In addition to the red comments above, thank you also for the reminder that when they review the findings that I don't have to sign or agree to anything that day. I am sure I will need time to process everything. We have the speech IEP, but that is pretty straight forward. I don't know what recommendations to expect after their testing.

Thank you. Explaining your son's working and testing in phonemic awareness helps me understand better as well as something OhE said about her son's struggle after all the Barton work as well. I have Overcoming Dyslexia on my bookshelf. I started it this fall and don't remember why I didn't get it finished. November and December were crazy months and then in January I started working my way through The Mislabeled Child and The Dyslexic Advantage. I am almost done with those and should go back to Overcoming Dyslexia again (unless the psych results how something very different than I am anticipating). I don't think that DD's DIBLES scores were saved from K, but I could be wrong. They were given in the classroom and not in speech therapy. I know that the teacher from last year had them from May and the psych at least had that for reference as well as some other comparisons. Thanks for the tips. I am familiar with decoding and fluency and know DD is way below where she should be in both areas. The initial reading test the psych did, she only tested in the 15th percentile in the oral reading. I don't know the result on all other areas tested yet.

Thanks. Her reading curriculum in in need of change or more review before moving forward. While I think AAR is a great program, DD is struggling through level 2 right now. This is with having done LOE A, B, and 1/2 of C between AAR 1 and AAR 2. I have read how great Barton is for so many and the cost of that sounds more appealing than a tutor cost for our budget at the moment. DD needs something different than what we are currently doing. I know I can come up with more review or similar type words to practice where she needs it, but frankly, I am tired and would do better not having to come up with all of that right now. It sounds like Barton has all the extras already done on their tutor website if you need them. I know that Pen had good results with High Noon, but I don't know if that would be the right fit for DD or not and am scared of wasting more time if I head in the wrong direction. I should keep in mind that I could contact Susan Barton after the testing to find out if Barton is indeed a good fit for DD.

You didn't miss it. I didn't think to mention it. She has been in speech for articulation. I specifically asked the SLP about receptive and expressive language because I saw that on the Barton website and didn't fully understand what they were to know for certain if we were dealing with either language issue. She explained them some and what I would be seeing if they were problems and also said that she is certain without even needing to test that DD does not have expressive or receptive language delays (she has been working with DD for 3.5 years). She ran through one area of the language test for the sake of the school psych, but didn't do all of it. If the school psych needs more than that test and her explanation of how DD is with language, then she'll run more of the test.

Thank you. I'll reply more later today when I have a chance. To answer a few questions though, yes, DD did pass the Barton screening last fall. We had done the level 1 post test as well, but after talking with Susan Barton about it, she had recommended holding off purchasing Barton until we could get an evaluation and make sure it was the right fit for DD. I'll try to add/explain more later today.

My concern is not so much that DD gets a diagnosis, but that I get the right information to make a correct decision about what she needs next with reading curriculum or what areas are weak to focus on before moving forward with reading. I was wondering if someone could need more work in phonological processing or phonemic awareness (like with Barton 1 for example), but it now show up on the CTOPP if they actually need that extra work. I want to be informed and understand enough in the different areas they are testing to be able to ask the right questions when the psych goes over the results with me. I may be over analyzing and borrowing trouble while waiting for all results and need to stop thinking about it. Often I don't have a lot of time to read and research until my kids are in bed and know that researching late at night when tired it takes me more time to wrap my head around different areas than it does if I read about it during the day.

Please help me understand the CTOPP more. We are currently undergoing an eval with the local school psychologist and are nearing the end of the eval. The SLP we see at the school told me today that the school does have the CTOPP-2 (she didn't know until recently that the school had it as the SLP that works with the older kids is normally the one to administer the test). She finished a different phonological processing test today that is not as comprehensive as the CTOPP. She is going to read through the CTOPP tomorrow and get back to me later in the week about scheduling a time to do the CTOPP (assuming it covers more than the phonological processing she already did). I've read the basic description of the CTOPP 2 on Pro-ed and another website that sells it and read various threads about it on here in relation to dyslexia testing. I've also read various comments on here about remediating to the point of the results not showing on the CTOPP. I am trying to wrap my head around this before I meet with the school psych to go over testing (most likely next week since we will finish the rest of the testing by next Monday). How do you know if a child has had enough remediation or intervention to test okay on the CTOPP or not but still struggle with phonological processing? For example, DD8 has had speech therapy for 3.5 years at the PS. I know that during that time, there were a couple sounds that she had a hard time hearing the difference. We have spent countless hours between school ST and home practice with hearing the sounds (and syllables) in words correctly and articulating correctly. On top of that, she spent one year in PS in a reading class that worked intensively on phonological and phonemic awareness (the lowest reading level class for K) and was also pulled out of class for extra practice on rapid naming and DIBLES nonsense words practice, the following start of the school year did AAR Pre-level and the fall after that we ran through LOE Foundations A after we had done AAR 1 to make sure her phonemic awareness was good. Granted the last two years, we did very little with nonsense words which I know can impact it for some kids. I guess what my question boils down to, can a child who has gone through all that work on phonological and phonemic awareness test in an average range on the CTOPP 2 but still have struggles with phonological processing?

