The old CLE is very hard and moves fast. It made a great review for my "gifted" child...but will NOT work as an introductory text. The workbook on word problems 903? was excellent if you like challenging puzzles :-)

A lot of parents have done the following when they have placed a student too high in Saxon. Just redo the early lessons twice or even 3 times, until the student starts getting most of them right. If the book is covering a new concept the student has not covered yet, and the book and DIVE doesn't bother to explain it, it's pretty easy to find something online to cover it, or in a yard sale book. Look for books called "Basic College Mathematics". They are remedial math books used by junior colleges that start with a review of addition. The odd answers are in the back of 7/6 right? and you have the answer key to all the answers? You will have this book as backup to use if the is any area the 8/7 doesn't fix by simply doing a lesson more than once. Since you have all the best stuff for 8/7 I'd start with it and see what happens. At about lesson 5 see how he is doing. If he is making too many mistakes or just working slowly and seeming frustrated, start the book over. Then reevaluate how is doing after completing lesson 5 the second time. If he is working slowly again by lesson 10, start over from lesson 5 or lesson 1. Reviewing old lessons is great for days you don't have time to teach. Another idea is to make a list of tricky problems as you move through the book, and keep it handy for a bad day when you don't have time to teach.

Many, many students, especially those who have recently been pulled out of PS, are not ready to use Saxon at grade level, but will do great with it at a lower level and at a slower pace. My 10 year old used Algebra 1. I'm fully aware some students can work above grade level in Saxon. I'm just pointing out that SOME students are struggling with Saxon, because they have been place too high, and that placement in a spiral curriculum often needs to be one level lower, than one that presents one topic at a time. Even as an advanced student I noticed my "gifted" child had to work one level lower in Saxon than he did other textbooks. In the short run, a struggling student will feel a sense of ease dropping Saxon, for a one topic at a time, curriculum, but often by a year later, the sense of frustration comes back, if the student didn't retain the material. Many struggling students, with parents who expect the child to work on their own, do great with Saxon, if they don't try to stay on grade level, and settle for only completing through Algebra 1 or 2. I've repeatedly seen struggling students from multiple families placed below grade level in Saxon, and soon have their yearly standardized test scores improve, because for the first time they were retaining the materiel and consistently getting math done even when the parent was busy.

Have any of you used Write Like Hemingway. It suggests using it with The Complete Short Stories of Hemingway. Are there any good study guides for the short stories? I'm told the short stories are the best examples of his writing, rather than the novels? I understand many here don't like Hemingway's world view and neither do I, but I appreciate the man's minimalist style of writing and would like to combine it with Writing Tools http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=78&aid=103943 and Ben Franklin's technique of studying good writers.

I said this same 2 hour thing in another thread last week :-0 I don't see how most classes can be cut back, and still have a student test well. What my children did, was skip all the tests, and just found out the least they needed to know, to excell at the junior college. We were pretty shocked to see how little they needed to prepare for classes in comparison to the tests. The junior college only used placements tests in English and math. Many of the science and social sciences only required basic math and English skills, not a background in the material to be covered in the course.

When I was in high school we took 3 years to cover the equivalent of the mandatory chapters of Henle. I forget which chapter starts the part that is not necessary to complete before moving on to book 2.

I followed the link to AO from another thread and saw the suggestion for the book The Great Astronomers http://www.amazon.com/Great-Astronomers-Robert-Stawell-Ball/dp/1425087566/ref=reader_auth_dp#reader_1425087566 I always thought people were talking about Alpha Omega when mentioning AO :-0 Are there any study guides for this book? Has anyone used it?

Yup! I received the same shock when one of my children took "College Algebra" and only did the easiest parts of the exact same Aufmann Intermediate Algebra text we had finished a year before. I think this is typical.

