Thanks for not kind of flying off the handle because I don't always agree. Forums can sometimes be so reactionary. We met with the OT last week and I and the kids LOVED her. She has gifted kids with sensory issues herself, has been working in OT specifically for sensory issues in one of the top 5 children's hospitals in the country for 20 years and came highly recommended by the faculty at our alma mater. She strenuously agreed that they were not autistic. She and my oldest daughter are going to start Zones of Regulation together tomorrow and she will also do an hour with my son (the resistant eater.) So good to have a little momentum here. Has anyone tried a weighted blanket? One of the things that has been a constant for years is that my now eight year old is emotional and anxious about going to sleep. She doesn't resist bedtime but sometimes loses it when she gets up there. We have sat in the room actively managing her behavior while she goes to sleep since she was two. I wouldn't expect a weighted blanket to sweep all of that away but we've considered getting one to help.

My husband and I have thought carefully about and discussed the responses here. We want to do what is best for our children but we are just NOT sure that diagnosis for gifted kids with pure SPD is always beneficial or warranted. I am aware that some will disagree and I think each parent has to navigate these waters and advocate for their child in the way they think best. There is plenty of professional debate about SPD, it's diagnosis and the efficacy of specific therapies and treatments. I am an exhaustive researcher and I have not ever read any thing to suggest that my kids have either ASD1 or ADP. They are just missing far to many important symptoms. I feel confident that you would likely agree if you met them. This is not to say that I don't want to do anything in my power to help them cope with their sensory issues and I will continue to do so.

The last bit you typed about teaching independence describes precisely the way in which I have tried to teach it. And yes, HARD. Though in the long run I have seen progress. It's always so hard to tell the whole story in a post like this and easy to feel like people just don't "get" it when they respond. I was frustrated and it had been a hard day when I originally posted though it would be unwise to walk back to far from the things I said above because in many ways they are accurate. Yesterday was a better day; today has been another hard one. So. My kids have not had evals of any kind. Part of the reason for this is that two of my sisters are OTs/Speech Pathologists. They do not think the kids are autistic. I do not think the kids are autistic. A piece of the puzzle that I did not mention above because I wanted to be broadly relatable and have learned to be careful about mentioning is that at they are all gifted (evaluated as such) and one is profoundly so . I am aware that a lot of gifted kids are twice-exceptional but with regard to autism I just don't see it. I see so many peripheral sensory issues that are often associated with autism but not the heart of autism itself. For example, my son was a toe walker, hydrophobic and had frequent hours-long meltdowns as a two year old. My daughter struggles with emotional control that sometimes prevents her from doing normal tasks and continually seeks and makes her own auditory chaos. The word that best describes her character is "relentless." Many of these qualities are found in the autistic population but both children are empathetic, very verbally adept and make friends easily. They intuitively understand and respond to social cues from peers and adults far better than I did at their age. When I say they are gifted I recognize a broad spectrum of talents and abilities that can manifest as giftedness. In their case they are fairly "global". No one is a savant per se. The child who excels at math is also a reader and an excellent writer for his age. I think if I were dealing with autism I would see at least some symptoms that were either social or verbal. We have a great community here and I have many friends who homeschool young children but I can't think of anyone who would understand why our home can be so intense. I posted in large part hoping to find someone who understood. In my social group, kids who refuse food and have meltdowns post-toddlerhood are generally thought of as poorly parented. I'm so weary of doubling down and trying harder only to find that it's not enough. I think I was hoping to find someone to relate to. PS-I can anticipate the responses so let me emphasize that ours is not an unusually strict or judgmental social set. Just families who are fairly consistent and thoughtful and who by and large reap the results of good parenting. Had I never parented kids who had sensory issues I myself might have assumed they were under-structured/under-disciplined.

Is this a Classical school? My moderately gifted DD attends a Classical study center two days a week that has a similar schedule (8-3). She is in 3rd grade and only goes twice a week so I am more comfortable with the amount of time spent. They also play vigorous gym games at the beginning and have three breaks throughout the day. I spoke with the headmistress before we enrolled her about grade skipping and was informed that they've tried it before with poor results. I agree with a previous poster that I have some sympathy with the teachers. Even in my homeschool I have seen things fall apart when I've allowed one kid to work in a way that appears to siblings to be slacking off. In our case what has been allowed is pulling her out early. I pick her up from the center before Math (which similarly is the last subject of the day) and teach that at home. I wonder if a previous poster's suggestion of pulling the kid earlier in the day (9-5 does seem long on the daily) and having a tutor work with him. It's far less disruptive for the other kids if he's out of sight out of mind. I also wonder if the pressure will lighten as the child gets older. My oldest was miles ahead at that age and plateaud enough to find fourth grade work interesting in most subjects. This is only one grade ahead and while I know she could work harder I am happy that she seems to be enjoying it and thriving. Humanities subjects especially can be sort of naturally differentiated in that a student can always learn to write better, the Illiad is always worth reading, etc... On the other hand I am very concerned that a natural slow-down is not coming for my now five year old. There are times when you're just dealing with a square peg and a round hole. Given the length of the school day and the full-time arrangement that may be the case here.