Following. I was looking at both of these as well. I have also been debating on Expedition Earth either on it's own or somehow combined with MFW ECC (although that sounds like too much).

I had planned on just ordering the 1st level to start. Is it better to order level 1 and 2 at the same time?

Thanks for sharing this. I have enjoyed reading it and look forward to learning more. :)

So the SLP started on the phonological processing test today. She didn't get it finished because DD was getting so tired during the test (she started yawning and at one point put her head on the table which is not normal for her during the ST sessions). SLP said she could tell it was wearing her out so she stopped and will finish next week during our speech therapy session. I forgot to ask her the name of the test. She did mention that on a few of the questions that DD had to think really hard to come up with an answer...on those two she mentioned, she eventually came up with the right answer though. I know at one point the SLP had mentioned that when trying to think of a rhyming word that she gave DD a hint about looking at alphabet letters on the wall for ideas. I don't know how much of an impact that had on her answers.

Barton talks about not selling spare parts for orders. Is that only if you buy a used Barton that they won't sell missing parts? If you've ordered the level from them in the past, do they allow you to order any tiles for any level previously purchased from them in the future?

Thanks. That makes sense about the tiles. I want to have the option of being able to resell levels, but at the moment think that DD5 may need it as well (but she is nowhere ready for Barton). I like the idea of being able to tutor others after we have gone through it, but want the option of being able to resell if that ends up not being the right route for us.

They have not done the CTOPP yet. The SLP we see for speech has told me that the school does not have the CTOPP (the previous school she worked for did have the CTOPP). The SLP mentioned finding a test that is for ages 4-8 that included phonological processing. I should hear more about it today when we see her. I do not know the name of the test. She did tell me that the psych may have more tests that she isn't aware of that may also address phonological processing (I was very pointed in making sure they knew that was a concern of mine that I would like tested). He was going to email me at some point to figure out when to meet this week. I wouldn't be surprised if DD is labeled with dyslexia, dysgraphia, and ADHD combined. I imagine there is some working memory and/or processing speed impacting some of it as well, but I don't have any feel for the extent of that. I am working my way through the Eides' books right now and also have Sally Shawitz book. She did pass the Barton pre-test. Because we have done work with AAR (levels - pre, 1, and part of 2) and LOE Foundations (2.5 levels), Susan had sent me the post tests to check placement this past fall. DD had struggled through level 1 posttest which had surprised me. I thought maybe she could do it if she hadn't been distracted by her sister a few times. However, since then, she has asked questions about which sounds were in certain words and having a hard time hearing the difference between similar sounds (they were sounds that have been worked on in speech so she was aware of the difference and able to articulate the difference at that point in time) and a couple times messed up rhyming that made me think she has more phonemic awareness or phonological awareness issues going on than I initially realized. She took longer than most kids to be able to hear the correct amount of sounds in a word, took a long time to understand rhyming, struggled through rapid letter naming and nonsense words when in PS, and understands phonics in isolation but can't always apply them to words, and more. We have already gone through VT and had a recent follow up and her vision is doing fine still so I know that's not tripping her up anymore (outside of reversal struggles).

While DD8 is still undergoing testing, I have seen enough and read enough of other materials that my gut is telling me it's time to order Barton. Is there is any reason I should consider holding off until the testing is finished? The current testing is through the local school and a private eval initial appointment isn't for a few months yet. The school psych wants to run 8 different tests or subtests, but we have only completed 2 of them so far and I haven't heard yet how many he hopes to get through this week (it took 3 meetings that were 1-2 hours each to get through the first 2 tests because the reading, writing, and spelling were so hard for DD, but she got through the math and logic/puzzles much easier/quicker). Also, when ordering level 1, should I order extra tiles for that level? I know the other levels you want to order extra, but I wasn't sure if it really mattered for level 1. They appear to be blank colored tiles that I could easily substitute with blank math tiles.

I know that phonological awareness isn't the same as phonemic awareness, but I checked out a book from the library this week that may interest you. The book is The Intensive Phonological Awareness Program by C. Melanie Schuele and Naomi D. Murphy. The forward is done by Louisa C. Moats and she highly recommends this program. Included in it are twelve weeks of lessons and a CD to print activities. It includes multisensory activities. It starts with rhyming but does eventually get into having student feel their mouths, use mirrors, and notice other differences with similar sounding phonemes. You can see some of the book as a preview on Amazon. I haven't finished reading through it, but so far find it interesting. That said, I love hearing others ideas and learning from all of you. The only other programs I have used that incorporate phonological or phonemic awareness are AAR Pre-reading and LOE Foundations A which I know aren't enough for all kids and I don't think my 5 yr old is read for either. I still feel new to this area.

