2 on the test, simply because he's not a good test-taker.
Thoughts?
I think my oldest is similar. He took one AP class and did not like the format. His other advanced classes have been concurrent enrollment and dual-enrollment. MUCH better! He much prefers a class that is NOT centered around preparing for a test.
ETA: My ds took those concurrent/dual-enrollment classes NOT at CCs, but at well-regarded 4-yr universities that have an agreement with his high school. His opinion is that these classes offered a better educational experience than the AP class, which was all memorize/regurgitate. That is his experience, but your college class options may be different and so YMMV.
AP classes/tests are becoming less and less popular where I am -- in favor of college classes. A friend has been a college prof for years and was recently appointed as a dean. She encourages her own kids to take as FEW AP classes as possible. (Her kids have terrific grades, good test scores, and get into/attend top drawer universities.) She has said she is not impressed with the result of those AP classes and sees little benefit for the kids (her perspective from what she has seen in her classrooms/students at her university).
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He may feel he cannot discipline oldest, so he takes out his frustration on the child who is more easily cowed.
We have moments like this in with certain family members...
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Can I have two?
Probably this.
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Thank you, ma'am, I'll get Brother...
They are super about fairness and clinical equality between them!
"Ma'am?"
Do you live in the South?
And if so, do kids in the South really call their mothers "Ma'am?"
Opening A Discussion On Severe Mental Illness
in The Chat Board
Posted
In my experience, Paranoid Schizophrenia is always scary when the person is having an episode. It is scary to see someone "not themselves" and doing illogical and unpredictable things. You see immediately that they are capable of doing *anything.* That is scary. (And then weapons can be involved... or normal, everyday things can be wielded as weapons by otherwise sweet and loving people...)