Thank you! Hmm. I worked through your response and thought and researched each suggestion. So here's where we are on those: Retained Reflexes- I'll be honest, I've never heard of them. I think my kids would be enthusiastic about the exercises though and it seems entirely harmless to work through them as part of our morning routine. Sensory Diet - Though things have kind of come to a head recently I have a fairly high "sensory IQ" as a parent and we've always tried to work a lot of the things OTs recommend into our days. We have an indoor hammock swing that spins and is used throughout the day, we have an indoor trampoline, we play music during transitions and in the morning and at night, they play instruments, I encourage showers or long baths as a reset, we use massage with my oldest who has the most trouble with bed, I'm sure there are other things I'm not thinking of. I wonder if there's some specific component that should be tweaked or added to? OT- My son, in many ways the "easiest" kid I have also has the most overt and diagnosable symptoms. He is a very resistant eater and we have gone back and forth over OT since he was a baby. Our doctor thinks it's unnecessary because he takes vitamins. I think that's nonsense. The kid eats three foods guys. Three. We have finally pursued OT on our own and he starts next week. Grandma does help a tiny amount but she never has all four on her own. She is younger and has hiked the AT. She's physically able but finds them overwhelming. I get it. We have often considered hiring help but they have what I guess I would call moderate separation anxiety. There have been times when leaving them (even to take a nap in my own house) felt impossible but right now they function fairly well (daughter even goes to a study center on her own two days a week) when I'm not there. Separation is not relaxed or easy, but it's happening. As far as our days being "open -ended" they are not. I think I didn't explain that well. We have a visual schedule and a morning meeting where we discuss the days events and highlight anything different. Their instrument, chores, school schedule has been the same for years. However, in any day there is gap time. We schedule by the half hour but they need some of that time to be designated for play. When they get going they play really well and it's healthy and good. I will not give that up. But making room for that play time requires a certain level of self-determination. I have sometimes put on the schedule "10:00 - Legos" or something but that doesn't always work and it's not always best. I think they need to pursue their own interests and think of things for themselves even if it's rocky. I'm guessing you agree but were picturing more of a day-long drift.

I have never posted on the learning challenges board but lately the intensity in our house has jumped through the roof and I'm putting a lot of things together. We have four children. None are autistic but ALL show varying degrees of SPD behavior. I have two who are sensory seeking and two who are highly sensitive. My 5 year old is starting OT for resistant eating next week and I'm looking forward to working on that specific issue but my question really has to do with the overall household dynamic, the mood or rhythm of our days. We have a longstanding homeschool structure. I have a third grader, 2nd grader, one in K and an 11 month old baby. Activities, family meals, etc... are all predictable. We have major problems with transitions and times throughout the day that are unstructured or open-ended. The kids are live wires and scream and cry continually many days. School is often a calm bright spot though for my oldest DD it can be a little fraught if something different is introduced. They have no attention problems and work well above grade level so learning itself is not stressful. Its just EVERYTHING else. I'm wondering what has helped families where this has been the general dynamic. Bedtime is tough for 3 out of 4 (the other, bless him, is like an old man and puts himself to bed with a cup of tea and a couple of crosswords), transitions are tough, eating at all is tough. Ugh. I know that this sounds grim and in many ways that's inaccurate. Sometimes we are an interesting, artistic, loving, thoughtful family. It's the margins. And there are a lot of margins.

fralala- Yes! Learning to face meltdowns with calm confidence and to resist the (very very strong) urge to avoid them whenever possible has changed my life. All of my children are volatile and it does them no favors if I structure our lives so they're always getting what they want. As many probably already know it's impossible to avoid meltdowns sometimes anyway and letting go of the need to placate or sidestep has been really freeing for me. In a way it has helped me to feel less guilty and responsible for her meltdowns.