Sigh! No I didn't make my children study 12 hours a day, and the college they attended didn't care about credits, SATs or AP or anything but their own placement tests, which my children did VERY well on. This has gotten too off topic, so I'm choosing not to defend my statements, as I don't think we are having productive conversation at this point and I think we are all way to busy to engage in unproductive posting. I need to search the forum for answers to my own questions on self-educating myself :-)

I just purchased a second edition Saxon Algebra 2 (second edition) for $5.00. I got the solution manual for $5.00 from another vendor. Between the solution manual and the odd answers in the back of the textbook, I have answers to everything but the even practice problems. I spent less than $18.00. I don't think it is fair to judge any high school curriculum by the elementary books. parents have so many other options to teach with when they are proficient teachers of a subject, compared to when they are a bit rusty or are expecting the the student to self-teach. Also elementary students are a different type of learner as TWTM is so quick to point out. My youngest child was quite gifted in the maths, so I never used any elementary materials for math. My 10 year old started Algebra 1 back in the stone ages of homeschooling, when there were fewer options. I doubt I would use Saxon with an average elementary student, with all the choices available now. But this is the High school board and we are talking about high school and self-education. And the OP is high school age, precocious and self-directed, but of fairly average math ability, and expected to self-teach with an affordable curriculum and required to be successful in a measurable way??? I should have said 2 hours to be grade level proficient at the HIGH SCHOOL level, especially anything that will be tested on the SAT, PSAT, ACT and AP exams. As most parents of highschool students soon realize and panic, is that there isn't enough time to devote to keeping the average student testable ready in all subjects. Hard choices need to be made. For parents who are planning on junior college enrollment the choices are easier. Get copies of the freshman books and see what needs to be prepared for, breathe a sigh of relief and adjust. If looking at the big tests for the 4 year colleges...well...it's down right depressing. The TIME required to prep for these tests is BRUTAL. Saxon Geometry is new. It wasn't out when I was homeschooling my children. I'm assuming it is still recommended to skip it, unless a student isn't going to finish advanced math?? LuvingLife, My boys graduated years ago, and I am currently wanting to brush up on many of my skills and learn some things they were not interested in, or that we never had time for. I jumped around with a lot of math curriculum, starting with Saxon and ending with it. One child was gifted, one was precocious and self-directed, but average. I had to learn math right along with them as I never learned it properly when a student myself. I have just restarted Saxon Algebra 2 for my review. I placed myself low and am aiming for speed and accuracy. The books were cheap (older edition) and answer keys and solution manuals are easy to get. I'm very busy right now and not home much. I have ripped my book apart and just carry 1 lesson around with me and pull it out anytime I get stuck waiting somewhere. It beats doing crossword puzzles :-) Lials is almost identical to Aufmann, I think, and more well known in the homeschool community. Does it come with software that generates unlimited problems? My children loved that feature, especially for word problems. When my math hater got serious about math, a few weeks before placement testing, he buckled down for hours a day with the software and accomplished amazing things in a very short time. When he got 5 problems right in a row, he moved on to the next lesson. We kept an assortment of cheap used math textbooks without answer keys, as reference books to look up alternative ways of doing math, when we got stuck. Math was hard for us to learn on our own, but one of my sons and I did make it part way through calculus, before he decided that was as far as he wanted to go without a teacher. I'm hoping to review and make it through that calculus text myself :-) Good luck, whatever you choose! :-) Are you planning on junior college or more rigorous studies?

I believe junior colleges, in some states, have the right to require GEDs and accredited diplomas from UNDERAGE students, who are starting a degree program, as opposed to just having the classes taken while underage, counted as high school. I heard it has to do with things the teachers unions fought for :-0 To prevent families from using junior colleges as a high school. It's easier to fight the GED requirements for older students, starting college at the traditional age.