I would read it! I am close to pulling the trigger to purchase Barton, but was waiting while we finish up testing to make sure it will be the right fit. I would love a resource like that.

I'll ask about getting a report for access to Bookshare, Learning Ally, or other programs. I didn't think of that before. Also, the psych asked DD's speech therapist to give her a language test. I specifically asked her about CTOPP and the school does NOT have that test. She used to work for a different school and administered that test at the old school so she is familiar with it. I told her I was concerned about phonological processing and she was going to search and see what tests they had available to them. We will see her today for speech and she'll let me know what she was able to find or get access to. It is a small school district with limited funds, but I know once in a while she has been able to borrow a test from a different school district. I would be very surprised if she qualified for OT. I'm waiting for a call back from our doctor's office regarding a referral.

Thank you. They haven't had me sign the consent to eval form yet (I know what you're talking about though as I've signed it for speech in the past). I think that he was going to have that for me today but DD woke up sick. I haven't talked to him about OT yet so am not sure what he is thinking about this (I brought up handwriting struggles and he mentioned wanting to test for that with the other areas, but am not sure what he has in mind yet). She does have some issues that an OT would help with, but I am expecting we may need to go private with that. He mentioned on Wednesday that he thought we should go ahead and look at handwriting and math while we were already testing. I haven't talked to him about ADHD as I didn't realize a school psych could even diagnose it. We have an appointment the end of April for a private evaluation (and the only other option is a few hours away no sooner than March/April), but I wanted to get some testing done to make sure we got started in the right direction and that she tested okay to start Barton. We had a follow-up with the COVD doc yesterday and her eyes are still doing great (she did VT over a year ago) so that was good to rule out. When she read with the school psych, her reading tested in the 15th percentile compared to other kids her age and comprehension was in the 5th percentile, but that was because she had a hard time reading the words for the comprehension questions. He even said he thought her comprehension would be okay if he had asked her the questions vs her reading them based on other interactions with her. I think the school Psych seeing that along with other information I provided him about curriculum that we have used along with some other information I turned into him and he reviewed that morning (plus a teacher there vouching for me that I knew what I was talking about) is what removed his hesitation on doing a full evaluation.

Just to update and ask a new, but related question... DD did some reading testing with the local school psychologist yesterday. Afterwards he agreed with me that further testing should be done. We are going in tomorrow for more testing. I forgot to ask him, but from what he said is on the test, I think it is part of the WISC. I know that I need to ask him about the CTOPP or other phonological processing test. Are there other things I should ask about in our meeting tomorrow?

I am curious as well. I have been using RS, but keep debating adding in CLE for more review. I am afraid it will be overkill though or too much and not get done.

My DH would be considered "blue collar" as well. I used to have a "white collar" job. Local homeschoolers have a variety of both blue and white collar jobs. My own family has a mix of the two. I don't see why that has any relevance to homeschooling or being on this forum.

It can't be done just from the workbooks if you plan on covering all material in the teacher's manual. It is very teacher intensive as well. Also, I had a child who could read enough of the words/sentences to match them to the pictures without being able to correctly read the entire sentence. So in her case, I had to have her read out loud everything she did on the workbooks to make sure she actually could correctly read the material even if she answered all questions correctly.

Thanks, Pen. That makes sense. DD also does better with shorter lessons and being able to move as well. She likes sitting on a exercise ball when doing reading/decoding when possible or even when practicing math facts. I am struggling with what to do now. I may order the high noon set of readers you mentioned previously to use while at figure it out. I spoke with Susan Barton today about the level 1 posttest. From what I described, she thought I should focus on getting the ADHD/ADD behavior under better management/control before even trying a different reading program. I do keep lessons short or she fatigues and needs to move around to focus longer and often redirect her, but I have been so focused on the reading and not ADHD symptoms that I am struggling with what to do next. Susan shared what type of professionals are good at both diagnosing and offering treatment options (vs only drugs as an option), but I am feeling like a I am treading new water now. She suggested stopping reading practice for the time being and focusing on other subjects that engage her to further her education while a I seek an evaluation and treatment for her. In all honesty, the thought of stopping reading lessons even temporarily sort of scares me with the regression she had after summer break since I didn't make her keep practicing. She does love games though and had fun with some reading games we did recently so am trying to decide if that would be a good option or what else to do as I try to sort this out.

Thank you. That is helpful to know.