We switched from SM to BA last spring so we've started 3B this fall. I have an 8 and a 5 year old. Both of my children are perfectionists and I handle this differently for each of them depending on age. My older daughter needs work to be sequential and she needs to cover every base. She sometimes gets frustrated and melts down but in her specific case that's how it goes. When she melts down on a Monday she almost always bounces back and works like a trooper on Tuesday. She has many of the stereotypical gifted sensitivities and personality traits so meltdowns are part of the territory no matter what we're doing. My son loves math more than anything and is very even tempered. He understands the work intuitively and I've never really found a math concept he doesn't seem to know before I've taught it. We allow him to work on whatever seems interesting. He sometimes does the same work as his sister or other times jumps ahead 50 pages. I am ok with this pattern because A) I allowed his sister to work this way at his age and she's fine and B) there really isn't anything in the book he doesn't understand already. As someone above mentioned, BA is largely a maturity thing and while it's been a perfect fit for my son as we use it I really think it would be too much if I tried to force consistency.

This post is very interesting. I have two older children who play strings. DD7 started violin at 5 and her younger brother started cello at 3.5. He's now four and is flying through Suzuki Book 1. My third child, also a boy, is 2.5 now and desperately wants to play an instrument like his older siblings but I have been putting him off. Like all parents I'm learning as I go along to a certain degree and I have hesitated to start him because of what I know of his personality. Like the OP I am not draconian about the quality of daily practice when they're really little and though she was initially enthusiastic my DD went through a phase early on where just holding the violin and doing a few bow exercises was success. My son on the other hand is voraciously academic and has always practiced cello for long periods of time unbidden. The reason I have held off with DS2 is that his personality is much more like my daughter's and I suspect that we would have a honeymoon period of intense and productive interest followed by resistance. I have no experience letting a child quit at an early age and then coming back so I worry that we might squander the capital of that early period during a time when there was still a couple years before I felt comfortable enforcing daily practice. Somehow there's a difference between pushing five year old to pick up an instrument and doing the same with a two year old.

My seven year old daughter has never been the kind of gifted kid who likes to binge on one topic at a time. Her younger brother will rip through a Beast Academy guide in a couple hours or spend months talking our ear off about The Boxcar Children but she has always had broader and more age-typical interests. Until now. She is obsessed with Percy Jackson and anything to do with Greek Mythology. At first I was pleased because despite a high school reading level and excellent comprehension she has never been much of a reader. I'm not really overly concerned now but I'm curious to see if this is a jumping off point for more reading or a fling that will die when her interest wanes. Have any of you had kids who read the same book five or six times in a row and refused to read anything else? Did they move on or was their interest in reading tied specifically to that subject? I ordered her D'Aulairs' Book of Greek Myths so we'll see if that can be a bridge.

Taking note as number four is due right before Christmas. There's a natural break for holidays after baby but I'm hoping I can maintain momentum through the fall. I had a rough first and half of second trimester but feel ready to go back now. I know from experience though that I'll feel soo much better in the weeks after delivery than I do now.

I have Miquon Orange and find it to be kind of odd. Anyone else feel this way?

My four year old started Suzuk cello six months ago. He was similar, picking out his older sister's Suzuki violin pieces on our piano and paying close attention at recitals, etc... The difference is that he asked. He had been talking about playing cello since he was 2 and we made him wait until 4. Even though he's very motivated it has been a different experience than starting my daughter at age 5. He loves it and I don't regret the decision but the trajectory of learning has been different. Everyone says boys fine motor skills are not as developed early on as girls and this is true of him. He picked up reading music without difficulty but it's hard for him to move his hands quickly, accurately and firmly enough to make his 1/16 size cello sound like the CD. He doesn't seem frustrated by this and I can see that he's learning a lot about technique so I feel that even though he's handicapped a little by limitations in dexterity. With all that said though I don't think I would have started this year if he hadn't asked. Next year, yes, but somehow forcing a four year old to practice when he could be playing seems a little less fair than pushing a five year old to do the same. Make sense?

My four year old will finish Singapore 1B in the first few weeks of school (we start in September) and I'm looking for something to follow. I'd rather he didn't just move on to 2A because his sister is currently doing 2 and I think she would feel like she was behind if he were in the same year (she's not, she's a year ahead but I'm sure some of you can relate.) I'm looking for something fairly structured because that's his style so another curriculum rather than a "relaxed math" approach. We do lots of relaxed math games, etc... in daily life but he'll want a math workbook to do while his sister works in Singapore. Really wish Beast Academy had the earlier primary grades because I think a first grade Beast would be perfect for him. Lots of review but different strengths than Singapore. Not an option though so anyone out there have suggestions for us? It doesn't have to be perfect! Just something to fill a gap.