Most children-if the parent wants them to be proficient, at grade level-need to spend 2 hours a day on math, to accomplish that. To spend less than 2 hours usually means accepting less than proficiency or not reaching calculus/precalculus by 12th grade. Some curriculums don't require a student to become proficient at one level, before moving on to the next, and initially can be more attractive to mom and student, allowing a student to progress to the higher level, without putting in the work. For the average student, it's often better to keep the goal of proficiency, and just give up the goal of calculus by grade 12. Whatever curriculum they use, it's okay to spend more than one year on a level. They will usually test better in college placement tests (although maybe not the PSAT) if they choose proficiency over rushing ahead. I'm all for parents and students only spending 1 hour a day on math. And I'm just pointing out that Saxon is still an option for those parents, if they are willing to have their children work in a book labeled below grade level. Many students don't end out taking the PSAT and just start out at the local junior college. They do NOT need to get past Algebra 1 or 2, and will test quite well, and avoid remedial classes, if they MASTER the lower levels of math. 2 year and even many 4 year schools are constantly placing students in remedial BASIC math, that took trig in high school. I'm not saying Saxon is the only or the best option. I'm just saying it IS an option for the student who wants to do just one hour a day. Just slow down and only do 2 lessons a week and spread the book out over 2 years and be HONEST about the level the student is PROFICIENT at. PROFICIENCY at the higher levels of math requires a large investment of time for the vast majority of students. There is just no getting away from that. Yes...there are the few gifted ones who can reach proficiency at calculus before the end of 12th grade spending an hour or less a day on math...but that is very rare indeed. Grade level proficiency at any skill, takes at least 2 hours a day, whether we are talking about Latin, music, dance, writing or math. Parents and students are often loathe to use below grade level materials and instead choose survey materials instead. Sometimes it's better to just spread out a proficiency curriculum, though, than to use a survey course.

On of my son's took the GED so he could start earning a degree at a junior college, on government grants, while still underage. It was the only way to be able to do all 3 of those things at the same time. Both my boys attended junior college, while underage, as degree seeking students on grants (not loans) from applying for FAFSA. They then had to earn the rest of their tuition. The other son had a diploma from American School. Options for accelerated, low income students are less than, for those students with parents who can pay for college. Neither of my boys has faced any stigma that I know about, but being grown now and living across the country, and I don't hear about everything. My oldest who calls me the most, just talks about how positive people react to his schooling history. They could care less about his high school credentials as long as he has a college degree, and was ambitious and street smart enough to be financially independent at 19, and have managed to graduate with no loans to pay back and enough funds to finance his relocation.

Saxon isn't the only option, but it is a curriculum that can be completed by most students, independently and without supplementation, which it sounds like is your mom's first priority. I mentioned Aufmann mostly because you can get the texts used for $5.00 or less. A mom can call the local junior college, and find out the level of the book used for freshman math, buy it and sees how easy it is. Then if it takes you 2 years to finish Saxon, she won't be panicking, because she can SEE that you will be ready. And now you have another math book to read if you get stuck understanding a Saxon lesson and need an alternative explanation. I love the word problems as a supplement to Saxon...but they are not necessary. Not at all. The good thing about Saxon was that it was designed to be completed, one lesson at a time in order, without a teacher picking and choosing to use what (s)he wants to teach from it. For many students the problem is that they are often working from a book that is too hard for them, and then trying to complete that-too challenging book-in a rush in just one year, without the parent devoting enough of the schedule, to it. If you place yourself low enough in Saxon and either devote 2 hours a day to math, or spread it out for 1 1/2- 2 years at one hour a day, you should do fine, steadfastly working one problem at a time. Boring yes, but safe and predictable, and a pretty sure thing. No properly placed, properly paced student has ever died from using Saxon :-)

The spiral/integrated method requires a student to be working at a lower level. Most students and parents want to place the student at the highest level possible. Saxon immediately halts a struggling student, showing their true deficiencies. Many math students need to be working below grade level, and need to repeat lessons, if the book moves too fast for them, when using the spiral/integrated method. Completing Saxon algebra 1 will prepare a student for "College Algebra" at most junior colleges and provide all the math necessary for most junior college science classes. Many families would do well to stick with Saxon as the spine, SLOOOOOW DOWN, and add some enrichment. A student who spreads Saxon 1 and 2 out over 4 years will be well prepared for most 4 year program schools. They will be ready for statistics or college algebra, and that is all most 4 year schools require for many degrees. The Aufmann textbooks are the ones used at many junior colleges for remedial math and the ones the placement tests are based on. Old editions can be purchased dirt cheap to get an idea of what should be covered. Many times the "college algebra" class is only the intermediate algebra book, not the college algebra book, and the hardest problems are skipped and the book not finished. I like the software for these books, as it generates unlimited problems for the word problems. A combination of Saxon and Aufmann math, even just through algebra 1, will produce very high scores on placement tests at a junior college.

Thanks :-) I think I'll order it.

How are the Teaching Company algebra DVDs for a review for mom? They are on sale for $49.95 in the new catalog.