You've gotten excellent responses here and it sounds like you see your way ahead. A note of encouragement: I have a daughter (six) who plays Violin and a son (4) who plays cello; both children have grown musically through playing piano "on the side." There have been many times when my draughter has had a breakthrough with her Suzuki repertoire because she worked it out on the piano first. Like some others I'd advocate a break from violin and focus on piano for the moment. The time on the piano will pay dividends on strings and you won't risk bad habits.

I've not posted in a while but I wondered if people could chime in and give me a little help/encouragement. DS3 has been reading since he was 2.5 and now reads on a 4th grade level; he's similarly advanced in math. His sister, 6 is also very bright but learned things at a more conventional age. I understand the need to challenge bright children and make sure they both have a home environment that provides lots of opportunities for independent learning. Beyond that I'm a little torn. DS loves structured, school-type actitivites and has been tagging along with his older sister's (accelerated) school work. A year ago when his first Singapore book came in the mail he sat down and did 86 pages in one go. His fingers ached and he was exhausted when he finally quit. As many of you with similar kids have probably guessed he can be hot and cold and doesn't always work with such passion. My question is how much to encourage consistent work and how much to let him continue on and off as he gets older. He's almost four and by the time my daughter was 4 she was doing a few small things daily... I just want to be extremely careful that he retains a joy in learning and doesn't burn out. My (tested gifted) husband was homeschooled and had a lot of structured, disciplined work at a young age and thrived so he feels like we're being a little touchy feely and don't need to worry so much about crushing his spirit. Thoughts?

PS- Really excited to attend the Well-Trained Mind online conference!

I was there for the whole conference and thought attendance did seem a bit down. I'm a "younger" mom, 32 yrs. with little kids and I wonder if there's a kind of sea change going on in the homeschooling world that might account for this. It seems to me like a lot of women in the generation just ahead of me homeschool with the explicit purpose of teaching their children in a Christian environment. While my faith is important to me I don't think I'd give it as my reason for homeschooling because I feel that I have quality, Christian options locally. I KNOW not everyone does but hear me out. I homeschool because I want to give my children a BETTER education than they could get in any school, Christian or otherwise. I find that I meet more and more Christian parents who feel the same way. With that in mind, the Cinci conference (this is my 3rd year attending) and others do not seem very academically focused to me. This year when I printed the list of speakers and session topics (as soon as it was available) I found that there were few I wanted to attend. I still think it's a great place to shop but I so wish there was less focus on Christian parenting, relationships, marriage, talks selling a particular product, etc... and more meat and potatoes academic help in the content. My church hold's a Women's Conference annually and I could easily copy and paste much of the content from the Cinci line-up into the brochure. Christian character IS important, but I attend the conference for academic inspiration and support. Intrinsically related? Yes. However...

I have the same question! I came home from a Homeschool Conference last night with Singapore Essentials A and my barely three year old has blown through 56 lessons in the seven or so waking hours since I pulled in the driveway. I knew Essentials A would be very easy for him but this is his first introduction to structured work and I wasn't sure how motivated he would be (obviously I still don't know how much he'll want to do long term.) I've accelerated my daughter vertically this past year and am now trying to slow down and spread out horizontally. She's 5 and working at or beyond 2nd grade in every subject and while I know that's not nearly as accelerated as some kids on this forum I've been doing a lot of thinking and would like to try and slow things down and spread out. I think mastery is important so I'm not only concerned with whether or not they can get the right answer but in how they work through a problem which in her case is going to require some extra work with Miquon, etc... Somehow skipping a child ahead seems simpler to me than pursuing "more" horizontally. Trying now to work at understanding what that's going to look like. I don't want a 14 year old high school graduate. We're adding foreign language (Japanese) and more advanced map work as we segue into what I'm calling 1st grade in a couple of weeks so I'm hoping that starts to soak up some of their interest. Still wondering if I should order 1A though as there is a point at which the child's just not challenged at all.

I've heard Gallagher speak on this subject and remember her recommending William and Mary's curriculum and a few other things. When I started to dig up the resources she mentioned I found them to be dated. I'm the type that likes curriculum to be a little "slick." Maybe a little professional. Gallagher's recommendations (for example, science c. 1975) seemed a little impracticable. With that said, I think the type of "problem-based" exercises RFWP has on offer could be done oneself and adapted for age. For example, I intend to study American History with my 1st grader this year and we will most likely work/talk through several "problem-based" scenarios linked to our history reading and modeled on Gallagher's RFWP offerings.

DD5 started Suzuki violin about six weeks ago and we love it. My question is about teachers. We had three teacher options when we started looking: a local music school with a $3500 price tag and two private teachers. We jumped on the waiting lists for both private teachers but after communicating at length with each of them we discovered that "Teacher A" had a three-year wait list. We wanted to start now so when an open lesson materialized with "Teacher B" we took it. TB seems attentive to DDs technique and is moving thoughtfully through the material. I have felt well-prepared to coach at home. BUT, though I've never played violin I've taken many lessons in other things (I was an over-scheduled 80s baby) and I can tell that TB is a very good but maybe not Great teacher. My question is this: how much does it matter? I think that TB will teach my daughter well but both my husband and I still suspect that Teacher A would be the better option were she available. Should we stay on her waiting list? Is that rude to TB? Would it be hard for DD to switch teachers in a couple of years if she has established a good relationship with TB? Am I over thinking this?

Although, when talking about colonialism I asked them how they would like it if someone came and built a house in our backyard without asking. "That would be great!" my daughter (the extrovert) said. Her brother's response: "No, that would be terrible, we would have nowhere to play and then what if they decided they wanted our house too. Where would we live?!" He gets it. Ha!

I've spent some time thinking and planning this week and I think I've put together a literature-based American history curriculum that will meet our needs and challenge my kids without overtaxing their hearts. We enjoyed Pocahontas and the Strangers but it raised questions about colonialism, war, death and even disease that I can see she (and especially her younger brother) would engage much more deeply a few years from now. As many have pointed out, it's one thing to do math (or grammar or science) that is ahead of your years and quite another to synthesize the many disparate parts that come together in "social studies." In the end Sonlight wasn't really going to work for us anyway. We satisfy Bible study elsewhere and I didn't want to use their Language Arts which would leave a large portion of that pricey core unused. I tend to geek out about things for a minute and then sometimes realize how wrong it would be for my circumstances (I spent half of today daydreaming about lifting the roof off of our house and adding a fourth bedroom.) My kids are the kind who will LOVE History Pockets so we're going to get those to supplement all the reading and maybe the Scholastic interactive maps too. I usually buy curriculum at a conference (if it's cheaper) so I've been researching ahead of time. Glad I got this whole thing out of my system now because Sarita of Sonlight is one of the speakers and it's hard not to be drawn in when you talk to believers in person.

Thank you Binip and Dmmetler for you comments on giftedness. I was a bright child who grew up very aware that I was smarter than the other kids at school and I can't say that it did wonders for my humility or work ethic for that matter. My desire to homeschool hinges largely on the hope that I can raise children who work hard a learn for the sake of character development rather than pride. I never learned to apply myself because it simply wasn't necessary and though I don't want to push my poor little five year old's nose to the grindstone too much I do want to gently show her that careful, considered work is valuable. I know she'll notice all too soon that she's brighter than many of her peers but I don't want her to think that that's the most important thing about her. Anyway... We have Story of the World and have done about 1/3 of the first book and she just HATED it. I've never heard of anyone else who has had this experience with SOTW so I feel sheepish admitting it but it just didn't work for us. I'm willing to push when healthy and necessary (we practice violin every day or bust) but it just didn't seem needful to force history her kindergarten year if it wasn't going well. I got about half of the Sonlight Core D books from the library to look over and we've started reading Pocahontas and the Strangers to see how it goes. All of the books seem to be very close to where we're working right now so I'm trying to figure out how it will be too much. We read aloud about 45 minutes per day now so I know the volume will be ok. Content looks ok too? These appear to be solidly "elementary" rather than young adult novels. Does the "hardness" come in through the discussion questions or writing assignments? She definitely does not have the writing skills of a 3rd or 4th grader so I was thinking I would adapt that portion and do oral reports (a la Classical Conversations) and maybe only assign some of them. I DO NOT want to burn her out and I've been thinking maybe I should forget US History and do an easier Core next year if D is too much. Kind of falling in love with Sonlight at the moment.

lamppost- I've thought about doing that. I could use the themes covered in Core D but choose my own books. I have a close friend whose mother used Sonlight with her children and she LOVED it so I was taking her word for it about some of the books. I don't know if they're the ones I would pick though so it might work well to use the library and choose my own novels.